James Bond Racist
Discussion
Mr_B said:
andymadmak said:
FredClogs said:
andymadmak said:
FredClogs said:
NinjaPower said:
I don't think I could ever watch another 007 film again if that Idris Elba bloke got to play Bond.
Why? He's good in that Luther and has a very cool car in it and he was legendary in The Wire.Is it just because he is black?
You could have a black actor to play Bond, Elba aint the man though imho
Rowan Atkinson would be a s
t Bond, agreed, he even did two films about being a st bond because he's non of those things.You've not explained yourself well at all.
Not being "right" to play a certain part does not make an actor a bad actor, it just means that he/she is not credible in the role. Elba is a fine actor (although I really hated him in Pacific Rim) but in my view he is not right for Bond. And no, it is not cos he is black.
Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
FredClogs said:
Keep your wig on Moneypenny.
Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
Are you really trying to suggest Elba has a better acting pedigree than Dalton ? Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
I can't see them picking a black actor for Bond however good he is. Just can't see it. Not when there are other white actors with the required voice, physicality and on screen presence to choose from (Tom Hiddlestone, Mark Strong, Michael Fassbender to name just three).
Janluke said:
Roy Lime said:
I met a racist last year - a real, old-fashioned, seventies-style throwback racist. He was a recovery driver bringing our broken-down car back to Cheshire from Kent and I spent three or four hours in his company. At first it was quite a shock; you just don't seem to get people like that any more. The journey was an utter cringefest. The guy was an absolute dick - Miss Lime and I still laugh about him now. As well as being a racist he was a borderline lunatic fantasist (some of his bks would put even the best of the PH bullstters to shame). He was that bloody offensive that I did, for a while, consider mentioning it to the insurance company but after thinking about it I realised there was no point. He was a sad little ahole and he would go on being a sad little ahole regardless. The shock factor was, for me, evidence that people like him are thankfully on their way out. I'd be happy to bet that the number of people like that on here is so vanishingly small as to be insignificant. As I say, you just don't get people like that these days. The vast majority couldn't give a stuff what particular hue a given individual is - it just doesn't matter any more.
Roger Moore was my favourite Bond, the one I grew up with and the one whose outlandish films can still make me smile. As someone pointed out earlier, there was some consternation amongst the purists when he won the role but so what, things move on. And if, in the natural order of things, a black Bond was selected I wouldn't have a problem.
But it doesn't seem like the natural order of things at all. It seems, instead, like pandering to the demands of the usual, po-faced, posturing middle-class (predominantly white) tossers who can't relax unless they've found something they'd like the rest of us to feel guilty about - the types who like the Prime Minister to apologise for events that occurred decades before he was even born. I can't help but think that people like that (and we all know the crowd I mean), in years to come, will be just as much a source of ridicule as the small-minded dhead I mentioned at the start.
Edited for grammar skillz.
I'm not convinced there are any less of these people about than there used to be. I think most of them have learned to keep their mouths shut and you just get an odd hint now and again as if they're fishing to see if your receptive to a bit of bigotry . In some ways I preferred it when they spoke freely at least you knew what you're dealing withks would put even the best of the PH bullstters to shame). He was that bloody offensive that I did, for a while, consider mentioning it to the insurance company but after thinking about it I realised there was no point. He was a sad little ahole and he would go on being a sad little ahole regardless. The shock factor was, for me, evidence that people like him are thankfully on their way out. I'd be happy to bet that the number of people like that on here is so vanishingly small as to be insignificant. As I say, you just don't get people like that these days. The vast majority couldn't give a stuff what particular hue a given individual is - it just doesn't matter any more. Roger Moore was my favourite Bond, the one I grew up with and the one whose outlandish films can still make me smile. As someone pointed out earlier, there was some consternation amongst the purists when he won the role but so what, things move on. And if, in the natural order of things, a black Bond was selected I wouldn't have a problem.
But it doesn't seem like the natural order of things at all. It seems, instead, like pandering to the demands of the usual, po-faced, posturing middle-class (predominantly white) tossers who can't relax unless they've found something they'd like the rest of us to feel guilty about - the types who like the Prime Minister to apologise for events that occurred decades before he was even born. I can't help but think that people like that (and we all know the crowd I mean), in years to come, will be just as much a source of ridicule as the small-minded d
head I mentioned at the start. Edited for grammar skillz.
Edited by Roy Lime on Wednesday 1st April 16:13
Sadly I feel people are less and less inclined to voice an opinion for fear of being branded as something. If someone wants to be racist then fine, people will judge them accordingly. What is scary is how many people these days just stay silent.
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
andymadmak said:
FredClogs said:
andymadmak said:
FredClogs said:
NinjaPower said:
I don't think I could ever watch another 007 film again if that Idris Elba bloke got to play Bond.
Why? He's good in that Luther and has a very cool car in it and he was legendary in The Wire.Is it just because he is black?
You could have a black actor to play Bond, Elba aint the man though imho
Rowan Atkinson would be a s
t Bond, agreed, he even did two films about being a st bond because he's non of those things.You've not explained yourself well at all.
Not being "right" to play a certain part does not make an actor a bad actor, it just means that he/she is not credible in the role. Elba is a fine actor (although I really hated him in Pacific Rim) but in my view he is not right for Bond. And no, it is not cos he is black.
Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
I don't have much of an opinion on it. I thought Craig would be rubbish but I think now he is probably the best. At the risk of upsetting the SNP crowd on PH, I always thought Connery was way overrated, but then maybe that's my English nationalism speaking ?
Oh, the current Moneypenny ? Perfect for the role and much sexier than the craggy old lady they used to have. There was no talk of her skin colour, mainly because unlike you and the BNP, not everyone is obsessed by it and probably thought on an acting level she could cut it. Had they suggested Scary Spice for the role, I think you would have had a few people doing the same and saying how they didn't see it as working,although you probably be hinting at the same racism. Can see you see the difference now ? Please say you can.
FredClogs said:
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. .
Roger Moore did some very good Bonds, actually. Live and Let Die is a great Bond exemplar. popeyewhite said:
FredClogs said:
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. .
Roger Moore did some very good Bonds, actually. Live and Let Die is a great Bond exemplar. Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
andymadmak said:
FredClogs said:
andymadmak said:
FredClogs said:
NinjaPower said:
I don't think I could ever watch another 007 film again if that Idris Elba bloke got to play Bond.
Why? He's good in that Luther and has a very cool car in it and he was legendary in The Wire.Is it just because he is black?
You could have a black actor to play Bond, Elba aint the man though imho
Rowan Atkinson would be a s
t Bond, agreed, he even did two films about being a st bond because he's non of those things.You've not explained yourself well at all.
Not being "right" to play a certain part does not make an actor a bad actor, it just means that he/she is not credible in the role. Elba is a fine actor (although I really hated him in Pacific Rim) but in my view he is not right for Bond. And no, it is not cos he is black.
Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
I don't have much of an opinion on it. I thought Craig would be rubbish but I think now he is probably the best. At the risk of upsetting the SNP crowd on PH, I always thought Connery was way overrated, but then maybe that's my English nationalism speaking ?
Oh, the current Moneypenny ? Perfect for the role and much sexier than the craggy old lady they used to have. There was no talk of her skin colour, mainly because unlike you and the BNP, not everyone is obsessed by it and probably thought on an acting level she could cut it. Had they suggested Scary Spice for the role, I think you would have had a few people doing the same and saying how they didn't see it as working,although you probably be hinting at the same racism. Can see you see the difference now ? Please say you can.
And it was you who pitched in to ad hom me, I've never suggested anyone was racist.
Get a grip of yourself fella.
FredClogs said:
popeyewhite said:
FredClogs said:
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. .
Roger Moore did some very good Bonds, actually. Live and Let Die is a great Bond exemplar. 
so 70s.mybrainhurts said:
WD39 said:
nyxster said:
The author Ian Fleming maybe? Pretty sure he described him as being blue eyed, blonde hair and was the son of a Scottish Laird. I like Idris Elba and think he's an awesome actor, but they didn't ask Daniel Craig to play Nelson Mandela, now did they?
If they want a Black MI6 agent, they should just create a new character, 008 and run a parallel storyline like they did with the Bourne franchise.
Grey eyes, black hair with a 'comma' of hair dropping above one eye.If they want a Black MI6 agent, they should just create a new character, 008 and run a parallel storyline like they did with the Bourne franchise.
Someone posted that I needed a Bond forum
popeyewhite said:
FredClogs said:
popeyewhite said:
FredClogs said:
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. .
Roger Moore did some very good Bonds, actually. Live and Let Die is a great Bond exemplar. so 70s.Craig has failed a bit where Dalton did, taking it far too seriously and the films being too violent.
If they can't be played over and over at Christmas and on consecutive weekends during the daytime, without cutting half the films down because of pointless violent scenes, they'll never last.
Dave
popeyewhite said:
FredClogs said:
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. .
Roger Moore did some very good Bonds, actually. Live and Let Die is a great Bond exemplar. ahh, that's what Clogs doesn't like... PATRIOTISM! And the fact of Moore's plummy Queen's English accent.
The whole cinema I was in back in 1977 totally erupted in combined loud patriotic cheer when that silence (as he went off the snow cliffs) ended, and Bond's Union Jack (sorry, 'Flag', but THEN it was the Jack!) parachute opened.
One of the best Bond scenes.
Clogs would hate that. The thought that this nation was once patriotic. But he was probably in nappies then, or was he even born?
Fast forward to cinema today? When I went to see Spectre (worst of Craig's bunch imo, Skyfall miles superior) the place stunk of popcorn, people were eating buckets of it, and dropping it - at the end the place was littered with popcorn, and of course it was all downed with gallons of Coke (no wonder this nation has become obese!).
Compare that with 1977, when we had manners, and there was hardly an obese person in sight, definitely not a PC one!
Still, they call it 'Progress' don't they?
gavsdavs said:
FredClogs said:
Keep your wig on Moneypenny.
Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
Are you really trying to suggest Elba has a better acting pedigree than Dalton ? Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
I can't see them picking a black actor for Bond however good he is. Just can't see it. Not when there are other white actors with the required voice, physicality and on screen presence to choose from (Tom Hiddlestone, Mark Strong, Michael Fassbender to name just three).
So theoretically, you could argue, nothing is off limits - Bond could be a recluse, a virgin, black, mixed race, not particularly active, a woman, etc. The question is what qualities does a Bond actor have to be capable of portraying to make them 'Bond' in the public's mind. I have a number but none of them regard skin colour. Not only Moneypenny as pointed out above but also, the American agent Felix Leiter has been both black & white. M has been both male & female.
In fact, having had 6 or so male Bonds it could be refreshing to have something totally different rather than just a slight variation. There are certain elements of Bond which it would be difficult to lose, one of which is that for instance, traditionally his education/background is always at least minor public school with the accent and everything else that goes with that, such as his penchant for vintage champagne. Speaking like you've grown up on a council estate or looking like you prefer beer to champagne would be difficult for many to accept in a Bond. But those factors have nothing to do with skin colour, especially for a Bond set in 2016. Likewise in principle, no reason a Bond couldn't be gay and/or a woman - to me, I associate Bond with being promiscuous more than I worry about his (or her) sexuality - in fact, a lesbian Bond could work very well but I'd want to see them flirt with Moneypenny because I associate that flirting with Bond. So the point is, you could have a very different approach to casting work very well, providing they still retain, even if it's with a twist, plenty of elements we recognize as being Bond
What I find odd about those who insist Bond needs to be x or y is that arguably, one of the biggest changes to the way Bond was portrayed was the very first change from Connery to Moore - they had very different approaches to how it was played. Surely the difference in physicality & humour between say the way Craig and Moore play Bond are more different than the effect having Bond played by a black actor might have
dandarez said:
The whole cinema I was in back in 1977 totally erupted in combined loud patriotic cheer when that silence (as he went off the snow cliffs) ended, and Bond's Union Jack (sorry, 'Flag', but THEN it was the Jack!) parachute opened.
One of the best Bond scenes.
I remember that. Back then people also eagerly awaited the opening sequence, which didn't involve buckets of blood, brutal martial art skills, motorbikes, machine guns (well, a bit maybe) and broken bones. Usually a bit of a scrap in an exotic location, Moore got the woman and with one raised eyebrow hit us with the one-liner which set the tone for the rest of the movie. Great stuff.One of the best Bond scenes.
jonby said:
gavsdavs said:
FredClogs said:
Keep your wig on Moneypenny.
Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
Are you really trying to suggest Elba has a better acting pedigree than Dalton ? Notice no one really complained about her going darker skinned.
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. Can you? Really? But I'm obviously not as expert in the field as Ninja Power.
I can't see them picking a black actor for Bond however good he is. Just can't see it. Not when there are other white actors with the required voice, physicality and on screen presence to choose from (Tom Hiddlestone, Mark Strong, Michael Fassbender to name just three).
So theoretically, you could argue, nothing is off limits - Bond could be a recluse, a virgin, black, mixed race, not particularly active, a woman, etc. The question is what qualities does a Bond actor have to be capable of portraying to make them 'Bond' in the public's mind. I have a number but none of them regard skin colour. Not only Moneypenny as pointed out above but also, the American agent Felix Leiter has been both black & white. M has been both male & female.
In fact, having had 6 or so male Bonds it could be refreshing to have something totally different rather than just a slight variation. There are certain elements of Bond which it would be difficult to lose, one of which is that for instance, traditionally his education/background is always at least minor public school with the accent and everything else that goes with that, such as his penchant for vintage champagne. Speaking like you've grown up on a council estate or looking like you prefer beer to champagne would be difficult for many to accept in a Bond. But those factors have nothing to do with skin colour, especially for a Bond set in 2016. Likewise in principle, no reason a Bond couldn't be gay and/or a woman - to me, I associate Bond with being promiscuous more than I worry about his (or her) sexuality - in fact, a lesbian Bond could work very well but I'd want to see them flirt with Moneypenny because I associate that flirting with Bond. So the point is, you could have a very different approach to casting work very well, providing they still retain, even if it's with a twist, plenty of elements we recognize as being Bond
What I find odd about those who insist Bond needs to be x or y is that arguably, one of the biggest changes to the way Bond was portrayed was the very first change from Connery to Moore - they had very different approaches to how it was played. Surely the difference in physicality & humour between say the way Craig and Moore play Bond are more different than the effect having Bond played by a black actor might have
What is it today with re-inventing things and making them s
t?I've always viewed James Bond as a code name the same as 007. Different spies take on the role as the previous ones set sail into the sunset with their chosen Bond girl. That's why he appears across the times with different looks and personalities.
One thing Bond has never been is 'Street' which is something that Idris specialises in. Adrian Lester is a possibility but would need to bulk up a bit.
One thing Bond has never been is 'Street' which is something that Idris specialises in. Adrian Lester is a possibility but would need to bulk up a bit.
Mr Whippy said:
popeyewhite said:
FredClogs said:
popeyewhite said:
FredClogs said:
There's been some awful Bonds over the years, Timothy Dalton, Roger Moore, Lazenby - I just can't see a well rounded experienced time served actor like Idris Elba doing any worse than those three. .
Roger Moore did some very good Bonds, actually. Live and Let Die is a great Bond exemplar. so 70s.Craig has failed a bit where Dalton did, taking it far too seriously and the films being too violent.
If they can't be played over and over at Christmas and on consecutive weekends during the daytime, without cutting half the films down because of pointless violent scenes, they'll never last.
Dave
Watching from 'Dr No' until now gives an exellent overview, so far, of the genre the different actors, directors and crew.
I'm a Connery man myself ever since successfully gaining entry to Dr No, an 'A' film in those days, at the age of 12.
They all, even Lazenby, have their charm and make a good fist of the role, while being totally different.
I can recommend 'Some Kind of Hero' as a facinating look at the story behind all of the Bond movies, with plenty of detail and not known facts in book form for the first time.
Name dropping segment. I have now met three Bonds in the course of my work, Connery, Mooore and Brosnan.
All charming and happy to sign autographes. End of boasting.
Next Bond? Tom Hardy?
jonby said:
We are well past the stage where a new Bond actor was seen to take up from a continuity/timeline perspective where the previous Bond left off - that arguably was the case to a large extent for the first 3/4 Bonds. After that, it's been rebooted and the lines have been blurred about how any one Bond fits into the timeline with all the others.
So theoretically, you could argue, nothing is off limits - Bond could be a recluse, a virgin, black, mixed race, not particularly active, a woman, etc. The question is what qualities does a Bond actor have to be capable of portraying to make them 'Bond' in the public's mind. I have a number but none of them regard skin colour. Not only Moneypenny as pointed out above but also, the American agent Felix Leiter has been both black & white. M has been both male & female.
In fact, having had 6 or so male Bonds it could be refreshing to have something totally different rather than just a slight variation. There are certain elements of Bond which it would be difficult to lose, one of which is that for instance, traditionally his education/background is always at least minor public school with the accent and everything else that goes with that, such as his penchant for vintage champagne. Speaking like you've grown up on a council estate or looking like you prefer beer to champagne would be difficult for many to accept in a Bond. But those factors have nothing to do with skin colour, especially for a Bond set in 2016. Likewise in principle, no reason a Bond couldn't be gay and/or a woman - to me, I associate Bond with being promiscuous more than I worry about his (or her) sexuality - in fact, a lesbian Bond could work very well but I'd want to see them flirt with Moneypenny because I associate that flirting with Bond. So the point is, you could have a very different approach to casting work very well, providing they still retain, even if it's with a twist, plenty of elements we recognize as being Bond
What I find odd about those who insist Bond needs to be x or y is that arguably, one of the biggest changes to the way Bond was portrayed was the very first change from Connery to Moore - they had very different approaches to how it was played. Surely the difference in physicality & humour between say the way Craig and Moore play Bond are more different than the effect having Bond played by a black actor might have
I'm quite glad that you aren't casting the next one! So theoretically, you could argue, nothing is off limits - Bond could be a recluse, a virgin, black, mixed race, not particularly active, a woman, etc. The question is what qualities does a Bond actor have to be capable of portraying to make them 'Bond' in the public's mind. I have a number but none of them regard skin colour. Not only Moneypenny as pointed out above but also, the American agent Felix Leiter has been both black & white. M has been both male & female.
In fact, having had 6 or so male Bonds it could be refreshing to have something totally different rather than just a slight variation. There are certain elements of Bond which it would be difficult to lose, one of which is that for instance, traditionally his education/background is always at least minor public school with the accent and everything else that goes with that, such as his penchant for vintage champagne. Speaking like you've grown up on a council estate or looking like you prefer beer to champagne would be difficult for many to accept in a Bond. But those factors have nothing to do with skin colour, especially for a Bond set in 2016. Likewise in principle, no reason a Bond couldn't be gay and/or a woman - to me, I associate Bond with being promiscuous more than I worry about his (or her) sexuality - in fact, a lesbian Bond could work very well but I'd want to see them flirt with Moneypenny because I associate that flirting with Bond. So the point is, you could have a very different approach to casting work very well, providing they still retain, even if it's with a twist, plenty of elements we recognize as being Bond
What I find odd about those who insist Bond needs to be x or y is that arguably, one of the biggest changes to the way Bond was portrayed was the very first change from Connery to Moore - they had very different approaches to how it was played. Surely the difference in physicality & humour between say the way Craig and Moore play Bond are more different than the effect having Bond played by a black actor might have
To answer your post generally, I think it's quite simple why Bond has to be X, Y or Z:
Because that's what he is.
He is a character, and has been described at length in literature and on screen in the past and now an expectation exists. There is no reason why he couldn't be gay, Asian, or black but then why bother calling him James Bond?
Why not start a new franchise with a new character called, oh I dunno, Lucifer Box, or Charlie Chan or John Shaft to cover off the examples you give?
For me a black/brown/whatever Bond doesn't work, not out of racism but because Bond is white. In the same way a white Shaft would be ridiculous.
Of course there is no reason why the character couldn't have been something else originally, but he wasn't, and now he is a certain way and that's that.
WD39 said:
Next Bond? Tom Hardy?
They need someone who doesn't fight their way through the film with rippling muscles and a six pack. Hitting each other in the faces for minutes on end in pointless fight scenes that do nothing to tell a story.After the Craig films where he just bludgeons his way to a win, a Bond who rarely gets in a fight if at all, and at most just shoots someone when absolutely necessary, would be nice!
Dave
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