James Bond Racist

[turbobloke]

s2art said:

hairykrishna said:

Really? Late era Roger Moore is exactly the same character as Dalton or Craig's Bond? Or the same as the books?

Basically he just needs to be a posh seeming secret agent who's a bit handy and gets on well with the ladies. The idea that he needs to be white to somehow preserve the character seems daft to me.

Given the back story, he is a scottish son of a laird, with a swiss mother who went to an English public school and then joined the Navy. (not sure about Uni)...

Bond is arguably the most (in)famous graduate of the Oriental Studies Tripos at Cambridge, graduating with First Class honours and leaving his director of studies shaken but not stirred.

[popeyewhite]

Halb said:

Oakey said:

More like 'Bore', right?

Ahem..well...not anymore!

Cute, but with the male Thor one of Hollywood's top earners hell will freeze over before a female plays the son of Odin in a movie.

[Halb]

popeyewhite said:

Cute, but with the male Thor one of Hollywood's top earners hell will freeze over before a female plays the son of Odin in a movie.

Hel is a frozen wasteland.

Chris will deffo be in Thor 3 and most likely be in Avengers 3/4. Since Marvel own the Avengers it'll be certainly interesting if the new female Thor takes off in the comic books.

[BrassMan]

Oakey said:

Halb said:

The closet current analogy (for superheroes) would be the new Fantastic Four film, where Jonny Storm (Human Torch) is now black, where he once was white.
http://www.newsarama.com/23367-stan-lee-on-the-fan...

But nobody cares about Johnny Storm or Thor, especially Thor, not even the rest of the Avengers give a st about Thor.

I think that the problem may be that his sister stays white.

[Looket]

I'm assuming that means the great prophet too can and indeed should be depicted as a scantily clad heroine. A black one, with fking massive tits.

After all, he's not any more real than Thor. Or is that racist? Sexist? It must be something-ist!

[The Black Baron]

Been away for a couple of days. Did we agree that James Bond was a white English orphan who studied at Eton, or not?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

s2art said:

Given the back story, he is a scottish son of a laird, with a swiss mother who went to an English public school and then joined the Navy. (not sure about Uni). Just how many black people could fit that set of conditions?

I must move in different circles from you, because I don't know anyone, black or white, who fits that bill.

But I do know a black Swiss woman. So she could have been Bond's mum.

[s2art]

popeyewhite said:

Incredibly naive. Marvel have an increasingly large female and a static male readership. They have made the son of Odin...female. Purely for monetary gain. It's the complete antithesis of diversity.

But they didnt. The original son of Odin remained, called Odinson. The new Thor is merely a replacement for the holder of Mjolnir.

[Grumfutock]

s2art said:

popeyewhite said:

Incredibly naive. Marvel have an increasingly large female and a static male readership. They have made the son of Odin...female. Purely for monetary gain. It's the complete antithesis of diversity.

But they didnt. The original son of Odin remained, called Odinson. The new Thor is merely a replacement for the holder of Mjolnir.

You need to get out more.

[Asterix]

That prick from the labour party wants a woman as the next Bond.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3020146/Th...

[CAFEDEAD]

If that doesn't tell you it's a terrible idea, I don't know what does.

[Moonhawk]

Asterix said:

That prick from the labour party wants a woman as the next Bond.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3020146/Th...

What next - in the interest of equality, a male Bridget Jones or Mary Poppins (or doesn't it work that way)?

[McWigglebum4th]

FredClogs said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a black man playing Bond, seriously people get a grip, our secret services are chock full of brown folks these days, Bond films aren't all set in 1961.

How about a black bond from wales?

Would that cause you issues?

[johnfm]

hairykrishna said:

s2art said:

hairykrishna said:

Really? Late era Roger Moore is exactly the same character as Dalton or Craig's Bond? Or the same as the books?

Basically he just needs to be a posh seeming secret agent who's a bit handy and gets on well with the ladies. The idea that he needs to be white to somehow preserve the character seems daft to me.

Given the back story, he is a scottish son of a laird, with a swiss mother who went to an English public school and then joined the Navy. (not sure about Uni). Just how many black people could fit that set of conditions?

Not many. That back story was just Fleming fitting him to Connery though, so arguably everyone since didn't really match. Given that he's also supposed to be in his 30's I still think a black guy is less of a stretch than Moore

What? You think Fleming knew Sean Connery in the early 1950s?

Connery didn't start acting until 1954-ish, did he?

And Fleming is quoted as saying he didn't think Connery was anything like the Bond he'd written.

[Digga]

McWigglebum4th said:

FredClogs said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a black man playing Bond, seriously people get a grip, our secret services are chock full of brown folks these days, Bond films aren't all set in 1961.

How about a black bond from wales?

Would that cause you issues?

At a certain point, there's just too much divergence. The Welsh accent is never going to work with the character.

O/T My small mind is continually delighted and befuddled when confronted with people of Indian sub-continent descent with either Geordie or strong Scottish accents. A wonderfully incongruous combination.

[Disastrous]

johnfm said:

hairykrishna said:

s2art said:

hairykrishna said:

Really? Late era Roger Moore is exactly the same character as Dalton or Craig's Bond? Or the same as the books?

Basically he just needs to be a posh seeming secret agent who's a bit handy and gets on well with the ladies. The idea that he needs to be white to somehow preserve the character seems daft to me.

Given the back story, he is a scottish son of a laird, with a swiss mother who went to an English public school and then joined the Navy. (not sure about Uni). Just how many black people could fit that set of conditions?

Not many. That back story was just Fleming fitting him to Connery though, so arguably everyone since didn't really match. Given that he's also supposed to be in his 30's I still think a black guy is less of a stretch than Moore

What? You think Fleming knew Sean Connery in the early 1950s?

Connery didn't start acting until 1954-ish, did he?

And Fleming is quoted as saying he didn't think Connery was anything like the Bond he'd written.

There's hardly any backstory in the early books. Fleming added more and more once the films were already going with connery doing a good job in the role.

[Grumfutock]

Look the PC idiots wont be happy until Bond is a female Romanian lesbian with one leg, a speech impediment and colour blind.

[Disastrous]

Grumfutock said:

Look the PC idiots wont be happy until Bond is a female Romanian lesbian with one leg, a speech impediment and colour blind.

I think you're being a bit silly - it's just a film. And I don't think it should be about PC or inclusiveness at all. It should be about making a good Bond film.

Personally, a black Bond would feel wrong to me, but giving it thought, it's purely because I've had such a strong mental picture of the character for so many years. Up until DC, I'd have argued that Bond actors tended to be 'of a type' (Moore less so, but still tall, handsome to women etc) and that type tied pretty closely to Fleming's description (although he originally had him as resembling Hoagy Carmichael). For that reason, I have a pretty strong mental image of the character so a black, chinese, shirt, skinny, ginger, you-name-it bond wouldn't work for me. It would change the formula too fundamentally for me.

But could a good black actor pull off the part, ignoring all the background? Of course.

Is there a PC conspiracy to ruin Bond? Of course not.

[Asterix]

I have no issue with colour - the fundamental of a great Bond is that all the men want to be Bond, all the women want to be with Bond.

As long as those boxes are ticked, there should be no issue.

Rather than fanny about debating which nationailty, colour, height, hair colour etc... is more important, I'd just like to see a film that is really edgy, brutal and clever.

[hairykrishna]

johnfm said:

What? You think Fleming knew Sean Connery in the early 1950s?

Connery didn't start acting until 1954-ish, did he?

And Fleming is quoted as saying he didn't think Connery was anything like the Bond he'd written.

The stuff about his Scottish father and Swiss mother was in his obtituary, after he's assumed dead, in You Only Live Twice which was one of the last books. Wiki says it was published in 1964.

Most of the books are excellent but are generally much more serious than the films. My point was that Bond has never been particularly faithful to the source material and the films have changed in style with time and with the change of main actor plenty of times. I can't see any reason why a good bond film couldn't be made with a black actor while still clearly being a Bond film in more than name. Arguing that it's a bit different from Flemings original so shouldn't be done is as daft as arguing that it'd be no good because Bond doesn't chain smoke custom fags constantly or yum down amphetaminines every time he feels a bit under the weather.