UKIP - The Future - Volume 4
Discussion
Actually the question covered both entering and leaving, including the mechanism of how and if we (HMG) monitor individuals in and out, or not. The issue of internal movement once they are here is tangential to the questions asked, but a reasonable diversion considering the question of whether it mattered.
However the request for civil and constructive comment was steam rollered in a handful of posts, as usual.
Gives up.
However the request for civil and constructive comment was steam rollered in a handful of posts, as usual.
Gives up.
Scuffers said:
when you enter another country, most of them ask you several questions on their entry cards.
eg. Australia's
note the questions:
1) who are you?
2) how did you get here?
3) where are you planning on staying? (including contact details)
4) Are you planning on living here for the next 12 months?
5) Do you have TB?
6) are you a criminal?
7) how long are you planning on staying? (and are you migrating here?)
8) what is your occupation?
9) what nationality are you?
Now, they are far from alone, MOST countries have similar entry forms
then when you go to leave, you fill in another form:
once again, a few sensible questions.
it's not hard is it?
why are we not doing the same?
Ha, Photoshop! No country has the capability to control their borders and immigration, don't be so ridiculous.eg. Australia's
note the questions:
1) who are you?
2) how did you get here?
3) where are you planning on staying? (including contact details)
4) Are you planning on living here for the next 12 months?
5) Do you have TB?
6) are you a criminal?
7) how long are you planning on staying? (and are you migrating here?)
8) what is your occupation?
9) what nationality are you?
Now, they are far from alone, MOST countries have similar entry forms
then when you go to leave, you fill in another form:
once again, a few sensible questions.
it's not hard is it?
why are we not doing the same?
Interesting comparison of BBC vs ITV 'worm' reaction to what Farage said in the debate the other day about social housing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iel3q7fOOk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iel3q7fOOk8
Greg66 said:
don4l said:
Strawman alert! You just made up the reasons why we might want to monitor who is leaving, and then you argued against yourself. Well, congratulations, you won.
This is actually about taking control of our borders back from the EU.
It is about finding a way to reduce immigration to the sort of levels that Cameron promised before the last election.
You take back your borders to control who is entering. The question was about monitoring who is leaving. This is actually about taking control of our borders back from the EU.
It is about finding a way to reduce immigration to the sort of levels that Cameron promised before the last election.
I realise this is all quite complicated stuff though, with tricky words like "entering" and "leaving", which sound similar and can be confusing.
If you'd like to ask a different question which has nothing to do with counting people in or or out, but is directed at stopping free movement of people within the EU, feel free.
If we have a target of 50,000 nett immigrants, then we need to count them out as well as in - otherwise we cannot know if we have hit our target.
There is nothing difficult about collecting the information. You don't even need to ask people questions, or get them to fill in forms.
Esseesse said:
Interesting comparison of BBC vs ITV 'worm' reaction to what Farage said in the debate the other day about social housing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iel3q7fOOk8
Not seen that..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iel3q7fOOk8
Ffs how pathetic is that?
Fantastic news in my constituency! Mayor of Beaconsfield has left the Cons and joined UKIP. Dominic Greive's constituency.
http://www.getbucks.co.uk/news/local-news/mayor-be...
http://www.getbucks.co.uk/news/local-news/mayor-be...
Scuffers said:
when you enter another country, most of them ask you several questions on their entry cards.
eg. Australia's
note the questions:
1) who are you?
2) how did you get here?
3) where are you planning on staying? (including contact details)
4) Are you planning on living here for the next 12 months?
5) Do you have TB?
6) are you a criminal?
7) how long are you planning on staying? (and are you migrating here?)
8) what is your occupation?
9) what nationality are you?
Now, they are far from alone, MOST countries have similar entry forms
then when you go to leave, you fill in another form:
once again, a few sensible questions.
it's not hard is it?
why are we not doing the same?
The UK entry card asks the same questions apart from 5 (TB), 6 (criminal) and 8 (occupation). Not sure I see 8 as a big deal, and if you're a criminal why would you be trusted to answer 6 honestly (ever seen the list of questions the US asks, esp the one about whether you're a war criminal?). Q5 I would guess is more about infectiousness than healthcare burden, but I could be wrong. eg. Australia's
note the questions:
1) who are you?
2) how did you get here?
3) where are you planning on staying? (including contact details)
4) Are you planning on living here for the next 12 months?
5) Do you have TB?
6) are you a criminal?
7) how long are you planning on staying? (and are you migrating here?)
8) what is your occupation?
9) what nationality are you?
Now, they are far from alone, MOST countries have similar entry forms
then when you go to leave, you fill in another form:
once again, a few sensible questions.
it's not hard is it?
why are we not doing the same?
Departure cards are not universal, eg Canada. Passport scans are pretty universal in and out though.
Again, is the real question "why are we signed up to the free movement of people in the EU?"?
FiF said:
Actually the question covered both entering and leaving, including the mechanism of how and if we (HMG) monitor individuals in and out, or not. The issue of internal movement once they are here is tangential to the questions asked, but a reasonable diversion considering the question of whether it mattered.
However the request for civil and constructive comment was steam rollered in a handful of posts, as usual.
Gives up.
Actually, the question was about monitoring departure. It was based on a premise of having entered, but contained no question about entry. However the request for civil and constructive comment was steam rollered in a handful of posts, as usual.
Gives up.
No doubt this unhelpful observation will be filed under "semantics".
Greg66 said:
The UK entry card asks the same questions apart from 5 (TB), 6 (criminal) and 8 (occupation). Not sure I see 8 as a big deal, and if you're a criminal why would you be trusted to answer 6 honestly (ever seen the list of questions the US asks, esp the one about whether you're a war criminal?). Q5 I would guess is more about infectiousness than healthcare burden, but I could be wrong.
Departure cards are not universal, eg Canada. Passport scans are pretty universal in and out though.
Again, is the real question "why are we signed up to the free movement of people in the EU?"?
This has nothing to do with free movement, it's about basic border controls and data collection.Departure cards are not universal, eg Canada. Passport scans are pretty universal in and out though.
Again, is the real question "why are we signed up to the free movement of people in the EU?"?
Not doing this is dereliction of the government's primary responsibility.
Scuffers said:
when you enter another country, most of them ask you several questions on their entry cards.
eg. Australia's
note the questions:
1) who are you?
2) how did you get here?
3) where are you planning on staying? (including contact details)
4) Are you planning on living here for the next 12 months?
5) Do you have TB?
6) are you a criminal?
7) how long are you planning on staying? (and are you migrating here?)
8) what is your occupation?
9) what nationality are you?
Now, they are far from alone, MOST countries have similar entry forms
then when you go to leave, you fill in another form:
once again, a few sensible questions.
it's not hard is it?
why are we not doing the same?
A good reason for not doing the same is we have about 32 million visitors a year. So who is going to match 32 million entrance cards with 32 million exit cards.eg. Australia's
note the questions:
1) who are you?
2) how did you get here?
3) where are you planning on staying? (including contact details)
4) Are you planning on living here for the next 12 months?
5) Do you have TB?
6) are you a criminal?
7) how long are you planning on staying? (and are you migrating here?)
8) what is your occupation?
9) what nationality are you?
Now, they are far from alone, MOST countries have similar entry forms
then when you go to leave, you fill in another form:
once again, a few sensible questions.
it's not hard is it?
why are we not doing the same?
The UK still requires non EU visitors to fill in landing cards I assume we are paying for a massive warehouse some where to store them.
Mrr T said:
A good reason for not doing the same is we have about 32 million visitors a year. So who is going to match 32 million entrance cards with 32 million exit cards.
The UK still requires non EU visitors to fill in landing cards I assume we are paying for a massive warehouse some where to store them.
Really?The UK still requires non EU visitors to fill in landing cards I assume we are paying for a massive warehouse some where to store them.
You never heard of a computer? (And document imaging systems)
Why do you think their cards are laid out like they are?
Do you think that read them manually?
FiF said:
Seeing as there are so many supposedly smart people on the thread playing rather tiresome word games in order to win the Internet I'd like to ask a simple question or three.
If someone is admitted to the country on a temporary visa, finite duration for whatever reason, how do we know when they've left?
If someone enters the country without a visa due to reciprocal or other arrangements with their country, how do we know they are here and when they have left or not?
Should we know this information or does it not matter in the slightest?
Civil constructive answers only please.
A constructive answer is we have to many visitors to trace entrance and exit. The paper work is massive, or the Government could develop a computer system, no let not go there!!!If someone is admitted to the country on a temporary visa, finite duration for whatever reason, how do we know when they've left?
If someone enters the country without a visa due to reciprocal or other arrangements with their country, how do we know they are here and when they have left or not?
Should we know this information or does it not matter in the slightest?
Civil constructive answers only please.
What we should and do have is very high fines for anyone illegally employing someone with no right to work here,
We should also have better controls about access to the NHS. Make access dependant on a medical card and then properly control access. Would that be economic I have no idea.
Scuffers said:
This has nothing to do with free movement, it's about basic border controls and data collection.
Not doing this is dereliction of the government's primary responsibility.
Free movement is the antithesis of border controls. Not doing this is dereliction of the government's primary responsibility.
Data collection is not the Government's "primary responsibility".
Scuffers said:
Greg66 said:
Free movement is the antithesis of border controls.
Data collection is not the Government's "primary responsibility".
It is if you are serious about keeping criminals, terrorists, and other undesirables out.Data collection is not the Government's "primary responsibility".
Idiot.
Greg66 said:
don4l said:
Good news!
ICM poll out today says that UKIP support is up 4% in the last week.
Even better news! ICM poll out today says that UKIP support is up 4% in the last week.
Electoralcalculus.co.uk predicts UKIP will win one seat at the GE: Carswell's. So the future of UKIP will involve Farage standing down. Carswell or AN Other as the new leader?
Or would you be bothered if UKIP did only win seat?
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