Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(
Discussion
Vaud said:
el stovey said:
WTF. You've been on his Facebook page? What were you looking for?
At a wild guess half the world's media has probably been on it today...Don't you think it's a bit odd, looking at some dead blokes Facebook page? It's some kind of macabre voyeurism. Can we see inside his house or have an interview with his parents or girlfriend ? They must all be sad. Do they have Facebook pages too?
croyde said:
I'd love to be able to fly but a day like that really shows how dreary it would be. I'd much rather do the type of flying that the chaps did in that doco about flying in Indonesia for SusiAir.
Whatever makes you happy but you don't have to fly A320s for german wings, other airlines and fleets are available. My day to day work is nothing like the the roster quoted above. Nobody is leaving my airline to go to Indonesia and fly for SusiAir that's for sure.
Silver993tt said:
I really don't see the facination with being a commercial pilot. It's a hugely regulated industry, spending hours in a tiny capsule called a cockpit and spending hours again at airports which really are places to I want to avoid.
I concure completely.I cannot see the appeal at all.
And the onslaught of cattle class budget airlines over the years has vastly diminished the 'prestige' of being an airline pilot
My Mums friend is a long haul stewardess with British Airways and has been for over 25 years, and she was saying much the same. That air travel is no longer what it was. People used to see it as a luxury and prestigious form of travel, and dress up to go to the airport. Now it's just hoards of tracksuit wearing slobs heading for Malaga on a ticket they paid £39 for.
Asterix said:
LittleEnus said:
Totally agree. Glorified bus drivers.
Sorry mate but that's a dumb statement. Bit weird really to come on a thread and announce how you wouldn't do x job because you think it's boring or whatever. Even if your in-depth knowledge of the myriad of different jobs in commercial aviation is based on going on a flight or better still, your mums mate who is a stewardess.
Still we can't all have exciting jobs.
Edited by el stovey on Thursday 26th March 19:50
LittleEnus said:
Exactly. Commercial pilots are pretty much just that, there is a bit of excitement on take off and again on landing and that's it.
My dad was a pilot all his life for the RAF and then Laker's, then SIA. It was his statement.
So many people regard pilots as if it were the 1950's still- oh he's a pilot. So what? imo its akin to tube/ train/ bus/coach/HGV/ forklift drivers. Albeit with varying levels of training required.
Your dad is playing down his old career and you're using his statement to put down his profession on the Internet. My dad was a pilot all his life for the RAF and then Laker's, then SIA. It was his statement.
So many people regard pilots as if it were the 1950's still- oh he's a pilot. So what? imo its akin to tube/ train/ bus/coach/HGV/ forklift drivers. Albeit with varying levels of training required.
What do you do for a living?
LittleEnus said:
As expected 15 pilot-types don't like that and feel the need to jump in with personal insults.
I genuinely don't want to digress this thread which I have been avidly following. What happened here is shocking but compelling. This could change the world again slightly as we know it.
Eh? You walked in, un prompted and announced pilots were just glorified bus drivers. No wonder people don't like your comments. There was no one saying how awesome they were. Just you arriving and putting down their profession because you felt some perspective was required. Bit weird really. I genuinely don't want to digress this thread which I have been avidly following. What happened here is shocking but compelling. This could change the world again slightly as we know it.
Do you go on other threads and feel the need to put down other people's jobs?
LittleEnus said:
I am NOT putting down pilots, I am just adding perspective.
Of course you are putting down pilots you said they were "glorified bus drivers" Why on earth do you feel the need to "add perspective"? What perspective is required? Nobody was saying being a pilot was an amazing job.
For you to say they are "glorified bus drivers" is clearly a statement made by you to denigrate their profession.
nyxster said:
Clearly if the airline was aware he was suffering long term issues, then there has been a clear failure in duty of care to him and the passengers to put him in a position where he can do harm. He should have been confined to ground duties and no doubt hard questions need to be asked by all airlines of what they can do to manage the risk. A simple call to his bosses from the fiance suggesting all wasn't well might have prevented this.
Great postAs I said earlier, my airline have had suicides from pilots in the past, I also know of it happening with others.
We certainly have a few pilots off with depression and stress at any one time.
Unfortunately, the kind of backwards comments in the press about MH illness will no doubt make people feeling like they might have an issue much less likely to speak up.
Munter said:
I agree. The only stumbling block is putting in place the correct support and monitoring costs money. It makes pilots less efficient in terms of the time they can be flying, and requires people and space to do it. So prices will need to go up to cover the costs. No company wants to put prices up, so unless it forced on airlines, it's not happening.
Correct. Airlines operate with tiny margins, Ryanair flourish because they have the lowest cost base and passengers book based on price. A Mental Health MOT could easily be part of the pilots annual medical. The medical is between the regulator and the crew member not the airline. I doubt airlines will be able or willing to provide the resources to do it themselves.
Would a mental health MOT really pick up these issues though? Presumably a pilot would be unlikely to answer that they felt suicidal.
Would a mental health MOT really pick up these issues though? Presumably a pilot would be unlikely to answer that they felt suicidal.
richardxjr said:
Perhaps there was no plan? Opportunity arose and he just thought 'f
k it'
He wasn't really acting in a rational way was he? There's no reason his plan should be viewed as a well thought out and planned scheme. k it'He certainly could have crashed the aircraft much quicker than he did.
SpeckledJim said:
So someone who isn't there and doesn't know what's going on decides whether to open the door or not?
That REALLY doesn't solve the problem.
It doesn't really matter if a crew member is there or if another pilot is there. If the controls are in front of you, you can crash the aircraft. That REALLY doesn't solve the problem.
Munter said:
Well yes. But if we'd made the call after 9/11 we'd be looking at something ~6 years away based on your time estimate.
We took what was shown to be a bad design and tweeked it. Rather than starting from scratch and having fundamentally better design.
Right but this crash isn't about locks or design of cockpit doors, it's all about mental health. We took what was shown to be a bad design and tweeked it. Rather than starting from scratch and having fundamentally better design.
Munter said:
Ok but the poor design, has led to the effect of someones mental health bringing down a plane. Why should we not look to design that limits the effect of mental health problems on the safety plane?
Unfortunately no door design will stop a suicidal pilot crashing the aircraft. He/she could make the aircraft unflyable in a couple of seconds regardless of who was in the flightdeck as they have access to all the controls and switches.
It's just that in his case the suicidal pilot decided to make it a bit slower for some reason.
If the captain had managed to open the door, or was even in the flight deck, the co pilot would have simply altered his plan and started pulling levers and pressing buttons to speed up the process.
Unless the presence of another person somehow reduces the likelyhood of suicide for some purely psychological reason.
Timmy40 said:
LucreLout said:
BrabusMog said:
What a sweeping statement 
Sorry, but if it kicks off I'd rather rely on Chuck Norris than Nigel from accounts.
I've only had a very slight brush with someone with mental health issues - friend at college who tried to commit suicide. However, you really do not need personal experience to undertand it, just an empathetic personality.
Think of someone who has just broken their leg and cannot walk. If you think they should just get up and get on with things you obviously have no understanding of how the body works.
Now replace leg with brain. If you think someone with a mental health issue, a 'brain break' for want of a better term, should simply be able to snap out of it, then you have absolutely no idea what's going on.
I feel sorry for all involved in this tragedy.
Think of someone who has just broken their leg and cannot walk. If you think they should just get up and get on with things you obviously have no understanding of how the body works.
Now replace leg with brain. If you think someone with a mental health issue, a 'brain break' for want of a better term, should simply be able to snap out of it, then you have absolutely no idea what's going on.
I feel sorry for all involved in this tragedy.
Rude Girl said:
I couldn't agree more. I have spent some time today thinking about the parents of those 16 children on that flight. And I have spent an equal amount of time thinking about the parents of that copilot. I work on the railway (such a 'popular' way to end the pain) and I so regularly hear about how *selfish* suicide victims are. What we forget is that these 'selfish individuals' are actually the victims of an illness or disease. They are not the perpetrators. This poor chap must also have been controlled by his demons.
If the rest of us can't grasp even this small concept, then we as a society have no chance of ever contributing to fixing the problem of mental illness. If all we do is blame the victim, then we drive the victim to hide the illness, and therefore make them (and us) more vulnerable.
It's a tragedy for everyone on that flight, and their families. Including the poor tortured soul who hit the button.
And I agree totally with this.If the rest of us can't grasp even this small concept, then we as a society have no chance of ever contributing to fixing the problem of mental illness. If all we do is blame the victim, then we drive the victim to hide the illness, and therefore make them (and us) more vulnerable.
It's a tragedy for everyone on that flight, and their families. Including the poor tortured soul who hit the button.
eldar said:
Would you have the same view of someone with cancer - Get a grip? Depression is a disease, not a fking lifestyle choice.
Look at this bloke, suffered from depression, didn't get proper help and support, thought he should keep flying and ended up killing loads of people. king lifestyle choice.Encouraging people who are suffering from mental illness to man up or labelling them as evil or trying to get them sacked is just going to increase the likelyhood of this happening again.
I wonder how many pilots going through divorce or some kind of terrible event at home will go into work instead of getting proper help due to media reports about this pilot having a history of mental illness and people calling for those suffering from depression to man up or worse, get the sack.
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