UKIP - The Future - Volume 4
Discussion
Scuffers said:
Scuffers said:
Mrr T said:
The problem with Farage's comments was not about racism but about the fact he had no evidence to support what he said. Lots of kippers on here keep saying this is a major problem but the fact is there is no evidence its a problem. If your in a political TV debate its a good idea for the great leader to stick to facts not make thing up.
that's a bold statement to make, care to back it up with some real examples?in the mean time, Zod and co witter on about f**k knows what trying to divert attention.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
that was not evidence at all, that's the problem.As I said at the time, there are no accurate figures, but the ones you linked to are very easily proven to be total fiction.
There are loads of organisations quoting all kinds of numbers, just about all of them fail any basic sanity test.
Scuffers said:
Scuffers said:
Mrr T said:
The problem with Farage's comments was not about racism but about the fact he had no evidence to support what he said. Lots of kippers on here keep saying this is a major problem but the fact is there is no evidence its a problem. If your in a political TV debate its a good idea for the great leader to stick to facts not make thing up.
that's a bold statement to make, care to back it up with some real examples?As an aside Carswell's dad was one of the first Docs to diagnose HIV in the UK. I reckon he knows more about the subject than an angry man on the internet.
Carswell said:
I think some of the tone we deployed, for example, the comments about HIV, were plain wrong. Wrong on so many levels. Not just wrong because they were electorally unhelpful, but wrong because they were wrong
I'm gonna go right ahead and trust him ahead of you.Mrr T said:
s2art said:
Mrr T said:
I can imagine you red faced bashing the keys as you typed the above.
Calm down its only a car forum.
The problem with Farage's comments was not about racism but about the fact he had no evidence to support what he said. Lots of kippers on here keep saying this is a major problem but the fact is there is no evidence its a problem. If your in a political TV debate its a good idea for the great leader to stick to facts not make thing up.
There is some evidence.Calm down its only a car forum.
The problem with Farage's comments was not about racism but about the fact he had no evidence to support what he said. Lots of kippers on here keep saying this is a major problem but the fact is there is no evidence its a problem. If your in a political TV debate its a good idea for the great leader to stick to facts not make thing up.
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/11November/Pages/HIV-i...
'HIV is also more common in black Africans. This may be explained by the ongoing HIV epidemic in Africa: more than half of heterosexual people with HIV living in the UK were born in Africa.'
Its just very difficult to get accurate figures out of the NHS. I think the BNP once tried to use an FoI order to get the numbers, they got something and it was worrying.
TKF said:
Scuffers said:
Scuffers said:
Mrr T said:
The problem with Farage's comments was not about racism but about the fact he had no evidence to support what he said. Lots of kippers on here keep saying this is a major problem but the fact is there is no evidence its a problem. If your in a political TV debate its a good idea for the great leader to stick to facts not make thing up.
that's a bold statement to make, care to back it up with some real examples?As an aside Carswell's dad was one of the first Docs to diagnose HIV in the UK. I reckon he knows more about the subject than an angry man on the internet.
Carswell said:
I think some of the tone we deployed, for example, the comments about HIV, were plain wrong. Wrong on so many levels. Not just wrong because they were electorally unhelpful, but wrong because they were wrong
I'm gonna go right ahead and trust him ahead of you.I find it strange that anybody who has not paid into the system can use it, what makes it more troubling for me is watching my farther in law die in a nursing home while paying the majority of the costs himself, he had paid into the system all his life,
the comments from Carswell is understandable, his dad is a doctor, his job is to save lives, what would be interesting would be his view on how we are going to pay for it, some may say in the overall budget of the NHS it is a small amount, but when you have gone through the mill of trying to get what you are legally entitled to but system tried every trick in the book to avoid paying,having witnessed this you understand saving money is very important to the NHS, but only in certain circumstances.
s2art said:
So, Mrr T is claiming that they may be British citizens who contracted HIV here, the NHS assign it to the African AIDs epidemic, and you claim that they are not health tourists. OK. Do you really think that none of them came here because of the NHS?
You're wasting your time exchanging questions with this poster and one or two others who know full well the answers but simply want to prove somehow there's no problem when there most certainly is. Save your time and effort. We need more immigrants. Our InterNational Health Service can easily cope .... been on TV and everything.
This again?
Hopefully this will put some definite figures to it:
From Public Health England:
"In 2013 in the UK, 6,000 people were diagnosed with HIV infection"
This is a decrease from 6,250 in 2012. New diagnoses peaked in 2005 @7,890
Farage and some of the UKIP'ers have consistently said 7,000 per year which appears to be incorrect.
"There has been a decline in the number of new HIV diagnoses reported among heterosexual men and women in recent years (from 4,890 in 2004 to 2,490 in 2013) due to fewer diagnoses among people born in sub Saharan Africa "
Now-the tricky bit.
Nationality for people diagnosed with HIV in the UK is available for 83% of those diagnosed in 2013. The proportion of new diagnoses from people born (note-not coming from) Africa halved from 2004.
"In 2013, of MSM born abroad, 47% (IQR: 38%-55%) probably acquired their infection while living in the UK"
According to the PHE statistics the number of infections acquired abroad by heterosexual men and women has come down by a third since 2004 (Figure 7), and now those diagnosed with HIV are more likely to have caught HIV in the UK. The numbers of heterosexual people catching HIV in the UK has stayed roughly the same but the dramatic reduction in cases from abroad. For men having sex with men the figure is about 1/5 catching HIV abroad, the proportion doesn't seem to have changed much since 2004 (figure 4)
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Hopefully this will put some definite figures to it:
From Public Health England:
"In 2013 in the UK, 6,000 people were diagnosed with HIV infection"
This is a decrease from 6,250 in 2012. New diagnoses peaked in 2005 @7,890
Farage and some of the UKIP'ers have consistently said 7,000 per year which appears to be incorrect.
"There has been a decline in the number of new HIV diagnoses reported among heterosexual men and women in recent years (from 4,890 in 2004 to 2,490 in 2013) due to fewer diagnoses among people born in sub Saharan Africa "
Now-the tricky bit.
Nationality for people diagnosed with HIV in the UK is available for 83% of those diagnosed in 2013. The proportion of new diagnoses from people born (note-not coming from) Africa halved from 2004.
"In 2013, of MSM born abroad, 47% (IQR: 38%-55%) probably acquired their infection while living in the UK"
According to the PHE statistics the number of infections acquired abroad by heterosexual men and women has come down by a third since 2004 (Figure 7), and now those diagnosed with HIV are more likely to have caught HIV in the UK. The numbers of heterosexual people catching HIV in the UK has stayed roughly the same but the dramatic reduction in cases from abroad. For men having sex with men the figure is about 1/5 catching HIV abroad, the proportion doesn't seem to have changed much since 2004 (figure 4)
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
DJRC said:
You are a moron and an imbecile.
I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this but hey it's win win for me
I do wonder what kind of person would think that they could win an argument by saying "You are a moron and an imbecile."I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this but hey it's win win for me
Surely, only an imbecile could advance such an argument?
If you are officially classified as having "learning difficulties" then I will apologise, and I will also delete this post.
don4l said:
DJRC said:
You are a moron and an imbecile.
I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this but hey it's win win for me
I do wonder what kind of person would think that they could win an argument by saying "You are a moron and an imbecile."I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this but hey it's win win for me
Surely, only an imbecile could advance such an argument?
If you are officially classified as having "learning difficulties" then I will apologise, and I will also delete this post.
I accept your apology for your learning difficulties for not having understood the rather obvious "its win win for me" comment Im not a lawyer or 6th form member of the debating society or wannabe politician/activist. Im pure mob rule baiting chav scum and proud
I leave all the intelligent stuff to high faulting London hob-nobbing types like Zod.FiF said:
Such short memories. Refers to Gaz's post near top P239.
Whilst appreciating there's significant obvious baiting is obvious from all quarters let's give this a rest people.
What bothers you most; that people are ignoring you, or the crushing, secret disappointment that Farage failed miserably?Whilst appreciating there's significant obvious baiting is obvious from all quarters let's give this a rest people.
Ah yes, you and Guam aren't UKIP supporters. You just both spent an inordinate amount of time attacking those who attack them, without ever having the balls to nail your colours to the mast.
And when people pull you both up on it, the mod's doorbell gets a hammering.
Lol.
DJRC said:
don4l said:
DJRC said:
You are a moron and an imbecile.
I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this but hey it's win win for me
I do wonder what kind of person would think that they could win an argument by saying "You are a moron and an imbecile."I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this but hey it's win win for me
Surely, only an imbecile could advance such an argument?
If you are officially classified as having "learning difficulties" then I will apologise, and I will also delete this post.
I accept your apology for your learning difficulties for not having understood the rather obvious "its win win for me" comment Im not a lawyer or 6th form member of the debating society or wannabe politician/activist. Im pure mob rule baiting chav scum and proud
I leave all the intelligent stuff to high faulting London hob-nobbing types like Zod.I think there is no doubt that the aforementioned member will be basking in your, er, "praise".
Edited by Mojocvh on Monday 1st June 23:25
Zod said:
Come off it; he can't even get "high-falutin" right!
Damn it! Thats what you bloody get for trying to be poncy. I had high fallutin down first, then I thought Id spell it "posh" as I was referring to you, added the g as per Her Maj's language and sodding auto-type correct when and changed the bloody word on me!Anyway this chap, what do we reckon? More of a moron or more of an imbecile? Which way do we think he swings the most?
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