UKIP - The Future - Volume 4
Discussion
techiedave said:
Tin Robot why are YOU so obsessed by this.
Don't feel a need to rush to reply I may not look at the thread for some time but just curious why you are. And why you feel such need to be personally offensive to other posters ?
Has it occurred to you that the anti-muslim ranting here day in day out is offensive? Don't feel a need to rush to reply I may not look at the thread for some time but just curious why you are. And why you feel such need to be personally offensive to other posters ?
Many people see it and feel the need to point out it is offensive and a rather backwards step for our society.
If you saw an old lady being mugged in the street for her purse - would you do nothing, or say "hang on minute, that's out of order"?
///ajd said:
SNIP
Many people see it and feel the need to point out it is offensive and a rather backwards step for our society.
SNIP
I agree.Many people see it and feel the need to point out it is offensive and a rather backwards step for our society.
SNIP
Islam is utterly offensive and rather backwards step for our society. It and it's intolerance towards western values MUST be resisted at all costs.
Of all the religious beliefs, no other one is so intent on destruction in the 21st century of western values and way of life as this one. I don't mean in terms of the threat of terror since that is a relative minority, so much as the backwards views on women and LBGT. If Islam is interpreted even "moderately" (ie not calling for death of non believers) it is still completely opposed to the way of modern life.
Christianity allows same sex marriages. So please remember that other faiths are modernising. Yet this vicious ideology starts riots and murders because someone drew a cartoon mocking their "leader" It even murders other followers of Islam because it's not the exact same version! Shiite vs Sunni
Maybe I missed the Christian going on rampages because of the life of Brian or people blaspheming!
Its the 21st CENTURY FFS! I've had it with "tolerance" for a religion that doesn't preach the same for others!
minimoog said:
No comment needed I think.
///ajd said:
Has it occurred to you that the anti-muslim ranting here day in day out is offensive?
Many people see it and feel the need to point out it is offensive and a rather backwards step for our society.
If you saw an old lady being mugged in the street for her purse - would you do nothing, or say "hang on minute, that's out of order"?
As other posters have been at pains to point out, the veil is not islamic per se and is not mandated in the koran; the wearing of veils occurs in other cultures and religions, ergo banning it would not be intrinsically anti-muslim although pace the Trump travel ban fiasco it could be deemed to be so as I imagine few veil-wearers in the UK are not muslim.Many people see it and feel the need to point out it is offensive and a rather backwards step for our society.
If you saw an old lady being mugged in the street for her purse - would you do nothing, or say "hang on minute, that's out of order"?
For clarity I think banning is a bad idea, although they should be discouraged by all other available means as they are antithetical to western liberal culture and are a bar to human communication.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
How scary is that ?I have been doing the same - except it's the wifes new X5. I'm hoping that by crawling a bit I can borrow it to go up to Cumbria week after next
I will look at your reply again which genuinely has touched me (no piss take no soft soaping I just thought it very honest) I have got to go and put Henry in the footwells and other areas now . If I'm a good boy I can have Line Of Duty on the big telly and a scotch and coke later on. If I fail to do a good job its a cup of tea and the Bedroom TV Its the series finale tonight I'm told but genuinely all the best
Lance Catamaran said:
Again, it's very basic psychology and how we and many species function. Why do you think the design of so many iconic villains involves them hiding their face?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.If you want to discount millions of years in evolution and think that eye contact and facial expressions play no part in the way humans communicate then I really can't help you.
Lance Catamaran said:
That loss of individuality and forced conformity is such a common trope? As for choice, do you honestly think women are doing this of their own volition, and not forced to by their family and community?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.So if we asked a bunch of pre-pubescent girls if they would like to spend the rest of their lives hiding their face in public, they'd say yes? If it's all about choice why do non-Muslims not wear them as well? I note you've used white men used as a pejorative again as well.
Lance Catamaran said:
Again, what exactly is feminist about hiding your entire body so as not to tempt men?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted. Lance Catamaran said:
The way Islamic countries treat women is disgusting, but you never hear a peep out of feminists about it. Still, men sitting with their legs too far apart explaining things are obviously far more pressing concerns.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.I'll even do some of the work for you. Here's the twitter account of Feminist Frequency, one of the most well known groups on there. Have a guess how many of their tweets are to do with how women are treated in mainly Muslim countries compared to how many are about how Princess Zelda was depicted in the latest game?
https://twitter.com/femfreq
Lance Catamaran said:
If we should be allowed to dress however we want then should people be allowed to wear bike helmets in a bank, a police uniform, Gas The Jews t-shirt, or nothing at all in public?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.Lance Catamaran said:
Interesting you have assumed I'm a white male and used it as a pejorative as well. But I assume casual racism is fine in that context?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted. DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
If a food is shown to be a health risk it is banned. We do not ban things because someone is scared by them. Clowns are not illegal in public places because some people suffer form Coulrophobia. So overall are you claiming there is no issue with the way Islam treats women? That it is fine for a man to tell his wife to hide her face so as not to tempt others and we should just live and let live? If an atheist did that to his wife he'd find himself in legal trouble very quickly. Tell you what, whilst I'm there I'll ask what the Koran teaches about homosexuality, atheism or apostasy. Should be interesting.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Well said. I feel exactly the same, and I have found myself wondering "am I really unaware of the scale of this intolerance?". I used to think it was just a tiny BNP minority, but from here it seems there is a much wider issue out there. Is it just a PH thing; the election poll shows is skewed towards a more right leaning bias. I knew as I was typing it that my comments on intolerance would be turned on Islam. I'm no fan of it but demonizing and banning it is not the answer. History shows us this is never the answer - indeed it is often the cause of bigger problems and conflict.
My big worry is that this new "society" we see played out increasingly frequently here will have to tip into an abyss where something terrible happens before we can crawl out of the other side and return to being a more inclusive community.
Lance Catamaran said:
The way you've attacked people in this thread it really does seem that it's you with the prejudice.
This!It strikes me that TinRobot is possibly a Muslim himself. Hence the constant defence of things which are indefensible to a tolerant, modern society that values everyone equally.
Or
More likely, suffering from the same self loathing for his white privilege reserved only for the most extreme lefties.
It's not the west in general or Christians and Hindus and Sikhs or Jews that are divided. It's not White people vs Black people vs Chinese vs Japanese etc etc
Oh, they have a voice. The problem is that their voice is in their opinion the only one that matters. Debate and diplomacy seems to be an alien concept. If I can make a generalisation. They take themselves too seriously. And it makes them unlikeable!
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
If you can't back up your assertions then yes. But I would prefer to debate with anyone who can point to actual facts and justify their positions. Crying racist or assuming everyone with a counter to you is a closet member of the bnp is a poor position.Rich_W said:
Lance Catamaran said:
The way you've attacked people in this thread it really does seem that it's you with the prejudice.
This!It strikes me that TinRobot is possibly a Muslim himself. Hence the constant defence of things which are indefensible to a tolerant, modern society that values everyone equally.
Or
More likely, suffering from the same self loathing for his white privilege reserved only for the most extreme lefties.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
It's not the west in general or Christians and Hindus and Sikhs or Jews that are divided. It's not White people vs Black people vs Chinese vs Japanese etc etcOh, they have a voice. The problem is that their voice is in their opinion the only one that matters. Debate and diplomacy seems to be an alien concept. If I can make a generalisation. They take themselves too seriously. And it makes them unlikeable!
If you can't back up your assertions then yes. But I would prefer to debate with anyone who can point to actual facts and justify their positions. Crying racist or assuming everyone with a counter to you is a closet member of the bnp is a poor position.
Read it back. You actually say "you find 'them' unlikeable" at one point.
How do you think a muslim would feel reading that?
Lance Catamaran said:
If you want to discount millions of years in evolution and think that eye contact and facial expressions play no part in the way humans communicate then I really can't help you.
I totally agree and will be boycotting my local Sunglasses Hut."They're trying to discount millions of years in evolution, Beryl!!!"
///ajd said:
Read it back. You actually say "you find 'them' unlikeable" at one point.
How do you think a muslim would feel reading that?
Honestly. I don't care. How do you think a muslim would feel reading that?
Islam, as I have said before, in EVERY incarnation from "moderate" to "hard line" (and as I said before I'm ignoring Islamist terrorists, since that's not obviously not the majority of practicing Muslims) is simply not acceptable to anyone who values freedom of thought, speech or dress. And the omnipresent second class treatment of women.
If they modify themselves to the present day. Drop the FGM. Drop the subjugation of women. Start to accept OTHER religions and beliefs as being of equal value. Stop the Halal slitting of throats (and the bs that its somehow more humane than a bolt gun to the head resulting instant death) . Accept that Gay people have just as much right to love whoever they dam well want.
They do ALL that and I'll change my view.
You'll understand if I don't hold my breath...
Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 23 April 23:10
Rich_W said:
Honestly. I don't care.
Islam, as I have said before, in EVERY incarnation from "moderate" to "hard line" (and as I said before I'm ignoring Islamist terrorists, since that's not fair on the majority of practicing Muslims) is simply not acceptable to anyone who values freedom of thought, speech or dress. And the omnipresent second class treatment of women.
If they modify themselves to the present day. Drop the FGM. Drop the subjugation of women. Start to accept OTHER religions and beliefs as being of equal value. Stop the Halal slitting of throats I'll start to accept. Accept that Gay people have just as much right to love whoever they dam well want. I'll change my view.
You'll understand if I don't hold my breath...
I'm guessing your opinion of 'moderate Islam' is limited to what Saint Nige told you - because in reality, it is nothing like you believe.Islam, as I have said before, in EVERY incarnation from "moderate" to "hard line" (and as I said before I'm ignoring Islamist terrorists, since that's not fair on the majority of practicing Muslims) is simply not acceptable to anyone who values freedom of thought, speech or dress. And the omnipresent second class treatment of women.
If they modify themselves to the present day. Drop the FGM. Drop the subjugation of women. Start to accept OTHER religions and beliefs as being of equal value. Stop the Halal slitting of throats I'll start to accept. Accept that Gay people have just as much right to love whoever they dam well want. I'll change my view.
You'll understand if I don't hold my breath...
Trabi601 said:
[
I'm guessing your opinion of 'moderate Islam' is limited to what Saint Nige told you - because in reality, it is nothing like you believe.
aah the old "lets bash Farage" thing. As if I've EVER voted UKIP I'm guessing your opinion of 'moderate Islam' is limited to what Saint Nige told you - because in reality, it is nothing like you believe.
To be fair my opinion of all Islam is fairly low.
But feel free to educate me without resorting to assuming my knuckles drag along the floor because I dislike a religion. (And I'll point out here I'm an atheist)
Please find me a moderate Muslim in the UK. Ask him or her to eat something not Halal. How do you really think that will play?
Rich_W said:
aah the old "lets bash Farage" thing. As if I've EVER voted UKIP
To be fair my opinion of all Islam is fairly low.
But feel free to educate me without resorting to assuming my knuckles drag along the floor because I dislike a religion. (And I'll point out here I'm an atheist)
Please find me a moderate Muslim in the UK. Ask him or her to eat something not Halal. How do you really think that will play?
Depends how drunk they are.To be fair my opinion of all Islam is fairly low.
But feel free to educate me without resorting to assuming my knuckles drag along the floor because I dislike a religion. (And I'll point out here I'm an atheist)
Please find me a moderate Muslim in the UK. Ask him or her to eat something not Halal. How do you really think that will play?
Rich_W said:
aah the old "lets bash Farage" thing. As if I've EVER voted UKIP
To be fair my opinion of all Islam is fairly low.
But feel free to educate me without resorting to assuming my knuckles drag along the floor because I dislike a religion. (And I'll point out here I'm an atheist)
Please find me a moderate Muslim in the UK. Ask him or her to eat something not Halal. How do you really think that will play?
Do you also apply that reasoning to Jews?To be fair my opinion of all Islam is fairly low.
But feel free to educate me without resorting to assuming my knuckles drag along the floor because I dislike a religion. (And I'll point out here I'm an atheist)
Please find me a moderate Muslim in the UK. Ask him or her to eat something not Halal. How do you really think that will play?
I'm not religious, but I am tolerant, maybe because I was brought up as a Methodist.
I work with Muslims on a daily basis - they are amongst the most kind, polite and generous of all my customers.
Trabi601 said:
I'm not religious, but I am tolerant, maybe because I was brought up as a Methodist.
But herein lies the problem. The tolerance that you have for other religions. Doesn't seem to flow from Islam towards others as freely. I'm tolerant of other religions because they demonstrate less hatred (as that is the word!) towards other faiths or beliefs. When was the last time you saw Christians shouting and protesting because of some perceived slight?Trabi601 said:
I work with Muslims on a daily basis - they are amongst the most kind, polite and generous of all my customers.
It's never clear from this site what your colour, sex or orientation is.But I suspect that if you were a woman in a more fitted dress, (or dressed like a prostitute as some idiot posted earlier!
) or obviously Gay, that goodwill would not be so freely applied. And again, there's my problem with the religion. It doesn't FIT with the world we live in.Rich_W said:
It's never clear from this site what your colour, sex or orientation is.
But I suspect that if you were a woman in a more fitted dress, (or dressed like a prostitute as some idiot posted earlier! ) or obviously Gay, that goodwill would not be so freely applied. And again, there's my problem with the religion. It doesn't FIT with the world we live in.
Believe it or not, around half of my peers at work are women. Their views are largely aligned with mine.But I suspect that if you were a woman in a more fitted dress, (or dressed like a prostitute as some idiot posted earlier!
) or obviously Gay, that goodwill would not be so freely applied. And again, there's my problem with the religion. It doesn't FIT with the world we live in.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff