UKIP - The Future - Volume 4

[Scuffers]

Esseesse said:

Where you're from really comes down to where you feel you're from.

It is highly likely in the case that British ex-pats have a child in China and send it to an International/British school, that that child will be much more British than Chinese. This is especially the case if they've brought the child up in the knowledge that at some point they will go 'home' (and if they visit Grandma yearly at 'home').

If a British couple go to China with the intention of making it their home and never leave, make an effort to fit in with local people, and send their child to a Chinese school, then the child will be far more Chinese than British.

I brought this up becuse of what has happened before...

I live in an area with a significant Italian population, they came to the UK ~50 years ago, so we are into the 3/4 generation from then.

My point is they are 100% permanent UK residents, most have UK passports, yet if you ask them a lot will still call themselves Italian.

[don4l]

Guam said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

I think it was Tebbit's phrase "Get on your bike"

Now there is a name that should gladden the hearts of our kippers

The point is though he wasn't wrong, even though I hated everything they stood for back then, I did exactly what he suggested and moved from Tyneside to the south and never looked back.
Sometimes someone has to speak uncomfortable truths.

Perhaps that is what is missing in today's politicians!

I came to this country in 1976 because there was no work, or benefits, where I then lived.

It's easy to get off your backside when the alternative is starvation.

[Esseesse]

Scuffers said:

I brought this up becuse of what has happened before...

I live in an area with a significant Italian population, they came to the UK ~50 years ago, so we are into the 3/4 generation from then.

My point is they are 100% permanent UK residents, most have UK passports, yet if you ask them a lot will still call themselves Italian.

So do I, maybe we live in the same area. In fact my OH is one of them, although she also is from the UK town too I think she'd say. It's a funny thing, I think when people are away from 'home' (1st gen) they tend to feel more strongly patriotic. And this feeling is passed on for several generations, even though they would on the whole not choose to go 'back' to Italy.

[McWigglebum4th]

brenflys777 said:

BGARK said:

Countdown said:

Yes.

If you apply for Chinese citizenship and it is granted then all of you, including the child, will have Chinese nationality.

Chinese citizenship or any piece of paper will not make the child Chinese. Unless the piece of paper contains a magic spell.

My family aren't English. I was born and brought up in England. I'm English.

Thankfully they didn't emigrate to Jamaica (I don't like the heat and mossies love me..although the music and food… ) but if they had I'd be Jamaican.

nationality is more then a piece of paper

You could be born in china to english parents and never interact with the locals and end up very english


That statement isn't racist


change it to

You could be born in england to chinese parents and never interact with the locals and end up very chinese

And the anti-kippers will be screaming for my death as i am a racist

[Axionknight]

Scuffers said:

I brought this up becuse of what has happened before...

I live in an area with a significant Italian population, they came to the UK ~50 years ago, so we are into the 3/4 generation from then.

My point is they are 100% permanent UK residents, most have UK passports, yet if you ask them a lot will still call themselves Italian.

Like Paolo Nutini? Mind you, if I were from Paisley I'd tell people otherwise to be honest

[handpaper]

JustAnotherLogin said:

I think it was Tebbit's phrase "Get on your bike"

Now there is a name that should gladden the hearts of our kippers

Leaving aside the fact that Tebbit never said that, I quite agree with the sentiment.
But then, I'm an old-school Libertarian ex-Tory Kipper; some of these arriviste Lefty ex-Labour supporters may not.
Just goes to show that people see in any cause what it suits them to see. Sometimes they're even aware of this.

[brenflys777]

Guam said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

I think it was Tebbit's phrase "Get on your bike"

Now there is a name that should gladden the hearts of our kippers

The point is though he wasn't wrong, even though I hated everything they stood for back then, I did exactly what he suggested and moved from Tyneside to the south and never looked back.
Sometimes someone has to speak uncomfortable truths.

Perhaps that is what is missing in today's politicians!

Tebbits point about unemployment not excusing rioting and needing self motivation, is not at odds with wanting to also ensure that the market for work is not distorted by excessive competition from unlimited immigration IMO.

Tebbit has in my opinion been unfairly judged by people who don't see past the spitting image puppet! His comments in this interview about Cameron/Ukip are interesting, especially his suggestion of the argument and counter argument against voting for UKIP!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservat...

[rohrl]

UKIP have binned Jeremy Zeid, their candidate for Hendon, after he suggested that Israel should kidnap President Barack Obama "like Adolf Eichmann".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3020038/Uk...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-321345...

[wc98]

rohrl said:

UKIP have binned Jeremy Zeid, their candidate for Hendon, after he suggested that Israel should kidnap President Barack Obama "like Adolf Eichmann".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3020038/Uk...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-321345...

good ,another idiot gone. if only liblabcon could weed out the fruit loops from their own parties eh.

[FiF]

brenflys777 said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

brenflys777 said:

Zod said:

Guam said:

Scuffers said:

that went well!

Much as I can see what they were getting at, that really does not help anybody.

This is unfortunately where this sort of stuff leads, down this road lies anarchy and intolerance.

The Police should jump on both sets and throw the book at them, if not how long before we see Political violence on the scale we see in some countries in Europe?

Quite right. I'm sure Farage does not want anything to do with these people.

UKIP and Farage have made it quite clear they don't want to be associated with Britain First - even the Huff Post reports it's unwanted attention:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/29/britain...

The same goes for the EDL http://news.stv.tv/north/229874-ukip-leader-nigel-...

These intolerant aggressive individuals and their unpleasant behaviour are not wanted by UKIP. Unfortunately there seems to be no evidence that Cameron/conservatives, Milliband/Labour and Clegg/Libs have any problem with the equally unpleasant behaviour of the groups who try to intimidate/assault Farage and threaten/vandalise UKIP members and property.

So whilst you can be quite sure Farage doesn't support this behaviour, the other main political parties are effectively endorsing it by failure to speak out.

I agree with Guam,

But Brenflys to suggest that the conservatives condone in ay way this sort of crap is to betray a very short memory. They have been the subject of this sort of attack from the extreme left for decades.

I agree that in this case Farage was more vulnerable because he did not have so much security, but it is not or the Govt to allocate such security, but the police. We deliberately in this country try and restrict political interference in policing. And rightly so in my view. Where politics have got involved with policing I am sure you will agree it hasn't generally been for the better.

I tried and can't find any evidence of Cameron/Clegg or Milliband condemning the attacks/intimidation on Farage/UKIP. Labour and Conservative MPs tweeted about how funny it was. None were reprimanded publicly if at all.

The fact the conservatives have been the target of this sort of intimidation previously, but don't speak out because it's UKIP makes it worse in my opinion.

Politicising the Police to a greater extent seemed to gather pace under Labour and the introduction of PCCs and direct entry higher management officers by the Conservatives has furthered that goal. The Home Secretary calls the shots and I think they are risking creating a martyr out of Farage because of pettiness or hatred.

Just to revisit this subject.

When he does hire some security then we suffer the sort of ridiculous bile spouted by Letts in the Fail, aptly named.

Comments such as two security goons - bruisers - thuggish attendance - goons for a second time.

Did anyone expect anything different?

[TKF]

don4l said:

Guam said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

I think it was Tebbit's phrase "Get on your bike"

Now there is a name that should gladden the hearts of our kippers

The point is though he wasn't wrong, even though I hated everything they stood for back then, I did exactly what he suggested and moved from Tyneside to the south and never looked back.
Sometimes someone has to speak uncomfortable truths.

Perhaps that is what is missing in today's politicians!

I came to this country in 1976 because there was no work, or benefits, where I then lived.

It's easy to get off your backside when the alternative is starvation.

Thank goodness for the free movement of people, eh?

[smn159]

don4l said:

I came to this country in 1976 because there was no work, or benefits, where I then lived.

It's easy to get off your backside when the alternative is starvation.

But tough luck for anyone wanting to do the same today, right?

[anonymous-user]

"Pulling up ladders" springs to mind.

[FredClogs]

smn159 said:

don4l said:

I came to this country in 1976 because there was no work, or benefits, where I then lived.

It's easy to get off your backside when the alternative is starvation.

But tough luck for anyone wanting to do the same today, right?

There is something particularly unpleasant about anti immigration immigrants and working class Tories that makes me quite sad on the inside of my humanity.

[Digga]

FredClogs said:

There is something particularly unpleasant about anti immigration immigrants and working class Tories

Horsest.
It's pragmatism. How many more souls can our welfare state support? Where is the capacity or investment in infrastructure, schools, hospitals, homes, roads, rail etc. etc.?

At a certain point, immigrants - whoever, or wherever they are from - will cause difficulty. Greater numbers of more needy will exert different pressures than wealthy or skilled immigrants, but ultimately, the system as a whole can cope with a relatively finite number of people.

The great fallacy of the left's stance is that UKIP are not saying "no immigration", but merely discussing the fact that there do need to be controls.

[FredClogs]

Digga said:

FredClogs said:

There is something particularly unpleasant about anti immigration immigrants and working class Tories

Horsest.
It's pragmatism. How many more souls can our welfare state support? Where is the capacity or investment in infrastructure, schools, hospitals, homes, roads, rail etc. etc.?

At a certain point, immigrants - whoever, or wherever they are from - will cause difficulty. Greater numbers of more needy will exert different pressures than wealthy or skilled immigrants, but ultimately, the system as a whole can cope with a relatively finite number of people.

The great fallacy of the left's stance is that UKIP are not saying "no immigration", but merely discussing the fact that there do need to be controls.

We have controls from outside the EU and you know it and so does Farage no matter what picture he wishes to paint of "floodgates" and "swamps". Free movement within the EU is a quid pro quo arrangement.

It's not pragmatism it's I'm alright Jackism.

[Zod]

What on Earth is wrong with being "working class" and Conservative?

[anonymous-user]

Guam said:

Dear me, colour me surprised at some of the predictable responses to Don4Ls post, no one is suggesting preventing immigration, all that has been suggested is controlling the numbers to levels the infrastructure can cope with and qualifying the immigrants in terms of skill sets.
Something that is no different to many countries around the world.
Why some posters on here have to position this view as being the equivalent of raising the drawbridge and becoming fortress Britain I have no idea.

I've little doubt don4l can speak for himself. He usually does.

Isn't the point this: you speak of "qualifying the immigrants in terms of skill sets". We have no idea whether don4l, or other first generation immigrants to this country who now run successful businesses (I think I am right when I say that, broadly, don4l has described himself in those terms), would have had any chance of getting into this country if a skill sets test had been applied to them. Being prepared to work hard, take risks, and having an eye for opportunity are skills that is it not easy to measure if they haven't yet been demonstrated, and if they have, chances are that the person in question will be quite happy where they are.

[Zod]

Would don4l have passed the UKIP entry test with enough points based on his skills at the time?

[TKF]

Guam said:

If you live in areas like mine where the infrastructure is under considerable strain

The area you moved to for a better life?