Tonight's seven~horse TV debate. Place your bets.
Discussion
Thorodin said:
While watching the very self-satisfied Nicola, it dawned on me that we are being taken large. It is just possible, even likely, that Alec, realising that he personally riled more Scots voters than any other cause and that it was he that 'lost' the vote, made a pact with Nicola. Alec would strategically withdraw from the pointy end allowing she to take the reins so he could return to prominence if and when SNP became significant in Westminster. Then referendum with impetus.
The one positive that can come out of itIt's easy to bang the immigrant drum as its emotive and its UKIPs opportunity to withdraw and control borders BUT the big problem with the NHS and all public services, is the drain caused by those who contribute the least but take the most. The large non-working whites who take what they can whilst maintaining poor lifestyles out of choice and not poverty, then expect to get all of the care they need when suffering from diet related illness, respiratory problems etc. I can't be the only one who is disgusted when they see smokers sitting outside of the hospital doors sitting in wheelchairs hooked up to drips.
Take the same bunch who take up more than 50% of police time, making petty complaints because they can't look after themselves. I'm not talking about people genuinely in desperate need.
We need a party who will point that out and address it, not complain that foreigners are our main problem.
Take the same bunch who take up more than 50% of police time, making petty complaints because they can't look after themselves. I'm not talking about people genuinely in desperate need.
We need a party who will point that out and address it, not complain that foreigners are our main problem.
Chicken Chaser said:
We need a party who will point that out and address it, not complain that foreigners are our main problem.
Not the main problem but a big problem none the less. Unless it is as you say, specifically addressed, it will only get bigger along with other associated problems. It is something many people are increasingly more angry about and will show that come the GE. On May 7th, I am convinced the Nation will send a largely unexpected hard message to those we have entrusted the Nation's well being to for far too long. Due to their short sighted pc-riddled handling of far too many things they have mainly failed to deliver. Thereby creating many of these self-inflicted problems.Avidly consume their incessantly positively presented figures and statistics supporting their stance on these things if you desire. I much rather than consume that same old regurgitated stuff, prefer to rely on the evidence of my own ears and eyes.
vonuber said:
bad company said:
Scuffers said:
Bradgate said:
Except they would probably use different terminology to describe homosexuals....
you do talk rubbish!Just watched the first half of the election debate...
Christ, I would normally have given Ed a bit of slack given the slagging off he gets on here, but the stuff coming out his mouth alone was utterly cringe-worthy
(and that's before the soul syphoning starting at the camera, gestures etc.). He made whats-her-face-green-leader seems quite reasonable in comparison...
Nick and Cameron weren't too bad, Farage had potential but seemed to focus on immigration/EU a bit much (shame as I like the UKIP). Think the welsh party leader came across better than either of them.
Can see why everyone was raving about Sturgeon today, but I just can't agree with her polices...
I suspect the second half was more of the same?
Christ, I would normally have given Ed a bit of slack given the slagging off he gets on here, but the stuff coming out his mouth alone was utterly cringe-worthy
(and that's before the Nick and Cameron weren't too bad, Farage had potential but seemed to focus on immigration/EU a bit much (shame as I like the UKIP). Think the welsh party leader came across better than either of them.
Can see why everyone was raving about Sturgeon today, but I just can't agree with her polices...
I suspect the second half was more of the same?
Edited by MarkRSi on Friday 3rd April 22:50
MGJohn said:
Chicken Chaser said:
We need a party who will point that out and address it, not complain that foreigners are our main problem.
Not the main problem but a big problem none the less. Unless it is as you say, specifically addressed, it will only get bigger along with other associated problems. It is something many people are increasingly more angry about and will show that come the GE. On May 7th, I am convinced the Nation will send a largely unexpected hard message to those we have entrusted the Nation's well being to for far too long. Due to their short sighted pc-riddled handling of far too many things they have mainly failed to deliver. Thereby creating many of these self-inflicted problems.Avidly consume their incessantly positively presented figures and statistics supporting their stance on these things if you desire. I much rather than consume that same old regurgitated stuff, prefer to rely on the evidence of my own ears and eyes.
irocfan said:
MGJohn said:
Chicken Chaser said:
We need a party who will point that out and address it, not complain that foreigners are our main problem.
Not the main problem but a big problem none the less. Unless it is as you say, specifically addressed, it will only get bigger along with other associated problems. It is something many people are increasingly more angry about and will show that come the GE. On May 7th, I am convinced the Nation will send a largely unexpected hard message to those we have entrusted the Nation's well being to for far too long. Due to their short sighted pc-riddled handling of far too many things they have mainly failed to deliver. Thereby creating many of these self-inflicted problems.Avidly consume their incessantly positively presented figures and statistics supporting their stance on these things if you desire. I much rather than consume that same old regurgitated stuff, prefer to rely on the evidence of my own ears and eyes.
Sadly dood, your closing remark no doubt will be 100% accurate.
Chicken Chaser said:
It's easy to bang the immigrant drum as its emotive and its UKIPs opportunity to withdraw and control borders BUT the big problem with the NHS and all public services, is the drain caused by those who contribute the least but take the most. The large non-working whites who take what they can whilst maintaining poor lifestyles out of choice and not poverty, then expect to get all of the care they need when suffering from diet related illness, respiratory problems etc. I can't be the only one who is disgusted when they see smokers sitting outside of the hospital doors sitting in wheelchairs hooked up to drips.
Take the same bunch who take up more than 50% of police time, making petty complaints because they can't look after themselves. I'm not talking about people genuinely in desperate need.
We need a party who will point that out and address it, not complain that foreigners are our main problem.
I agree, but the thing with domestic piss takers is they have a vote, but they also have money in savings, pensions, and income... so in the future they CAN pay for their excessive health care needs... not to mention they've probably paid in for their entire lives up until that point so are somewhat entitled to this care, albeit a bit wasteful and silly to provide.Take the same bunch who take up more than 50% of police time, making petty complaints because they can't look after themselves. I'm not talking about people genuinely in desperate need.
We need a party who will point that out and address it, not complain that foreigners are our main problem.
A recent heath care seeking immigrant on the other hand can't provide any return for their care either in the short or longer terms.
Immigration is clearly a hot potato because our EU membership means no control... and immigration in potentially even higher numbers WILL impact the UK infrastructure. And at a time when we have public service cuts, that simply accelerates degradation of services for everyone.
As Farage said, if Greece folds, and people already travel through all the other 'free travel' countries of Italy, France, Germany, Spain etc to get to the UK, then a LOT more people will be coming to the UK as the poorer EU countries falter and potentially fail.
The EU project is doomed to failure at this point... to leave our borders wide open to the aftermath would be bonkers!
Mr Whippy said:
I agree, but the thing with domestic piss takers is they have a vote, but they also have money in savings, pensions, and income... so in the future they CAN pay for their excessive health care needs... not to mention they've probably paid in for their entire lives up until that point so are somewhat entitled to this care, albeit a bit wasteful and silly to provide.
You would probably be surprised how many working people have no money, no savings, no assets and no pension. Listening to some of the people at work talking about their finances is scary, when they say they're got no money they mean just that, nothing. Mr Whippy said:
I agree, but the thing with domestic piss takers is they have a vote, but they also have money in savings, pensions, and income... so in the future they CAN pay for their excessive health care needs... not to mention they've probably paid in for their entire lives up until that point so are somewhat entitled to this care, albeit a bit wasteful and silly to provide.
A recent heath care seeking immigrant on the other hand can't provide any return for their care either in the short or longer terms.
Immigration is clearly a hot potato because our EU membership means no control... and immigration in potentially even higher numbers WILL impact the UK infrastructure. And at a time when we have public service cuts, that simply accelerates degradation of services for everyone.
As Farage said, if Greece folds, and people already travel through all the other 'free travel' countries of Italy, France, Germany, Spain etc to get to the UK, then a LOT more people will be coming to the UK as the poorer EU countries falter and potentially fail.
The EU project is doomed to failure at this point... to leave our borders wide open to the aftermath would be bonkers!
You're talking about the middle class with poor lifestyles. I'm talking about the feckless underclass which out breeds your average working/lower middle. They have no income, no savings and yet still expect the state to provide them with enough money for 20 a day, alcohol and a 50 inch TV with sky in their rent free council houses. There are too many of them who generation after generation have taken without giving anything. They know no different.A recent heath care seeking immigrant on the other hand can't provide any return for their care either in the short or longer terms.
Immigration is clearly a hot potato because our EU membership means no control... and immigration in potentially even higher numbers WILL impact the UK infrastructure. And at a time when we have public service cuts, that simply accelerates degradation of services for everyone.
As Farage said, if Greece folds, and people already travel through all the other 'free travel' countries of Italy, France, Germany, Spain etc to get to the UK, then a LOT more people will be coming to the UK as the poorer EU countries falter and potentially fail.
The EU project is doomed to failure at this point... to leave our borders wide open to the aftermath would be bonkers!
Chicken Chaser said:
Mr Whippy said:
The EU project is doomed to failure .......
You're talking about the middle class with poor lifestyles. I'm talking about the feckless underclass which out breeds your average working/lower middle. They have no income, no savings and yet still expect the state to provide them with enough money for 20 a day, alcohol and a 50 inch TV with sky in their rent free council houses. There are too many of them who generation after generation have taken without giving anything. They know no different.Maybe over the years, the Two Eds outfit have deliberately supported that state funded "out breeding class" who if they bother to vote, have bred more Labour voters... Stands to reason ... Bonus. Figures ? ... or, not.
The Government and not the taxpayer will always provide... yeah ... right.
All so very depressing and come May 7th, will that depression lift? ... Fat chance ..
RYH64E said:
Mr Whippy said:
I agree, but the thing with domestic piss takers is they have a vote, but they also have money in savings, pensions, and income... so in the future they CAN pay for their excessive health care needs... not to mention they've probably paid in for their entire lives up until that point so are somewhat entitled to this care, albeit a bit wasteful and silly to provide.
You would probably be surprised how many working people have no money, no savings, no assets and no pension. Listening to some of the people at work talking about their finances is scary, when they say they're got no money they mean just that, nothing. Yes, just like you, until I retired a few years ago, I was sometimes surprised to hear colleagues discussing their personal finance problems. Mind you, they somehow managed to have a newish BMW on near crippling monthly payment schemes and at least one foreign holiday each year. Always ran out of money by week three each month.
Even career professionals would be in trouble if an unexpected bill for merely a few hundred cropped up. Nice car they didn't really need and holidays each year though.
Then some accuse me of being lucky having paid off a once hefty mortgage and I actually own my cars. Yeah ... pure luck.
MGJohn said:
RYH64E said:
Mr Whippy said:
I agree, but the thing with domestic piss takers is they have a vote, but they also have money in savings, pensions, and income... so in the future they CAN pay for their excessive health care needs... not to mention they've probably paid in for their entire lives up until that point so are somewhat entitled to this care, albeit a bit wasteful and silly to provide.
You would probably be surprised how many working people have no money, no savings, no assets and no pension. Listening to some of the people at work talking about their finances is scary, when they say they're got no money they mean just that, nothing. Yes, just like you, until I retired a few years ago, I was sometimes surprised to hear colleagues discussing their personal finance problems. Mind you, they somehow managed to have a newish BMW on near crippling monthly payment schemes and at least one foreign holiday each year. Always ran out of money by week three each month.
Even career professionals would be in trouble if an unexpected bill for merely a few hundred cropped up. Nice car they didn't really need and holidays each year though.
Then some accuse me of being lucky having paid off a once hefty mortgage and I actually own my cars. Yeah ... pure luck.
Chicken Chaser said:
You're talking about the middle class with poor lifestyles. I'm talking about the feckless underclass which out breeds your average working/lower middle. They have no income, no savings and yet still expect the state to provide them with enough money for 20 a day, alcohol and a 50 inch TV with sky in their rent free council houses. There are too many of them who generation after generation have taken without giving anything. They know no different.
Yes it's annoying, but in actual fact they represent a very small minority. The reality is that about half of the UK population receive more from that state, than they put into it by taxation. JensenA said:
Yes it's annoying, but in actual fact they represent a very small minority. The reality is that about half of the UK population receive more from that state, than they put into it by taxation.
If that is true id be intrested to see howAnd where the data is from
I accept the generalised comment that this was a response to
MGJohn said:
Even career professionals would be in trouble if an unexpected bill for merely a few hundred cropped up. Nice car they didn't really need and holidays each year though.
Within reason, income appears to have little effect on savings levels. I know plenty of people with substantial incomes and apparently affluent lifestyles who've got nothing left at the end of the month and nothing in the bank, I also know people with very modest incomes who've managed to build up a decent amount of savings. RYH64E said:
MGJohn said:
Even career professionals would be in trouble if an unexpected bill for merely a few hundred cropped up. Nice car they didn't really need and holidays each year though.
Within reason, income appears to have little effect on savings levels. I know plenty of people with substantial incomes and apparently affluent lifestyles who've got nothing left at the end of the month and nothing in the bank, I also know people with very modest incomes who've managed to build up a decent amount of savings. Might be an old fashioned statement, but it's as true today as it always was. It's a shame a lot of people can't seem to adhere to it. They'd rather rent the latest shiny shiny German derv on the never never, and 60" TVs, iProducts and other crapola they just don't need.
Very depressing
V88Dicky said:
RYH64E said:
MGJohn said:
Even career professionals would be in trouble if an unexpected bill for merely a few hundred cropped up. Nice car they didn't really need and holidays each year though.
Within reason, income appears to have little effect on savings levels. I know plenty of people with substantial incomes and apparently affluent lifestyles who've got nothing left at the end of the month and nothing in the bank, I also know people with very modest incomes who've managed to build up a decent amount of savings. Might be an old fashioned statement, but it's as true today as it always was. It's a shame a lot of people can't seem to adhere to it. They'd rather rent the latest shiny shiny German derv on the never never, and 60" TVs, iProducts and other crapola they just don't need.
Very depressing
So those needlessly scrimping and saving should spend more, while those living beyond their means should spend less.
With the new pension freedom, we will see more spending.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff