UKIP - The Future - Volume 4

[TKF]

Scuffers internal monologue said:

Yay, dandarez is here! He make me look cleverer

[Bill]

dandarez said:

I only come on here now to chuckle.

Another who believes we are all living longer. Tell the people something often enough and they'll believe.
Our life expectancy in the UK is just above Cuba.

Now go into a dark corner and think about it. Population expansion in this country is nothing to do with living longer.
Ask Charles Kennedy's family.

Huh? We're not all alcoholics.

More clues for those who prefer data to anecdote: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census-a...

[allergictocheese]

Liverpool, probably.

[Disastrous]

TKF said:

Scuffers internal monologue said:

Yay, dandarez is here! He make me look cleverer

[Zod]

dandarez said:

I only come on here now to chuckle.

Really? I thought perhaps you were staying away in despair at the failure of your predictions about UKIP's amazing us all at the GE. I was at the Plough in Kingham for Sunday lunch after the election and I thought about you as I drove past a big Cameron banner.

[Funkycoldribena]

TKF said:

Scuffers internal monologue said:

Yay, dandarez is here! He make me look cleverer

You've (tkf) got a nasty little gang leader mentality about you which might play well to your adorers but really comes across more of looking like a bully who needs constant approval.

[tangerine_sedge]

dandarez said:

Bill said:

Scuffers said:

no, why do you want to sustain the ever growing population?

or do you subscribe to the great pyramid scheme of having more young to pay for the old?

we could do with reducing the population back to the 55-55M figure, this would relieve a lot of the pressured on everything from roads/schools/NHS/etc. to housing.

on a global scale, the world's population is already well over 7Bn, it's simply unsustainable to keep on like this.

A substantial part of that population expansion is due to people living longer. And the infrastructure they need needs paying for. So, as they have retired, where do you plan to get the money from?

I only come on here now to chuckle.

Another who believes we are all living longer. Tell the people something often enough and they'll believe.
Our life expectancy in the UK is just above Cuba.

Now go into a dark corner and think about it. Population expansion in this country is nothing to do with living longer.
Ask Charles Kennedy's family.

According to Wiki (I know, I know), we are ranked 19th (alongside Germany for example) versus Cubas 34...

I'm pretty sure all the evidence shows that *on average* we are living longer, but there are of course some demographics which are rising faster and some dropping(*).

Of course, you are correct, life expectancy has nothing to do with population expansion, but the OAP to workers ratio is changing, and there are only 3 ways of resolving it :
(i)More young people
(ii)less old people
(iii) forcing people to work past the current retirement age.

The easy option is to bring in more young people as temporary workers. The problem comes if they don't leave before they retire.
The difficult choice is either Euthanasia or expecting people to work to 80 before retiring. Good luck trying to implement either of those choices...


(*) see places where they think deep frying Mars bars is a good idea...

[blindswelledrat]

Funkycoldribena said:

TKF said:

Scuffers internal monologue said:

Yay, dandarez is here! He make me look cleverer

You've (tkf) got a nasty little gang leader mentality about you which might play well to your adorers but really comes across more of looking like a bully who needs constant approval.

Or someone who tries to manifest utter exasperation with terminal stupidity with humour rather than anger?

[Zod]

Funkycoldribena said:

TKF said:

Scuffers internal monologue said:

Yay, dandarez is here! He make me look cleverer

You've (tkf) got a nasty little gang leader mentality about you which might play well to your adorers but really comes across more of looking like a bully who needs constant approval.

I'm really not sure anyone here feels led by TKF. It's amusing, however, to see this thread's little gang of UKIP-supporting insiders getting upset at some of their own being mocked. A read back through each volume of this thread will show the behaviour of that little gang in a poor light.

There are plenty of polite, sensible people with whom I've crossed arguments on the thread, such as Essesse, Guam, Brenflys777 and FiF, but there's also that little crew of less pleasant types.

[tangerine_sedge]

Zod said:

dandarez said:

I only come on here now to chuckle.

Really? I thought perhaps you were staying away in despair at the failure of your predictions about UKIP's amazing us all at the GE. I was at the Plough in Kingham for Sunday lunch after the election and I thought about you as I drove past a big Cameron banner.

Every time I read this thread title I mentally hear the Sex Pistols....

"No future, no future, no future for you!"

[WinstonWolf]

Zod said:

Funkycoldribena said:

TKF said:

Scuffers internal monologue said:

Yay, dandarez is here! He make me look cleverer

You've (tkf) got a nasty little gang leader mentality about you which might play well to your adorers but really comes across more of looking like a bully who needs constant approval.

I'm really not sure anyone here feels led by TKF. It's amusing, however, to see this thread's little gang of UKIP-supporting insiders getting upset at some of their own being mocked. A read back through each volume of this thread will show the behaviour of that little gang in a poor light.

I think TKF wins a prize for the most embarrassing public unravelling so far...

Toys > pram...

[Disastrous]

WinstonWolf said:

Zod said:

Funkycoldribena said:

TKF said:

Scuffers internal monologue said:

Yay, dandarez is here! He make me look cleverer

You've (tkf) got a nasty little gang leader mentality about you which might play well to your adorers but really comes across more of looking like a bully who needs constant approval.

I'm really not sure anyone here feels led by TKF. It's amusing, however, to see this thread's little gang of UKIP-supporting insiders getting upset at some of their own being mocked. A read back through each volume of this thread will show the behaviour of that little gang in a poor light.

I think TKF wins a prize for the most embarrassing public unravelling so far...

Toys > pram...

He unravelled, did he? I must have missed that

[Bill]

tangerine_sedge said:

Of course, you are correct, life expectancy has nothing to do with population expansion, but the OAP to workers ratio is changing

It plays a part. If fewer people are dying the total population will increase. The link I provided shows that there were 1 million more over-65s in 2011 compared to 2001.

[Axionknight]

Maybe we could feed them to the poor.

/thread

[brenflys777]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That is not only insulting to me, but whilst you are entitled to your opinion, your view of what I think is unsubstantiated in fact.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I don't disagree with this. I don't think UKIP do either. If you can show evidence of me disagreeing it will give your opinion more crediblity. Otherwise you are in the same category as Scuffers stats.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I have never claimed this. you are mistaken.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I hope you re-read that and apply it to what I've written. You have misinterpreted or created opinions attributed to me which are false and then used them to suggest that they represent the difference between a principled viewpoint like yours and a prejudiced one like mine.

Edited by brenflys777 on Thursday 4th June 18:07

[brenflys777]

Funkycoldribena said:

brenflys777 said:

The best chance of BREXIT at the moment seems to come from the EU taking the p-ss

Are you saying if they take the piss or they are?

I should have been clearer. I think the best chance of BREXIT based on the current OUT campaign, personalities involved and Cameron's ability to fudge a referendum (as per Scottish changes) actually lie on the EU and its inability to evolve.

Faced with having actual changes and possibly buoyed by the poorly organised anti EU BREXIT campaign (so far) I think the EU may behave so poorly in relation to the referendum and negotiation that support for exit grows. I'm thinking of another large bailout bill or a Fifa like scandal.

[FiF]

blindswelledrat said:

THe thing is, nobody is talking about anything you have said.
The things you say are normal and I don't really understand why you associate yourself with the average UKIP voter, and the comments of other people on this thread
I could go out with any friend with your kind of rationale and have a perfectly rational conversation full of comments like yours which are not anti-immigration at all, but just measured discussions about getting a correct balance for our country. And we would conclude that yes, it would be nice to ease the volume of immigrant unskilled labour just a little, and reduce benefits just a little which would slightly inflate the labour rates and reduce the motivation to stay at home, whilst increasing the willingness of corporations to train. There would be a little inflation but as long as we used monetary policy to keep it in check that would be nice. We would also then accept that this is impossible and not that easy. Either in/out of Europe and the potential ghastly consequences and we cant have someone realistically accurately headcounting the correct people at immigration. So we would finish that conversation and have slightly different opinions about Europe etc THis is not the same as this thread and you are not the same as the majority of UKIP voters (the likes of which can be seen here) and for the life of me I cannot comprehend why you are so eager to have the association
So no, YOU have never discussed a 'send 'em back' policy but do you think the other rabid lunatics on this thread are discussing any kind of policies at all? (in fairness I would probably exclude PTVR from that insult- he is similar)

Edited by blindswelledrat on Thursday 4th June 16:20

Sorry BSR but whilst you're right that I don't have these associations, I really don't see the send em back posturing on this thread. Maybe that Flyer chap got a bit close here and there, but you must be reading something other into the posts than I am.

Also in terms of associating with UKIP, all I've done is say that certain of their policies are ones with which I can sympathise, which is muchthe same as all the other parties. There are some that definitely don't agree with, and others that are a case of, well that makes a good soundbite but how would that work in practice then or that would apidly invole the law of unintended consequences.

What I do see on this thread is ample evidence of unpleasant tribal bullying and bullcrap from many / all sides.

[Scuffers]

Greg66 said:

Holy st.

Pop of UK is currently about 65m (don't bore me again with the Tesco guesses). You said you wanted it down to 55m.

So removal of about 10m people.

You want to keep tax receipts up. So no removal of taxpayers.

You seem to claim that immigrants have no net economic benefit to the country.

Number of immigrants in this country in 2011: 7.5m. Say close to 10m now.

So that's the 10m you'd have removed. Forcibly repatriate, if you will.

Nice.

How prominent are your BNP tattoos, by the way?

Holy st indeed!

that's quite some leap to go from me suggesting we should be looking to reduce the population rather than allow its continuing rapid rise to somehow saying I had suggested Forcibly repatriating anybody!

FFS are you another one of the f**king basket cases on here who quite simply can't read?

to then go on and suggest I have BNP tattoos is simply pathetic, will you next be asking if I am a member of the Nazi party?

[PRTVR]

968 said:

PRTVR said:

But ignoring a problem will not make it go away, take Greece, there is reports that they have taken on 600 more cleaners for the parliament building, positive action, no negativity there, will it help their financial situation?

What is your view on the people coming across from Africa, should we stop them or should we just have an open door policy?

No ignoring a problem won't make it go away, and yet, despite how dire Greece is, and the more examples of it's direness, it still hasn't led to a tsunami of tzatziki and houmous accompanying the hordes of Greeks into the UK.

Africa has precisely nothing to do with this entire discussion, since they are not a part of the EU and consequently are subject to the same checks and balances of all non-EU migrants. But addressing your question, why does the choice have to be so binary and use such emotive language? Stop them or open door? How about controlled immigration from Africa?

The choice of emotive language was there for a reason, to get a response, its often used in reference to UKIP, wrongly, if you can see the point of controlled immigration into the EU why not within, yes the rules do not allow it at the moment, but who is to say things have to stay the same?
The very reason for controlled immigration is to limit the impact and problems associated with it, the same thing applies to the UK,but at present we are only able to do a limited amount about it, the way forward is controlled immigration between states, but that would go against the plan of a united states of Europe.
Your reference to a hordes of Greeks is not the point, the problem is how many can the system cope with, can we house them without driving house prices through the roof, can we provide health care schools and social services without impacting excessively on the current population, these should be genuine concerns for all.

[dandarez]

Zod said:

dandarez said:

I only come on here now to chuckle.

Really? I thought perhaps you were staying away in despair at the failure of your predictions about UKIP's amazing us all at the GE. I was at the Plough in Kingham for Sunday lunch after the election and I thought about you as I drove past a big Cameron banner.

Nah. I have too much work.

Anyway, I hear UKIP still got 4 million votes. Aside, is that fate? I was around Kingham after the election, and some old geezer complained about my noisy popping and banging (exhaust). He was taken aback when I got out, he thought I was 18! LOL.