EU Rules Out Renegotiation
Discussion
Until Juncker is gone anyway (end of 2019).
Tell me all about how Cameron is the only one that can deliver on an EU referendum.
I believe his commitment was for a referendum after negotiations.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brussels-vows-block-david...
Tell me all about how Cameron is the only one that can deliver on an EU referendum.
I believe his commitment was for a referendum after negotiations.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brussels-vows-block-david...
Cameron would have been lucky if the EU tossed him even the smallest bone to take back to the UK. It never was up for any serious negotiation and you ain't getting a referendum either. The Tory party won't win an election outright and don't be too surprised if there's another coalition with the LibDems ( assuming they don't suffer a complete wipe-out ) for Cameron to then use as the reason why. Same with anyone else too, unless Ukip causes the biggest election shock since day one and some how gets a stack of MPs. Even if they did he would run a mile.
grumbledoak said:
Cameron was lying to try to get elected.
They're all lying to get elected, that's how elections work?We expect a bit of lying to satisfy our own political bents. As voters we can't be honest with ourselves, how can we expect the people running for office to resist pandering and lying of we can't even exit our own illusions? The actions of the people we elect are a reflection of the type of society we have created.
speedy_thrills said:
The actions of the people we elect are a reflection of the type of society we have created.
Rubbish. The actions of these people are a reflection only of the shameless, venal, lying w
kers who put themselves forward. The fact that few decent people want to share an office building with them does not mean we actually want them in charge. Every so often we have to round these people up and kill them. For a short while after that you may claim that those in power are a reflection of us as a society. Then the long, slow slide begins again. Ours is near the end of a cycle.
Edited by grumbledoak on Wednesday 15th April 03:15
grumbledoak said:
Rubbish. The actions of these people are a reflection only of the shameless, venal, lying wkers who put themselves forward. The fact that few decent people want to share an office building with them does not mean we actually want them in charge.
So last election over 65% of the UKs eligible voters turnout out to vote for people they didn't want to elect as MPs? kers who put themselves forward. The fact that few decent people want to share an office building with them does not mean we actually want them in charge.Also having met many MPs (mostly left of centre) I would not described them as "shameless, venal, lying w
kers". Overwhelmingly the ones I've met have been thoughtful, intelligent, educated people who have come from successful backgrounds and genuinely wanted to tackle hitherto intractable problems at a national level. grumbledoak said:
Every so often we have to round these people up and kill them. For a short while after that you may claim that those in power are a reflection of us as a society. Then the long, slow slide begins again. Ours is near the end of a cycle.
I recall no such cycle of violent revolution existing in British politics. In fact generally Britain has been an acquiescent democracy with British people readily able to put unity ahead of politics when required. The British have been able to astutely navigate and negotiate desirable political outcomes as well as balancing the needs and desires in a pragmatic way.Art0ir said:
Until Juncker is gone anyway (end of 2019).
Tell me all about how Cameron is the only one that can deliver on an EU referendum.
I believe his commitment was for a referendum after negotiations.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brussels-vows-block-david...
Tell me all about how Cameron is the only one that can deliver on an EU referendum.
I believe his commitment was for a referendum after negotiations.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brussels-vows-block-david...
Surely there is no suprise to this?
I don't mean Junker making comment to interfere with the UK General Election, but in the stance taken.
Arguably people liked the candour when it was said that Scotland, if it had voted for independence, could magic itself from being a region of the EU to being a Nation / Member State of the EU.
At least Junker's clarity on this will force some debate - and if it does no more than expose DC's weasel word 'promise' for what it is, them so be it.
I don't mean Junker making comment to interfere with the UK General Election, but in the stance taken.
Arguably people liked the candour when it was said that Scotland, if it had voted for independence, could magic itself from being a region of the EU to being a Nation / Member State of the EU.
At least Junker's clarity on this will force some debate - and if it does no more than expose DC's weasel word 'promise' for what it is, them so be it.
gruffalo said:
A referendum in 2017 has been promised.
If the EU really won't listen to one of its member states and talk about what works for that member well shame on it but we still get a referendum in 2017.
I don't understand where the supposed lies are?
Cameron said there would be one if he couldn't get reform, it appears from this that he won't be able to.If the EU really won't listen to one of its member states and talk about what works for that member well shame on it but we still get a referendum in 2017.
I don't understand where the supposed lies are?
Which yes, means we should get a referendum, as promised (again), the problem is, a lot of people clearly don't believe D.C on the issue - if he is even in power to offer such referendum.
I certainly don't believe him, they won't win a majority and anybody they will be able to form a coalition with will be against such a vote as the other main parties are supportive of our continued membership, IMO D.C knows this and is being very shrewd and duplicitous on the subject.
UKIP of course are an exception but with their expected seat count to be so low it doesn't really enter into the equation.
Axionknight said:
gruffalo said:
A referendum in 2017 has been promised.
If the EU really won't listen to one of its member states and talk about what works for that member well shame on it but we still get a referendum in 2017.
I don't understand where the supposed lies are?
Cameron said there would be one if he couldn't get reform, it appears from this that he won't be able to.If the EU really won't listen to one of its member states and talk about what works for that member well shame on it but we still get a referendum in 2017.
I don't understand where the supposed lies are?
Which yes, means we should get a referendum, as promised (again), the problem is, a lot of people clearly don't believe D.C on the issue - if he is even in power to offer such referendum.
I certainly don't believe him, they won't win a majority and anybody they will be able to form a coalition with will be against such a vote as the other main parties are supportive of our continued membership, IMO D.C knows this and is being very shrewd and duplicitous on the subject.
UKIP of course are an exception but with their expected seat count to be so low it doesn't really enter into the equation.
So this raises the question, would the Conservitives get a majority if every UKIP supporter voted Conservative, and therefore if UKIP supporters really do want a referendum should they vote Conservative as a tactical measure to get what they want or should they just call someone a liar if said person does not deliver on a referendum because they have been put in a position where they are a able to deliver.
Why should they vote for somebody they feel no longer represents their views? Just because maybe, possibly, perhaps, they may get a referendum from D.C and his party who have more form on lying about Europe than anyone else? Maybe also, those people who are now voting UKIP feel they better represent them on other issues too and not just Europe.
Also, who would vote for someone who called them a fruitcake, closet racist? I know I wouldn't, even though he now wants all the fruitcakes to "come home"
Also, who would vote for someone who called them a fruitcake, closet racist? I know I wouldn't, even though he now wants all the fruitcakes to "come home"
Axionknight said:
who would vote for someone who called them a fruitcake, closet racist?
You can level this at both Labour and the Conservatives. Time will tell how many they have alienated, not just in this election campaign, but since the population was bulldozed by the great monolithic, multi-cultural experiment of the New Labour years.The EU are bound to take the stance they currently have, but the EU is run by a bunch of politicians so aren't averse to a 'U' turn when necessary.
DC has promised a referendum if Conservatives form a government. If he gets a majority then there will surely be a referendum. If a coalition, then all bets are off, but we know that.
Don't underestimate the 'threat' to the EU of a possible UK exit - it would be a massive problem for them, financially and reputation wise. It could also start an unwelcome trend for them.
In the event of a Conservative majority government Junkers et al will be faced with a huge problem and I, for one, would not be surprised if pragmatism took effect in the hierarchy of the EU and their current bold statements were somewhat set aside.
Maggie took on the EU when there was not supposed to be room for negotiation and, well, the girl done good!
DC has promised a referendum if Conservatives form a government. If he gets a majority then there will surely be a referendum. If a coalition, then all bets are off, but we know that.
Don't underestimate the 'threat' to the EU of a possible UK exit - it would be a massive problem for them, financially and reputation wise. It could also start an unwelcome trend for them.
In the event of a Conservative majority government Junkers et al will be faced with a huge problem and I, for one, would not be surprised if pragmatism took effect in the hierarchy of the EU and their current bold statements were somewhat set aside.
Maggie took on the EU when there was not supposed to be room for negotiation and, well, the girl done good!
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