UKIP - The Future - Volume 4

[Axionknight]

Labour, duh

[don4l]

eharding said:

mrpurple said:

eharding said:

TKF said:

mrpurple said:

Did you vote for him or UKIP?............I did and could not care one jot about his, or any other EUMP's attendance / voting record in Brussels / Strasbourg.

So he isn't letting "US" down.... you because you never voted for him and me because I am 100% happy with what he does/ or does not decide to vote on....and if that winds you up then that is fine by me also

Kippers really seem to struggle with this concept.

MPs and MEPs don't represent only the people who voted for them. They represent ALL the people in their constituency. Farage is a MEP representing the South East of England. He does absolutely naff all for his constituents.

If someone has a problem that they want to take their MP they don't ask who you voted for and only bother responding if you voted for the other guy.

Odd, isn't it? - the 'kippers on one hand are banging on about PR being a much fairer method of representation of the electorate's wishes, but regard the UKIP MEPs elected under PR as purely there to represent the wishes of UKIP voters, to the exclusion of all others.

Not odd at all...those who voted for him in his region would have known his stance on the EU...given that he was elected I would assume he obtained a majority...that being the case he is representing the majority who by inference voted UKIP and not the minority that you would like him to............please direct me to any post I have made re PR..... We all have to abide by the electoral system (domestic or EU) whether we like it or not...

MPs, and MEPs, are elected to represent *all* of the members of the relevant constituency, whether or not they voted for the particular elected member, or indeed if they even voted at all.

The fact you're unable to grasp this basic tenet of representative democracy speaks volumes.

This post surprises me.

You normally come across as a towering intellectual (which I am sure that you are aware).

However, there is a huge difference between our representation in the House of Commons and in Strasbourg.

We only have one MP, so they must represent all their constituents. We have many MEP's in each constituency, so we can choose which MEP we would like to represent us. For example, both Nigel Farage and Daniel Hannan are my MEP.

It may surprise you to know that I feed my input to Hannan.

[eharding]

don4l said:

It may surprise you to know that I feed my input to Hannan.

Not in the least surprised - I can't say whether mrpurple would be though.

The entire point is that Hannan does not pick and choose which of his electorate he takes input from, good or bad, based on who you voted for - he'd be deeply horrified at the very concept.

[Strawman]

Destroy or construct, the age old question. NF, the snaggle toothed f_ckwit clearly believes destruction is the way forward. God help him and all who suckle on his ahole.

[PRTVR]

Strawman said:

Destroy or construct, the age old question. NF, the snaggle toothed f_ckwit clearly believes destruction is the way forward. God help him and all who suckle on his ahole.

You may have missed it but the anti EU movement is widespread across Europe, the days of construction are over, its failed.

[Strawman]

Well obviously time will tell, at the moment there is a lunatic fringe that are anti EU, at less than 10% of the total voters I don't see how that is the definitive voice of Europeans, can you explain further?

[PRTVR]

Strawman said:

Well obviously time will tell, at the moment there is a lunatic fringe that are anti EU, at less than 10% of the total voters I don't see how that is the definitive voice of Europeans, can you explain further?

4 million UK voters are lunatics, oh well if you say it must be true,
The rise of the national front in France with their anti EU stance, all just insignificant?
Protests in Portugal against austerity imposed from the EU, then we come to Greece, where the EU is just throwing money at it to keep it afloat, all to keep the facade going, everything's fine nothing to see here move along, the EU is falling apart, the sooner the fact is recognised the better for all concerned.

[MGJohn]

Strawman said:

Well obviously time will tell, at the moment there is a lunatic fringe that are anti EU, at less than 10% of the total voters I don't see how that is the definitive voice of Europeans, can you explain further?

Plenty of folks who did not vote UKip are against the EU as it presently stands. Some of those are Tory MPs.

Do you include all or even any of those within you lunatic fringe?

[don4l]

eharding said:

don4l said:

It may surprise you to know that I feed my input to Hannan.

Not in the least surprised - I can't say whether mrpurple would be though.

The entire point is that Hannan does not pick and choose which of his electorate he takes input from, good or bad, based on who you voted for - he'd be deeply horrified at the very concept.

You seem to know him?

I'm not disagreeing with you BTW. It's just that your assessment is absolutely spot on.

[eharding]

don4l said:

eharding said:

don4l said:

It may surprise you to know that I feed my input to Hannan.

Not in the least surprised - I can't say whether mrpurple would be though.

The entire point is that Hannan does not pick and choose which of his electorate he takes input from, good or bad, based on who you voted for - he'd be deeply horrified at the very concept.

You seem to know him?

I'm not disagreeing with you BTW. It's just that your assessment is absolutely spot on.

No - never met him. Voted in his favour a number of times though.

If anyone were to be able to make the case for me to vote for an EU exit, it would be him.

I am annoyed and exasperated by aspects of the EU at least as much as I'd guess a decent proportion of the 3.8 million who voted UKIP are, but I don't have an innate loathing of the basic concept - and my annoyance and exasperation with the EU has been met and exceeded by the exasperation with the type of 'kipper who would gladly have seen Miliband in office, and no hope of any change in the status quo - with a wrecked economy to boot - simply as an act of vengeance against a broad Conservative movement that wasn't broad enough to accommodate them.

Happily, we're now in a position to decide. Whereof what's past is prologue, what to come, in yours and my discharge.

So give Hannan my regards next time you see him.

Edited by eharding on Wednesday 20th May 22:25

[Zod]

don4l said:

eharding said:

mrpurple said:

eharding said:

TKF said:

mrpurple said:

Did you vote for him or UKIP?............I did and could not care one jot about his, or any other EUMP's attendance / voting record in Brussels / Strasbourg.

So he isn't letting "US" down.... you because you never voted for him and me because I am 100% happy with what he does/ or does not decide to vote on....and if that winds you up then that is fine by me also

Kippers really seem to struggle with this concept.

MPs and MEPs don't represent only the people who voted for them. They represent ALL the people in their constituency. Farage is a MEP representing the South East of England. He does absolutely naff all for his constituents.

If someone has a problem that they want to take their MP they don't ask who you voted for and only bother responding if you voted for the other guy.

Odd, isn't it? - the 'kippers on one hand are banging on about PR being a much fairer method of representation of the electorate's wishes, but regard the UKIP MEPs elected under PR as purely there to represent the wishes of UKIP voters, to the exclusion of all others.

Not odd at all...those who voted for him in his region would have known his stance on the EU...given that he was elected I would assume he obtained a majority...that being the case he is representing the majority who by inference voted UKIP and not the minority that you would like him to............please direct me to any post I have made re PR..... We all have to abide by the electoral system (domestic or EU) whether we like it or not...

MPs, and MEPs, are elected to represent *all* of the members of the relevant constituency, whether or not they voted for the particular elected member, or indeed if they even voted at all.

The fact you're unable to grasp this basic tenet of representative democracy speaks volumes.

This post surprises me.

You normally come across as a towering intellectual (which I am sure that you are aware).

However, there is a huge difference between our representation in the House of Commons and in Strasbourg.

We only have one MP, so they must represent all their constituents. We have many MEP's in each constituency, so we can choose which MEP we would like to represent us. For example, both Nigel Farage and Daniel Hannan are my MEP.

It may surprise you to know that I feed my input to Hannan.

At his request or you just email him or comment via his website?

[eharding]

Zod said:

At his request or you just email him or comment via his website?

From memory, I think Don knows him through his rambling group. Rambling as in countryside walks, pack-a-macs & wet Labradors - rather than the chuntering on PH type.

[don4l]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I visited both Sweden and Norway in the 80's. They were both reasonably affluent. However, I wouldn't want to live in either. The levels of taxation were extreme and seemed to affect every part of everyday life.

At the time, a pint of beer was £5.00 (IIRC). I can remember a bar in Norway which had a big roulette wheel thingy. Each square on the wheel had a value between £0 and £10. You could take three spins and you would then get your next 10 pints at the average of the three. In other words, if you landed on £0, £5.00 and £10.00 then you would pay (15/3 = 5) £5.00 a pint for your next 10 drinks.

Under such a strenuous tax regime, business couldn't survive. So they had special incentives to encourage free enterprise. The most visible, in Norway, was the difference in VED between private and business vehicles. A business vehicle ran on a green numberplate, but it couldn't have any rear seats. So, there were huge numbers of cars that had their rear seats removed. The whole area had a depressing air.

The overall effect was that people couldn't afford to socialise. A visit to a pub, restaurant or club was a rare thing.

Meanwhile, in Spain, a pint was £0.30. You could go to a fiesta and get a meal for 6 people for 750 pesetas (£3.00). This included wine and bread! Even the poorest citizens had a decent quality of life. These days, Spain is less affordable than it used to be, although people have nicer cars than they used to.

So, to answer your question. Nowhere is perfect. The UK is good. Spain is quite good, although it is lacking in some aspects (welfare and property rights come to mind). I wouldn't choose to live in Scandinavia in a million years.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If you want to read about what a current socialist utopia Sweden is now, give this thread a read. It is not all rosy in that Svenska garden.

These are people that know the country well, who are commenting.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Axionknight]

It isn't even a pint, you get half a litre, cheated out of 68ml! Tricksy bloody foreigners!

Seriously, it you want to get tanked up in Sweden or Norway, take gold bullion!

[steveT350C]

[PRTVR]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Why do we have to follow another counties path ? why can we not just make our country better, there is a lot about the UK that is good,
You talk about opportunities for all, most would agree with that, how about helping the less fortunate? I take it you agree with that?
In the Eu most countries are less fortunate than us,things are getting worse, do we help them all? do we provide a health service for all, do we provide benefits for all, if not how do you stop the mass migration from the poor countries to the rich?
you talk of paying a bit more in tax but it may be more than a bit, even if we could build enough houses hospitals schools how do we staff them,
the problem I see is that the people who are making the decisions will not be effected by there outcomes, so its very easy to hold liberal views.

[don4l]

Zod said:

At his request or you just email him or comment via his website?

Purely a matter of convenience. He happened to be there, and I explained the unintended consequences of the EU ban on high strength e-cigarette liquids.

[RYH64E]

don4l said:

So, to answer your question. Nowhere is perfect. The UK is good. Spain is quite good, although it is lacking in some aspects (welfare and property rights come to mind). I wouldn't choose to live in Scandinavia in a million years.

The UK is good, there's nowhere else I'd choose to live, as for our membership of the EU, I'd rather be in than out. Free and unrestricted access to the eu market gives significant trade opportunities for those who choose to take advantage of them, and it's very easy to make much more money from the EU than the cost of membership.

If we could have all of the benefits of membership without the associated costs then it would be foolish not to consider it, but even non-members such as Norway contribute very substantially to the eu budget, and have accepted most of the legislation that so irks some.

[mrpurple]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Very noble idea if not a tad naive IMO.

If you gave everybody £100 it would not be long before most will have £0 left and a few will have worked their hardest to get it off them and end up most of it, so ending up back at square one.....that is the way of the world IMO..... and I would use this same analogy for countries also.