Should England's money be spent in Scotland?

[Chipper]

simoid said:

We're one country. Scotland voted to stay in the United Kingdom. The nationalists want us to fall divided and have the support of a significant minority who cannot or will not see the damage.

Hopefully Scotland will begin to see the wood and trees soon enough and we can return to pulling in similar directions, without the political equivalent of nationalist internet trolls from Holyrood trying to stir up resentment around the UK.

Nationalists as usual going for divide and rule - and it's even spreading to the other scottish politicians who fear being seen as "anti-Scottish" as labelled by the SNP.

Personally I think the damage has been done already by the referendum. There was a chance if things were left to settle that as a nation we could of got over it but with the SNP predicted to take over all of the seats I can only see resentment and the separation of the Union.

[bodysnatcher]

stop with the victim card.
10p a litre difference is bks

Petrol in Perth 109.7-113.9 for unleaded
109.9 - 114.9 in Maidstone,
average UK price 112.5

and the most rural one I'll use this week - Lochgilphead - 112.9

source http://www.petrolprices.com/

infrastructure costs are higher, agreed, but that would apply equally to Cumbria or Cornwall

Edited by bodysnatcher on Sunday 29th March 17:52

[Mojocvh]

CtrlAltDel said:

If only...

[Kermit power]

Tannedbaldhead said:

Yup, you're right property costs are a fraction of the those in the South East. Good job as I'm on less than half the money I was on when I lived and worked in London and the Home Counties from 1998 to 2005. If you chose to live in Pitlochry the balance of probabilities is that you'd be earning even less than me doing the same job (I work in Glasgow). The nearest population centre and thus the town in which you'd be earning your pittance is Perth (45,000 people), 30 miles away. You'd be commuting by car, approx 15,000 miles a year. Factor in depreciation, tyres, servicing, expensive fuel (10p+ more a litre up there)additional insurance etc and you're £5k down getting to your work. People aren't well off in rural Scotland.

Then you have the costs. Pitlochry has a population of 2500 people but needs police, doctors, a Fire Station, Ambulances, rubbish collections, road maintenance, schools etc etc. All these services for 2500 people.
Lets take schools and roads as a for instance. Pitlochry HS has 200 pupils. That means a school was built, staffed, heated and maintained to educate 200 pupils. In the South East a school educates as much as 2000. Am exaggerating a bit as the SE School will be larger and more expensive to run but that's 10 times the cost to run a rural Scottish school as a London school. Roads? hundreds of miles of roads subject to much worse weather, snow, landslides etc cost a fortune to maintain and keep open. There can be more people living on one street in London bearing and sharing the cost of a tiny stretch of road than populate hundreds of miles of Highland roads.

Why should Londoners subsidise this? Because if they didn't the extremities would become impossible to live in. We'd all have to move to London further burdening London's resources and adding to the horrendous congestion.

Why not just pick one place - maybe Perth to continue the example - to develop economies of scale in? Alternatively, do what the French do in rural communities, and have state boarding schools for the kids during the week, which again would in this instance probably be in Perth.

[Croutons]

McWigglebum4th said:

arp1 said:

Devolved powers and the decision to do so

My neighbours kids get free education

Not one of my neighbours earns less then £100K

5 miles from us is a FOODBANK

justify this

Are all of your neighbours in the O&G game? Or is there another magic money tree in Scotland I don't know about?

I don't wish to derail the thread with this btw, if they are all on 6 figures then actually, they're contributing a fair bit however you look at it.

[Driver101]

I'd be interested to hear how much these people who have the strongest opinions about "keeping our money for ourselves" actually contribute to the economy themselves?

I'm somehow left with the opinion with the tone, attitude and the type of post,that many only want their unemployment benefit increased.

This topic just brings out a lot of knuckle draggers and has been done to death.

Edited by Driver101 on Monday 30th March 10:51

[simoid]

Driver101 said:

I'd be interested to hear how much these people who have the strongest opinions about "keeping our money for ourselves" actually contribute to the economy themselves?

I'm somehow left with the opinion with the tone, attitude and the type of post,that many only want their unemployment benefit increased.

This topic just brings out a lot of knuckle draggers and has been done to death.

Edited by Driver101 on Monday 30th March 10:51

Indeed. The vast majority aren't contributing, IIRC the figure is something like only 1/10 Scots pay more tax than the average public spending per person.

UK public spending is circa £720bn pa, so that's around £12k per head in taxes required.

[Kermit power]

Driver101 said:

I'd be interested to hear how much these people who have the strongest opinions about "keeping our money for ourselves" actually contribute to the economy themselves?

I'm somehow left with the opinion with the tone, attitude and the type of post,that many only want their unemployment benefit increased.

This topic just brings out a lot of knuckle draggers and has been done to death.

£46,912 in tax & NI on last year's P60. Add on VAT, Duty, Council Tax and all the rest and it's somewhere over £50k.

How much do I have to contribute before I'm entitled to feel hacked off about all the bribe money flooding into Scotland to keep them in a Union that I'd rather get rid of?

[Edinburger]

Kermit power said:

Driver101 said:

I'd be interested to hear how much these people who have the strongest opinions about "keeping our money for ourselves" actually contribute to the economy themselves?

I'm somehow left with the opinion with the tone, attitude and the type of post,that many only want their unemployment benefit increased.

This topic just brings out a lot of knuckle draggers and has been done to death.

£46,912 in tax & NI on last year's P60. Add on VAT, Duty, Council Tax and all the rest and it's somewhere over £50k.

How much do I have to contribute before I'm entitled to feel hacked off about all the bribe money flooding into Scotland to keep them in a Union that I'd rather get rid of?

What are you talking about - "bribe money flooding into Scotland"?

Are you saying that because per head we receive marginally more than other parts of the UK do? You do know why that is, yes?

[Kermit power]

Edinburger said:

What are you talking about - "bribe money flooding into Scotland"?

Are you saying that because per head we receive marginally more than other parts of the UK do? You do know why that is, yes?

Yes. It's because your weasel nationalist politicians refuse to use the tax raising powers they've been granted locally because they can keep milking the rest of us.

During the entire referendum campaign, I saw not one single sensible reason why I or anyone else English should want to keep Scotland in the Union. The whole bloody thing was "look how big the trough is for Scots, and look how much bigger we'll make it if you agree to stay".

[Edinburger]

Kermit power said:

Edinburger said:

What are you talking about - "bribe money flooding into Scotland"?

Are you saying that because per head we receive marginally more than other parts of the UK do? You do know why that is, yes?

Yes. It's because your weasel nationalist politicians refuse to use the tax raising powers they've been granted locally because they can keep milking the rest of us.

During the entire referendum campaign, I saw not one single sensible reason why I or anyone else English should want to keep Scotland in the Union. The whole bloody thing was "look how big the trough is for Scots, and look how much bigger we'll make it if you agree to stay".

Hang on a sec, what do you mean by "milking the rest of us"?

Do you know how much tax is raised in Scotland, England or anywhere else?

I live in Edinburgh and work for a company based in the City of London. My income tax is paid via a City of London tax office and not a Scottish one.

Here's a shocker for you - no one seems to know exactly how much tax is raised in different parts of the UK. Fact. That was very apparent during the run-up to the referendum.

Did you ask your MP for a "single sensible reason why... should want to keep Scotland in the Union"? because we all saw how they panicked when the polls were getting closer.

There's a number of damn good reasons for that.

This whole question of "Should England's money be spent in Scotland" is ludicrous because there is no "England's money".

[Digga]

Not sure what the fuss is about. English and Welsh can play it safe; if you're travelling to Scotland, fill up before you cross the border and take a packed lunch.

[jamiebae]

For a view of what a more heavily devolved UK would be like it's worth looking at Switzerland. Here each canton has the ability to set its own taxes, and below that level so does each town. It is the responsibility of the Gemeinde (town area) to look after its citizens, so if you can't afford your medical insurance it's up to them to look after you and pay the bills.

Because there is no 'NHS' and health insurance is mandatory you have another (big) bill to pay each month, but it means you can opt for the level of care you want (basic, private etc) and the standard premiums are regulated so it costs the same irrespective of underlying health conditions etc.

As a general rule if you chose to live in a sparsely populated and mountanous region then you pay more tax, as the canton needs more money to provide services. If you want to live in Jura then that's going to cost more than if you want to live in Zug.

Some regions choose to counter this by tiering the tax bands differently, in Geneva or Bern a very high income earner pays exponentially more compared to the average than someone in Valais or Schwyz, so generally they don't live there. Similarly I live in Zürich canton but if I earned a lot more money then I'd move to Zug or Schwyz to minimise my tax payments.

Then you have the wiered stuff - all car hire companies fleet management businesses are based in Appenzel (hence Swiss hire cars all have 'AI' numberplates) because that's where vehicle tax is lowest. Luzern is popular for businesses because tax is low there for companies but higher for individuals.

You then get towns reducing tax to try and attract new inhabitants and investment, or raising tax if they need to fill a hole in their finances, so it all gets massively complicated.

I don't see how Scotland could reduce income tax and still balance the books, without inflows from elsewhere, and I don't think it's desirable to put up tax in Scotland to support the required spending so the current system appears (to me) to be the best of both worlds.

[Kermit power]

Edinburger said:

Did you ask your MP for a "single sensible reason why... should want to keep Scotland in the Union"? because we all saw how they panicked when the polls were getting closer.

There's a number of damn good reasons for that.

Go on then.... Name some.

Edinburger said:

This whole question of "Should England's money be spent in Scotland" is ludicrous because there is no "England's money".

You're right, and that's why, for the first time in my life, I'm praying for Labour to do well at the elections. A minority Labour government having to enter into a coalition with the SNP is the surest possible route to English Independence and therefore English money that we'll ever have a shot at.

[richie99]

Edinburger said:

Hang on a sec, what do you mean by "milking the rest of us"?

Do you know how much tax is raised in Scotland, England or anywhere else?

I live in Edinburgh and work for a company based in the City of London. My income tax is paid via a City of London tax office and not a Scottish one.

Here's a shocker for you - no one seems to know exactly how much tax is raised in different parts of the UK. Fact. That was very apparent during the run-up to the referendum.

Did you ask your MP for a "single sensible reason why... should want to keep Scotland in the Union"? because we all saw how they panicked when the polls were getting closer.

There's a number of damn good reasons for that.

This whole question of "Should England's money be spent in Scotland" is ludicrous because there is no "England's money".

I don't have great deal of sympathy with your argument but it does have some merit. Unfortunately for you the 'mansion tax', or as we in the South East call it, the 'punitive tax you pay whilst struggling to pay the mortgage to live in a normal house', will be almost entirely raised here,, and we now know will be spent on nurses in Scotland to try to improve the abysmal life expectancy.

[jamiebae]

Edinburger said:

Hang on a sec, what do you mean by "milking the rest of us"?

Do you know how much tax is raised in Scotland, England or anywhere else?

I live in Edinburgh and work for a company based in the City of London. My income tax is paid via a City of London tax office and not a Scottish one.

Here's a shocker for you - no one seems to know exactly how much tax is raised in different parts of the UK. Fact. That was very apparent during the run-up to the referendum.

Did you ask your MP for a "single sensible reason why... should want to keep Scotland in the Union"? because we all saw how they panicked when the polls were getting closer.

There's a number of damn good reasons for that.

This whole question of "Should England's money be spent in Scotland" is ludicrous because there is no "England's money".

On the tax front, everyone is fully aware (including the Nats) that should Scotland have voted 'Yes' a huge number of financial services jobs would have moved South, along with the tax paying institutions connected to them.

'Why should we keep Scotland in the Union' is an easy one though - were the UK and Scotland to split it would have had a huge effect on the economy and business confidence both sides of the border while the terms of the split were negotiated. This would have paralysed the economy and plunged both sides deep into recession, which is reason enough to make a concerted effort to hold it together.

[simoid]

jamiebae said:

On the tax front, everyone is fully aware (including the Nats) that should Scotland have voted 'Yes' a huge number of financial services jobs would have moved South, along with the tax paying institutions connected to them.

'Why should we keep Scotland in the Union' is an easy one though - were the UK and Scotland to split it would have had a huge effect on the economy and business confidence both sides of the border while the terms of the split were negotiated. This would have paralysed the economy and plunged both sides deep into recession, which is reason enough to make a concerted effort to hold it together.

Which is why it's such a shame that the nationalists have galvanised their minority support and appear to be attempting ransom negotiations, while ensuring they tarnish the reputation of Scotland as a whole.

Hopefully the likes of Kermit Power will remember that they are a minority when all is said and done.

[Kermit power]

simoid said:

Which is why it's such a shame that the nationalists have galvanised their minority support and appear to be attempting ransom negotiations, while ensuring they tarnish the reputation of Scotland as a whole.

Hopefully the likes of Kermit Power will remember that they are a minority when all is said and done.

How do you know I'm in a minority? Unlike the Scots, we didn't get to vote in the referendum. I suspect if we had, the result may have been somewhat different.

[simoid]

Kermit power said:

simoid said:

Which is why it's such a shame that the nationalists have galvanised their minority support and appear to be attempting ransom negotiations, while ensuring they tarnish the reputation of Scotland as a whole.

Hopefully the likes of Kermit Power will remember that they are a minority when all is said and done.

How do you know I'm in a minority? Unlike the Scots, we didn't get to vote in the referendum. I suspect if we had, the result may have been somewhat different.

I was talking about the minority in Scotland.

I suspect that you're well into the realms of baseless speculation

[NicD]

Kermit power said:

£46,912 in tax & NI on last year's P60. Add on VAT, Duty, Council Tax and all the rest and it's somewhere over £50k.

How much do I have to contribute before I'm entitled to feel hacked off about all the bribe money flooding into Scotland to keep them in a Union that I'd rather get rid of?

With you there mate!