UKIP - The Future - Volume 4

Author
Discussion

MGJohn

10,203 posts

182 months

Monday 20th April 2015
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Nigel Farage always impresses when telling things like they are. He has attracted a few very competent females to the party including this one from the Tory party and boy oh boy she impressively deals with this media luvvie ... enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YsvLJ9jq_4

The Torys have lost a good 'n there! Several of the more prominent higher profile UKIP females are impressive performers when button holed by media smoothies. Victoria Ayling is yet another.

TKF

6,232 posts

234 months

Monday 20th April 2015
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TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Monday 20th April 2015
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Scuffers said:
Us check every passenger heading for us airspace.

If you arrive and have a criminal conviction undeclared, they will turn you round.

Happens every day.
It really doesn't you know.

Unless you're an international drug baron or mass murderer, they will have no record of you. Nobody has been turned away from the US due to the caution for cannabis possession they have from when they were 18 or the fine for common assault from that time it all got a bit lairy outside the Dog & Duck.



FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Monday 20th April 2015
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Greg66 said:
Is there not automated data collection on entry - actual, not opportunity? My experience extends to airports and Dover (ferries and tunnel) and I am pretty sure that at all of them, on entry, I hand my passport over to a man in a booth or desk who scans my passport and looks me in the eye.

Are you saying that at Harwich that isn't done?
Have you never approached the desk, lifted your passport out of your pocket and the officer just waives you through without looking at it? I have, at LHR too. Actually have even passed through without passport coming out of my pocket, but that's another story and quite extraordinary circumstances so not really relevant.

As for Harwich it's some time ago maybe 6/7 years but once drove off and straight through. A few customs in the shed but no one in the immigration booth that I passed. Another time didn't even have my passport on me due to a cock up, but other Swedish police papers accepted.

But what happens with the scan? Is it stored? Or is it just a check against a list?If stored is it retained in any readily useful format? Wasn't that the idea of the binned e-borders? I don't know the answers on this in detail hence asking.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Monday 20th April 2015
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Timsta said:
DJRC said:
Timsta said:
DJRC said:
And to be fair we don't really give a fk about the exit controls in the countries we go to either.
Don't we? Oh. OK.
No we aren't. Of course I'm sure you are, being terribly polite Middle English and obeying the rules etc. The majority of folks I've known working in various countries however have turned up, taken the money and fked off when they were done.
Actually, we do care for exit controls. You may not, but some of us do. As for being terribly polite Middle English, nope, so very wrong there too. Not english, not even British.

Just because you don't care for exit controls doesn't mean you can talk for everyone who goes abroad.
So your original "we" wasn't actually a we at all then. Thank you for your pointless answer, you win today's £2500 jackpot.

brenflys777

2,678 posts

176 months

Monday 20th April 2015
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Greg66 said:
don4l said:
In that case you should stop worrying about the issue.

Or would you be bothered if UKIP did only win seat?
ETA: as I am not generally a fan of higher taxes and higher spending, and specifically very much opposed to yet higher taxes being imposed on me to fund spending on someone else's lifestyle, this is admittedly a very selfish concern. But, alas, I am not sufficiently altruistic to vote for a government that will help itself to tens of thousands of what, in my socially unreconstructed way, I consider to be my money.
My local Conservative candidate has been boasting on twitter about how the conservatives have increased the tax paid by higher earners. Apparently it's all with the aim of fairness....

wc98

10,334 posts

139 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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rs1952 said:
FredClogs said:
Really, you're still quoting the Express? Even before Desmond donated £1.2million to UKIP the newspaper was a joke, you can not be serious?

As an aside I'm working with 2 piles at the moment, both highly skilled and educated, both been here for over 6 years, both planning to go home by the end of the year, as many ex pat Brits all over the world are also doing.
I presume you meant "Poles" otherwise perhaps you should visit your GP smile

But you touch upon an interesting point that UKIP have not really sussed out. Immigration is not what it used to be, when "immigrants" turned up at Southampton Docks with one suitcase and they had taken a one-way trip. They knew it and we knew it in the UK.

Have you seen how many flights to the various Eastern European countries flying out of UK airports these days? From Bristol as just one example:

2 flights per week to Gdansk, Krakow, Poznan, Wroclaw in Poland, Kaunus in Lithuania, and Prague
3 flights per week to Warsaw and Budapest

And that's just one regional airport. Some "immigrants" go home at weekends, and a lot more come to the UK for a year or two, make a few bob and then bugger off back home. The same as the UK population has been doing around the world since travelling was invented.

But presumably it is OK in UKIP land for UK workers to bugger off and make a packet elsewhere, but it isn't OK for other country's nationals to do the same here?

The world has moved on since the 1950s, and I personally have no wish to go back to them. Especially for Sunday radio...
i wish people would just read the manifesto. as far as i am concerned ,as many skilled poles that want come here are welcome . the poles i know are all nice people,hard working and appear to bring up their kids properly.

i do not want criminals from anywhere coming here, i do not want beggars coming here,and i do not want people filling the unskilled jobs that our very own feckless could be doing to get a foot on the ladder towards actually contributing something for a change.

feel free to tell me what is wrong with that .

wc98

10,334 posts

139 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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JustAnotherLogin said:
Well the minimum wage is £6.50 an hour

A typical working week is 37 hours (lets not assume they work too hard and it doesn't take fractions)

That makes £240.50/week

Stick that into this tax calculator
http://wageindicator.co.uk/main/pay/working-tax-cr...

and the person would pay

£880.20 tax and £589.68 NI per annum

Tricky stuff this maths. Let me know if you need help calculating your IQ
i thought cameron was raising the tax threshold for minimum wage workers so they pay no tax at all ?

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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TKF said:
What did you say to her TKF?

Your usual charming self, no doubt.

PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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rs1952 said:
But presumably it is OK in UKIP land for UK workers to bugger off and make a packet elsewhere, but it isn't OK for other country's nationals to do the same here?
I would be interested to know how many brits work abroad get paid by the company they work for but also get paid by the government of the place they work in?
Health care in the middle East was always private and provided by a company scheme.
I have no problem with people working wherever they like as long as the get the same pays as the locals and do not cost the country money,

the working tax credit or whatever its called now had a logic to it when it started, it made it financially more attractive to work , also the savings made on unemployment benefits offset some of the costs, with foreign workers there is no saving just a cost,

its interesting that immigration is supposedly good for the financial economy, but we have had a period of high immigration but no corresponding rise in tax receipts , the numbers do not add up.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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TTwiggy said:
Scuffers said:
Us check every passenger heading for us airspace.

If you arrive and have a criminal conviction undeclared, they will turn you round.

Happens every day.
It really doesn't you know.

Unless you're an international drug baron or mass murderer, they will have no record of you. Nobody has been turned away from the US due to the caution for cannabis possession they have from when they were 18 or the fine for common assault from that time it all got a bit lairy outside the Dog & Duck.
begg to differ, seen it happen several times, and no, none of them looked like Mr. Big

One guy I remember (because he was in-front of me at the immigration desk) had a UK conviction for violent disorder, this was put to him less than 5 seconds after he presented his passport. You tell me where they get the data from?



anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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brenflys777 said:
My local Conservative candidate has been boasting on twitter about how the conservatives have increased the tax paid by higher earners. Apparently it's all with the aim of fairness....
That's an interesting spin on the Conservative position.

The marginal rate for higher earners has been higher as I understand it because Labour introduced the 50p rate with only a few months before the election: basically a poison pill for the Conservatives to grapple with. It since came down to 45p, but not for a couple of years.

The net result is that Labour's top rate was almost exclusively 40p, and the Conservatives had landed on them the 50p which, for largely political reasons rather than economic ones, they were stuck with.

Labour and the SNP have both said they will push the 45p rate back up to 50p, along with a mansion tax and no doubt some other pocket raping which has not yet been disclosed. Balls has been careful not to rule out lowering the 40p threshold; Osborne wants to raise it to £50k

The bottom line is that the Conservatives want to reduce tax and Labour want to increase it. As always.

dirkgently

2,160 posts

230 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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NicD said:
TKF said:
What did you say to her TKF?

Your usual charming self, no doubt.
To be honest she should be pulled up for that.

The proper English way is with two fingers.

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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Scuffers said:
begg to differ, seen it happen several times, and no, none of them looked like Mr. Big

One guy I remember (because he was in-front of me at the immigration desk) had a UK conviction for violent disorder, this was put to him less than 5 seconds after he presented his passport. You tell me where they get the data from?
The only possible scenario there is that he ticked the 'yes' box on the visa waiver form where it asks if you have any convictions for 'moral turpitude'.

The only way they would know would be if he volunteered the information. They have no access to the PNC.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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TTwiggy said:
Scuffers said:
begg to differ, seen it happen several times, and no, none of them looked like Mr. Big

One guy I remember (because he was in-front of me at the immigration desk) had a UK conviction for violent disorder, this was put to him less than 5 seconds after he presented his passport. You tell me where they get the data from?
The only possible scenario there is that he ticked the 'yes' box on the visa waiver form where it asks if you have any convictions for 'moral turpitude'.

The only way they would know would be if he volunteered the information. They have no access to the PNC.
With respect, if you believe that....

So the US had no access to mercles cell phone, or the planet's email, etc.

Yes I am sure you will now call for tinfoil hats etc. But it's very much the world we live in now.


brenflys777

2,678 posts

176 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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Greg66 said:
brenflys777 said:
My local Conservative candidate has been boasting on twitter about how the conservatives have increased the tax paid by higher earners. Apparently it's all with the aim of fairness....
That's an interesting spin on the Conservative position.

The marginal rate for higher earners has been higher as I understand it because Labour introduced the 50p rate with only a few months before the election: basically a poison pill for the Conservatives to grapple with. It since came down to 45p, but not for a couple of years.

The net result is that Labour's top rate was almost exclusively 40p, and the Conservatives had landed on them the 50p which, for largely political reasons rather than economic ones, they were stuck with.

Labour and the SNP have both said they will push the 45p rate back up to 50p, along with a mansion tax and no doubt some other pocket raping which has not yet been disclosed. Balls has been careful not to rule out lowering the 40p threshold; Osborne wants to raise it to £50k

The bottom line is that the Conservatives want to reduce tax and Labour want to increase it. As always.
Just to be clear, any spin is not mine. This is my local conservative candidate for HoC using the increased taxes for higher earners to garner favour with the electorate. Locally this is a Labour seat, Cons close behind & UKIP only in 3rd place in polls by a few percent. Maybe she is trying to appeal to Labour voters who don't trust Ed etc but the fact remains according to her own figures I pay more tax under conservatives. As a single higher income married couple we lost CB for our 5 kids so between a tax increase & rebate cut (removal of CB) my household is worse off under cons than labour. The same household income split two ways & we'd pay a lot less.

I'm in favour of people on less than a decent living wage not paying tax, but according to her figures someone on £100k pays nearly 3 times more tax than someone on £50k.

rs1952

5,247 posts

258 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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wc98 said:
i do not want criminals from anywhere coming here, i do not want beggars coming here,and i do not want people filling the unskilled jobs that our very own feckless could be doing to get a foot on the ladder towards actually contributing something for a change.
We see a lot of this sort of reasoning from UKIP

But we never see the numbers. We are told by UKIP and others that it is a known and a clear problem, but it is never quantified. It seems to me a little simplistic - "we have to let these people in under EU rules so they must be turning us over. Stands to reason, dunnit?"

So perhaps you know who these criminals and beggars are? What are their names and addresses?

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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Scuffers said:
TTwiggy said:
Scuffers said:
begg to differ, seen it happen several times, and no, none of them looked like Mr. Big

One guy I remember (because he was in-front of me at the immigration desk) had a UK conviction for violent disorder, this was put to him less than 5 seconds after he presented his passport. You tell me where they get the data from?
The only possible scenario there is that he ticked the 'yes' box on the visa waiver form where it asks if you have any convictions for 'moral turpitude'.

The only way they would know would be if he volunteered the information. They have no access to the PNC.
With respect, if you believe that....

So the US had no access to mercles cell phone, or the planet's email, etc.

Yes I am sure you will now call for tinfoil hats etc. But it's very much the world we live in now.
They may have access to many things, the PNC is not one of them.

This subject has been covered inumerable times on SP&L. Sometimes as a result of a direct question where a poster with a chequered past is concerned about an upcoming trip, and sometimes as a result of some anti-BiB posters pointing out that the low threshold level that our polic have in respect of arrest (even where it leads to no charges) technically makes the arrestee unable to use the visa waiver scheme to visit the USA.

The response, from both serving police and lawyers is always the same: while the choice to 'come clean' is at the traveller's discretion, US immigration has no access to our criminal records database at the point of traveller immigration. It only matters for those moving there on a more permanent basis or where something else might cause US immigration to carry out further checks on an individual.

Also, I struggle to understand how you were in a position to know the exact circumstances of this person being turned back for an assault charge? US immigration is pretty hardcore and they don't like people 'hanging around.' So unless you've got exceptional hearing I don't see how you could know what was being said at passport control (and this assumes that they didn't follow usual procedure and take the person to a private area first).

But if personal anecdotes trump everything then I can tell you that I have a colleague who was a 'rather naughty boy' in his youth who travels to the US 2-3 times a year for business or pleasure. He has never revealed his convictions and has never been turned back.



johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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rs1952 said:
We see a lot of this sort of reasoning from UKIP

But we never see the numbers. We are told by UKIP and others that it is a known and a clear problem, but it is never quantified. It seems to me a little simplistic - "we have to let these people in under EU rules so they must be turning us over. Stands to reason, dunnit?"

So perhaps you know who these criminals and beggars are? What are their names and addresses?
I guess it may be a case of your location. I live in a low crime low unemployment area but if I go to a hand car wash its more than likely they will be Eastern European.
I would imagine the South East has its problems more than other areas.

Planet Blatark-9

332 posts

199 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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NicD said:
'About 1.2million Poles want to leave the country and move abroad in the next 12 months and almost one in four hope to land in Britain, a study by the Polish employment service found.

The staggering figures prompted concern in the UK - which is already home to nearly 800,000 of the eastern Europeans. '
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/571575/Polish-...

No problem, immigrants are 'good' for the economy.
Yes of course. And immigrants don't need anywhere to live, so they don't affect the housing problem either (I know this for a FACT as I watched the Leaders debate last week).

I know a couple of Polish guys (lovely guys that they are) who currently live and work here in the UK, that are buying as many properties as they can in Poland (they're doing very well!!)... I don't know how that's adding to the UK economy, as logic tells me that that's money just leaving the country and not re-circulating, - but again, i'm sure it is good for the UK in some complicated way - it's just too complicated for someone like me to understand.



ETA - a friend of mine owned a holiday home in Tenerife... but when she wanted to sell it she wasn't allowed to take that money out of the country. I'm sure that must make all of Tenerife racist, - right???

YES! I'm definitely getting the hang of this politics lark smile