UKIP - The Future - Volume 4

[rs1952]

Scuffers said:

NoNeed said:

YES, YES AND YES.

So, presumably, your ok with the government doubling your NI. Payments then?

To pinch one of the phrases that you sometimes use to attack me when you either don't understand or don't want to hear what I'm saying - are you for real?

In this post you are at it again - dreaming up wild figures out of nowhere to make a point. Try applying a bit of thought to this:

If there is already a massive problem, as you appear to think there is, with health tourism, then we are already paying for it out of government expenditure.

So why, pray tell, would we need to consider putting up NI contributions by 1%, let alone doubling them?

With posts like these you simply make yourself look an absolute fool - even to the people on your side of the arguments.

[NicD]

NoNeed said:

You are right, waste in the NHS goes far far greater than a few quid being spent on foreigners.

And that is getting close to the bottom line:

Those that are outraged to see British people suffer while foreigners waltz in for free treatment, and those that think it marks us the 'chosen and civilised nation'

[MGJohn]

Apparently Health Tourists are Invoiced for the service the NHS provides. Of course none are ever known to scarper out of the UK sharpish once sorted without paying.

[NoNeed]

NicD said:

NoNeed said:

You are right, waste in the NHS goes far far greater than a few quid being spent on foreigners.

And that is getting close to the bottom line:

Those that are outraged to see British people suffer while foreigners waltz in for free treatment, and those that think it marks us the 'chosen and civilised nation'

So you can give an example of a Brit being denied treatment as a foreigner had been given it instead as a higher priority?

[NicD]

NoNeed said:

So you can give an example of a Brit being denied treatment as a foreigner had been given it instead as a higher priority?

That is not what i said.

[rs1952]

MGJohn said:

Apparently Health Tourists are Invoiced for the service the NHS provides. Of course none are ever known to scarper out of the UK sharpish once sorted without paying.

Certainly my MIL was invoiced when she was visiting from South Africa a few years ago and managed to get pneumonia whilst she was here. Her health insurance provider paid the bill, or rather reimbursed her after the event.

[NoNeed]

NicD said:

NoNeed said:

So you can give an example of a Brit being denied treatment as a foreigner had been given it instead as a higher priority?

That is not what i said.

Yes it is, you implied that Brits are being denied due to foreigners getting treatment and suffering as a result.


The NHS does not discriminate between foreign and British patients the same level and standards of care and treatment are there for all. It is what makes us great.

[don4l]

NoNeed said:

PRTVR said:

NoNeed said:

orgive me if it has already been asked, but how can you stop this health tourism? as I see it anybody can come here for a holiday and then get sick and I sincerely hope we have not turned into the sort of people that will send a nurse to somebodies bedside to tell them we have decided to let them die due to a location on their birth certificate and that no further help is available, and if we do turn into such people I will live the rest of my life in shame.

What like the rest of the world ? Get Ill in America and the first thing they require is your travel insurance or your credit card, it even applies to some European countries, could we not make a stipulation of visiting the UK having travel insurance ?

So in summary you want us to sink to their level and not help/lead others to raise their standards to our level.


Nice.

Perhaps we should consider giving free healthcare to the rest of the world's citizens when we can afford to look after our own.

An elderly friend of mine was refused a hip replacement because he was considered "too old". He was practically crippled, and needed 2 walking sticks to move about. It was only when his son got very actively involved that the NHS agreed to give him his hip replacement. Now, he can walk five miles with ease.

You, of course, would prefer that we give free treatment to people who have never contributed anything.

My friend is known as "The Major". He fought for your freedom.

So... you choose.

Who gets treatment... The Major... or an immigrant?

Many British born cancer sufferers are also denied treatment because the drugs are considered too expensive. Are you really happy that we allow British people to die because we would prefer to save foreigners?

[NoNeed]

don4l said:

My friend is known as "The Major". He fought for your freedom.

I too have a grand father that fought for freedom alongside millions of others, yet you as a UKIP supporter think ending those freedoms is progress.

Britain is great and it is great for many reasons, one of those is our humanity and being able to offer help to those less fortunate than ourselves.


The fact that the hip got replaced shows that it could be afforded and that cost wasn't the issue.

[NicD]

NoNeed said:

Yes it is, you implied that Brits are being denied due to foreigners getting treatment and suffering as a result.


The NHS does not discriminate between foreign and British patients the same level and standards of care and treatment are there for all. It is what makes us great.

you need to read the words written and not infer according your blindness.

and your own homily says it all.

A foreigner in greater need will be treated ahead of a Brit in lesser need.It is not what what makes us 'great', or it certainly did not used to be.

But its not the foreigner bit, its those that scam the system.

[Strawman]

I never watched the debate but Farage going on about johnny foreigner coming here and getting free aids treatment was one of the things much remarked upon the following day. Given the limited time each of the leaders of the 7 political parties had to talk why did he waste time on this? It just backs up the negative stereotype of the reformed BNP now kipper supporter. As someone has already remarked when you look at the massive NHS spend this is a drop in a bucket and hardly the most pressing issue of the day compared to; EU in or out, Budget deficit reduction, the crisis in Syria, the list is almost endless before you get to health tourism.

[don4l]

NoNeed said:

don4l said:

My friend is known as "The Major". He fought for your freedom.

I too have a grand father that fought for freedom alongside millions of others, yet you as a UKIP supporter think ending those freedoms is progress.

Britain is great and it is great for many reasons, one of those is our humanity and being able to offer help to those less fortunate than ourselves.


The fact that the hip got replaced shows that it could be afforded and that cost wasn't the issue.

Read my post again.

Do you really think that the NHS has unlimited funds?

It doesn't. They have to make choices every day.

The "Major" would be dead by now if his son hadn't fought so hard. We can save 5 "Majors" or one foreign HIV patient.

You can do 5 hip replacements for the cost of one year's HIV treatment.


You choose.

[NoNeed]

don4l said:

Do you really think that the NHS has unlimited funds?

Of course I don't, if you read my posts again you will see that I even suggested an area of savings, you may have some yourself but I think that what ever we spend on this so called health tourism that the money could be found many time over if somebody were to try.

I even suggested using the foreign aid budget if finance really is an option, what for me is not an option is turning somebody away to die, I wouldn't want to do that and I would never ask somebody else to do that on my behalf.


I take it that you agree about the freedoms that were fought for by our ancestors should be kept now then as you didn't comment.

[Scuffers]

Strawman said:

I never watched the debate but Farage going on about johnny foreigner coming here and getting free aids treatment was one of the things much remarked upon the following day. Given the limited time each of the leaders of the 7 political parties had to talk why did he waste time on this? It just backs up the negative stereotype of the reformed BNP now kipper supporter. As someone has already remarked when you look at the massive NHS spend this is a drop in a bucket and hardly the most pressing issue of the day compared to; EU in or out, Budget deficit reduction, the crisis in Syria, the list is almost endless before you get to health tourism.

You're in no position to comment if you cba to bother watching it.

[don4l]

NoNeed said:

don4l said:

My friend is known as "The Major". He fought for your freedom.

I too have a grand father that fought for freedom alongside millions of others, yet you as a UKIP supporter think ending those freedoms is progress.

What makes you think that that I would want to see any freedoms abolished? Your statement is a bit insane.

NoNeed said:

Britain is great and it is great for many reasons, one of those is our humanity and being able to offer help to those less fortunate than ourselves.


The fact that the hip got replaced shows that it could be afforded and that cost wasn't the issue.

So you genuinely believe that the NHS has endless funds?

Sorry, but I really do not believe that you are that thick.

You must understand that the NHS decides that some treatments are uneconomic. Don't you?

[NoNeed]

don4l said:

NoNeed said:

don4l said:

My friend is known as "The Major". He fought for your freedom.

I too have a grand father that fought for freedom alongside millions of others, yet you as a UKIP supporter think ending those freedoms is progress.

What makes you think that that I would want to see any freedoms abolished? Your statement is a bit insane.

NoNeed said:

Britain is great and it is great for many reasons, one of those is our humanity and being able to offer help to those less fortunate than ourselves.


The fact that the hip got replaced shows that it could be afforded and that cost wasn't the issue.

So you genuinely believe that the NHS has endless funds?

Sorry, but I really do not believe that you are that thick.

You must understand that the NHS decides that some treatments are uneconomic. Don't you?

LOL so you approve of the free movement of people around Europe? I am sure I have seen to speak against that.


And no I have not said the NHS has unlimited funds, on the contrary in fact if you care to remove that prejudice from in from of your eyes and read my posts properly.



I have re read your post as I couldn't believe what total nonsense it was and it is still nonsense. You call me insane, I suggest you go back a page or so to where I entered the conversation and try again as you seem to be making up what I am saying as you go along.

Edited by NoNeed on Tuesday 2nd June 21:38

[Strawman]

Scuffers said:

Strawman said:

I never watched the debate but Farage going on about johnny foreigner coming here and getting free aids treatment was one of the things much remarked upon the following day. Given the limited time each of the leaders of the 7 political parties had to talk why did he waste time on this? It just backs up the negative stereotype of the reformed BNP now kipper supporter. As someone has already remarked when you look at the massive NHS spend this is a drop in a bucket and hardly the most pressing issue of the day compared to; EU in or out, Budget deficit reduction, the crisis in Syria, the list is almost endless before you get to health tourism.

You're in no position to comment if you cba to bother watching it.

The question remains, why this (non)issue rattles Farage's cage so much.

[Scuffers]

Strawman said:

The question remains, why this (non)issue rattles Farage's cage so much.

1) its not a non issue.
2) its rattling everybody but him, t think that's the point.

[eharding]

Strawman said:

Scuffers said:

Strawman said:

I never watched the debate but Farage going on about johnny foreigner coming here and getting free aids treatment was one of the things much remarked upon the following day. Given the limited time each of the leaders of the 7 political parties had to talk why did he waste time on this? It just backs up the negative stereotype of the reformed BNP now kipper supporter. As someone has already remarked when you look at the massive NHS spend this is a drop in a bucket and hardly the most pressing issue of the day compared to; EU in or out, Budget deficit reduction, the crisis in Syria, the list is almost endless before you get to health tourism.

You're in no position to comment if you cba to bother watching it.

The question remains, why this (non)issue rattles Farage's cage so much.

Farage chose to press the issue because he calculated - correctly - that it resonates with his core vote. We can observe Scuffers, for example, happily resonating at his natural frequency on the subject.

Nigel wasn't trying to sway the middle ground in the televised debate, he was aiming to provide comfort and joy to those who already subscribe to the UKIP world view.

His miscalculation was in assuming that a solid performance from his core vote would translate into seats at Westminster.

But that's ancient history. Looking forward, the debate is over the EU In/Out question, and if Farage continues to play to the natural UKIP heartland over issues like this, the more damage he will do to the Out cause by alienating the 87% who aren't natural 'kippers.

[TKF]

4v6 said:

Never mind all that.

Try this.

Should the nhs be having to deal with health tourists at the expense of the taxpayer?

yes/no will do.

Yes

Because when your neighbour's house is on fire you don't argue who paid for the garden hose. Our NHS is run by these immigrants and it would genuinely be nothing without them.

I also don't believe it's anywhere near as bad as the Kippers are making out with their outlandish estimates becoming fact and emotional stories involving The Major.

A question back to you if I may? Do you think the children of a 3rd-generation never-worked British family living entirely on benefits be able to use the NHS?