UKIP - The Future - Volume 4
Discussion
wc98 said:
the funny thing on here with the in/out debate is the powerfully built director position of people looking after themselves,cut benefits etc ,etc. yet many reckon uk businesses will be be up against it if they do not have the eu to hold their hand for them. i prefer to listen to the business owners on here that reckon it will not make a difference.
The difference is the PH directors are very good at saying it won't affect their business.The reason why people get worried at the prospect of big businesses leaving is not just because of the jobs directly employed by the big business, but the fact that every job supports many others. To take JLR as an example they employ 34,000 people but support about 220,000 jobs in the UK in it's supply chain.
The same thing applies with JCB-for every person they employs a further 3 in the supply chain.
Those companies are probably the least likely to leave should Britain leave the EU but it means that when people like Carlos Ghosn and the SMMT say they will re-evaluate investment in the UK people take notice, because it's not just direct jobs but those in the supply chain and further afield that go as well.
cookie118 said:
Those companies are probably the least likely to leave should Britain leave the EU but it means that when people like Carlos Ghosn and the SMMT say they will re-evaluate investment in the UK people take notice, because it's not just direct jobs but those in the supply chain and further afield that go as well.
quite right.However, using your examples, JCB/JLR/etc all do more exports outside of the EU then into it, by some considerable margin.
JLR's biggest market is China, JCB's is India.
Scuffers said:
quite right.
However, using your examples, JCB/JLR/etc all do more exports outside of the EU then into it, by some considerable margin.
JLR's biggest market is China, JCB's is India.
Exactly and China and India will become even bigger trading partners with us if we exit the EU.However, using your examples, JCB/JLR/etc all do more exports outside of the EU then into it, by some considerable margin.
JLR's biggest market is China, JCB's is India.
Scuffers said:
cookie118 said:
Those companies are probably the least likely to leave should Britain leave the EU but it means that when people like Carlos Ghosn and the SMMT say they will re-evaluate investment in the UK people take notice, because it's not just direct jobs but those in the supply chain and further afield that go as well.
quite right.However, using your examples, JCB/JLR/etc all do more exports outside of the EU then into it, by some considerable margin.
JLR's biggest market is China, JCB's is India.
The European market is very important for the UK manufacturing, and supply bases of both companies, and that goes for other large employers and manufacturers.
cookie118 said:
You're right about that, however JLR now produces cars in China for the Chinese markets and JCB builds machines in India for the Indian market.
The European market is very important for the UK manufacturing, and supply bases of both companies, and that goes for other large employers and manufacturers.
what is it with you?The European market is very important for the UK manufacturing, and supply bases of both companies, and that goes for other large employers and manufacturers.
you bring up the boogeyman of losing trade with Brexit, you pick two companies, both of which do far more trade outside the EU, when that's pointed out your back to losing EU trade?
remind me again, who are JCB competing with in the EU market?
Same for JLR? (specifically Landrover)
cookie118 said:
The European market is very important for the UK manufacturing, and supply bases of both companies, and that goes for other large employers and manufacturers.
So what?Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?
.
Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?Why do things have to be so binary in Kipperland?
No, they clearly would ban us selling to them FFS. Would tariffs be 0%? Nobody knows.
don4l said:
cookie118 said:
The European market is very important for the UK manufacturing, and supply bases of both companies, and that goes for other large employers and manufacturers.
So what?Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?
No, they clearly would ban us selling to them FFS. Would tariffs be 0%? Nobody knows.
Scuffers said:
I would bet real money on that.
Nobody in the EU could stand a trade war, period.
Obviously.Nobody in the EU could stand a trade war, period.
I mean obviously they have held their ground and risked a trade war with Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, USA, Brazil, China, and in fact every country in the world with the possible exception of South Korea (and the French car companies won't let that happen again).
But they wouldn't risk it with us.
Though of course they might form a free trade area with US and Canada, so BREXIT would put us...oh. On the outside of that
But would never hold its protectionist ground against us. Obviously it has against the rest of the world. But we are special. We have Farage
TKF said:
.
Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?Why do things have to be so binary in Kipperland?
No, they clearly would ban us selling to them FFS. Would tariffs be 0%? Nobody knows.
As a business, my costs would reduce by 5% if we left the EU.don4l said:
cookie118 said:
The European market is very important for the UK manufacturing, and supply bases of both companies, and that goes for other large employers and manufacturers.
So what?Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?
No, they clearly would ban us selling to them FFS. Would tariffs be 0%? Nobody knows.
So, as long as the tariffs were less than 5% then I would find it easier to sell to the EU.
Under WTO rules, the goods that I buy and sell are rated at 0%.
TKF said:
.
Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?Why do things have to be so binary in Kipperland?
No, they clearly would ban us selling to them FFS. Would tariffs be 0%? Nobody knows.
Germany will strain a gut to ensure that it is 0%. Note that 80% of our exports to the EU countries will have 0% tariffs just due to WTO rules.don4l said:
cookie118 said:
The European market is very important for the UK manufacturing, and supply bases of both companies, and that goes for other large employers and manufacturers.
So what?Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?
No, they clearly would ban us selling to them FFS. Would tariffs be 0%? Nobody knows.
steveT350C said:
Farage has 9 point lead in S. Thanet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_United_Kingdom_constituencies,_2010%E2%80%9315#South_Thanetwow.
Interesting candidates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_%28UK_P...
Scuffers said:
what is it with you?
you bring up the boogeyman of losing trade with Brexit, you pick two companies, both of which do far more trade outside the EU, when that's pointed out your back to losing EU trade?
remind me again, who are JCB competing with in the EU market?
Same for JLR? (specifically Landrover)
Errm the point is that JCB and JLR do a huge amount of trade outside the EU but manufacture a lot of those products outside of the EU.you bring up the boogeyman of losing trade with Brexit, you pick two companies, both of which do far more trade outside the EU, when that's pointed out your back to losing EU trade?
remind me again, who are JCB competing with in the EU market?
Same for JLR? (specifically Landrover)
The UK base supports Europe and the 'Western' markets. Negative impact on Europe=negative impact on their UK operations. Comprende?
I actually have some knowledge of this so con/ag manufacturers in the EU market?
Hmm well there's:
Manitou
Merlo
Dieci
Wacker Neuson
Liebherr
Case
Dressta
Atlas Weyhausen
Volvo CE
Fendt
Claas
Deutz-Fahr
AGCO
Haulotte
Weidermann
Kramer
Mecalac
And that's just some of the main competitors based in and manufacturing in Europe, then you have:
JLG
Caterpillar
Hitachi CE
John Deere
Bobcat
Terex
Designing and making machines in the EU and then:
Caterpillar
Terex
Komatsu
JLG
With facilities in the UK to service EU and other markets.
My concern is that UKIP seem to present the view that it'd all be fine if we left but don't say how they'd achieve a free trade deal or fill in any of the details.
don4l said:
So what?
Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?
Europe would move to protect it's own, they have telehandler/tractor/backhoe/excvator manufacturers in Europe-why would they want to give a preferential deal to the UK on this?Are you suggesting that Europe would ban us from selling to them?
Do you have any data to back up your irrational fears?
don4l said:
As a business, my costs would reduce by 5% if we left the EU.
This was excatly my previous point-it's all very well your business doing better-what about everyone else? UKIP supporters seem to be all well and good with "my business would do better" but what about the bigger businesses that prop up many smaller businesses-possibly like yours?Mojocvh said:
cookie118 said:
I'm scared to think away from wot we were told at school..
Guam said:
Disastrous said:
Nobody can really be that stupid so presume you're simply pretending to think that TKF has a problem with tattoos to avoid his actual point?
cookie118 said:
I actually have some knowledge of this so con/ag manufacturers in the EU market?
Hmm well there's:
really?Hmm well there's:
Manitou - are they still in business? (their EU sales are declining from a not very high start point, some £400M in 2014)
Merlo - who? are they even still in business?
Dieci - who?
Wacker Neuson - as a whole group, their total sales is what? <£1Bn
Liebherr - their Swiss?
Weidermann - part of Wacker Neuson above.
cba to go through the rest - sorry
now compare that with JCB's over £3Bn revenues, most of which is NON EU and growing fast
cookie118 said:
Well sorry for actually asking questions about how UKIP intend to achieve stuff rather than just accepting they'll give the UK everything on a plate. The SMMT and other organisations have raise questions about the impact of leaving the EU but I've not seen any real argument to counter it other than anecdotal data.
EU market is shrinking, incase you had not noticed... time to look elsewhereScuffers said:
EU market is shrinking, incase you had not noticed... time to look elsewhere
Really?So by how much did EU GDP change in 2014?
What about the most recent data for Q4 2014? (clue, answer is +0.7%)
What is forecast for this year? (Clue, the answer is +1.3%)
So where is this shrinking?
wc98 said:
i prefer to listen to the business owners on here that reckon it will not make a difference.
I own a business (IT consultancy). 2 of my blue chip clients have said that if the UK was out of the euro then they would likely source our type of services from companies within the EU. If what they are saying is true then that will certainly make a difference.
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