Why do you hate the SNP?
Discussion
I'm in complete favour of political parties rising from the ground up. It should keep the established parties more on their toes and not take for granted the Electorate, as has been the situation for decades imo.
Having said that I find the policies of the SNP about as far removed from re-building Britain as is possible, bankruptcy and Societal disharmony beckon if the SNP have the opportunity of Westminster Government.
Having said that I find the policies of the SNP about as far removed from re-building Britain as is possible, bankruptcy and Societal disharmony beckon if the SNP have the opportunity of Westminster Government.
andymadmak said:
I am not trying to be confrontational, but can you list at least some of the "pish" from the Better Together side?
On all the substantive issues it seems to me that BT were just about right?
Edited to add that I do agree with you about the behaviour of Messrs Cameron and Brown. To my mind it was un necessary and in fact may even have cost BT some votes.
The biggest single thing I got from the BT publicity was the subtext of 'don't do it, you're not capable of running your own country'; biggest fOn all the substantive issues it seems to me that BT were just about right?
Edited to add that I do agree with you about the behaviour of Messrs Cameron and Brown. To my mind it was un necessary and in fact may even have cost BT some votes.
king mistake ever in the history of big political mistakes made in Scotland, exceeding even the decision to start the Poll Tax early up here. Talk about red rags to bulls; talk of the rubbish content-free white paper misses the point, yes voters were voting for a dream spun to them by the SNP, self-determination etc. More generally, nonsense talked about Trident, nonsense about EU fisheries, nonsense about the EU, nonsense about the pound/euro/groat(both sides uttered some real whoppers on this subject), nonsense about passports and border controls, fundamental misunderstanding of how the Barnett formula was designed and why Scotland gets more money; I could write more, but it depresses me and reminds me of the referendum. I voted naw if it helps provide context to my raving.
audidoody said:
fk 'em - let 'em have their independence. Then when the oil price collapses even further watch them come begging to Westminster for a handout.
I was of that outlook, until I gave it some thought. If we English had the opportunity to vote on splitting away from Scotland, I would vote, and would vote no. Why, one wonders?k 'em - let 'em have their independence. Then when the oil price collapses even further watch them come begging to Westminster for a handout.Quite simply because we all have sewerage, irrespective of nationality. Scotland's is called the Scottish Nazi Party . The fact is, the majority of Scots are decent people, I would not vote to potentially penalise them because they are saddled with the vile presence of the SNP and its supporters. Heck, as an Englishman , I loathe/hate the SNP , but I have to say, if I were a Scot , I'd hate them even more, simply because they would be making me and mine look like a bunch of deluded, twisted lunatics.
Becoming an independent country when you have been part of a union is always difficult. For a start Scotland would need to transition by negotiating favourable trade agreements (as it would also leave the EU as it presently stands) which would likely take about a decade and they'd be unlikely to be as favourable as those they replaced. Then they'd have to replicate most UK government departments as well as set up administration infrastructure.
Even if the SNP win power and influence the road to independence is long and difficult. In the end I suspect this will keep Scotland in the UK and the UK in the EU. Power may be devolved or centralised at different times depending on public mood or nations situations but I think, if only for pragmatic and prudent reasons, unions between nations will endure.
Even if the SNP win power and influence the road to independence is long and difficult. In the end I suspect this will keep Scotland in the UK and the UK in the EU. Power may be devolved or centralised at different times depending on public mood or nations situations but I think, if only for pragmatic and prudent reasons, unions between nations will endure.
speedy_thrills said:
Becoming an independent country when you have been part of a union is always difficult. For a start Scotland would need to transition by negotiating favourable trade agreements (as it would also leave the EU as it presently stands) which would likely take about a decade and they'd be unlikely to be as favourable as those they replaced. Then they'd have to replicate most UK government departments as well as set up administration infrastructure.
Even if the SNP win power and influence the road to independence is long and difficult. In the end I suspect this will keep Scotland in the UK and the UK in the EU. Power may be devolved or centralised at different times depending on public mood or nations situations but I think, if only for pragmatic and prudent reasons, unions between nations will endure.
From an English perspective, you're highlighting another of the excellent benefits of Scottish independence.Even if the SNP win power and influence the road to independence is long and difficult. In the end I suspect this will keep Scotland in the UK and the UK in the EU. Power may be devolved or centralised at different times depending on public mood or nations situations but I think, if only for pragmatic and prudent reasons, unions between nations will endure.
Because Blair and Brown stuffed loads of public sector jobs into Scotland in a bid to buy votes, independence would give England a far more sustainably sized public sector without needing to go to the expense of redundancies. All we'd need to do would be to retrain some of the English public sector employees in pointless non jobs to do some of the necessary jobs currently based in Scotland, and we'd be sorted!
Of course, it would just be another nail I the coffin of an independent Scotland but f
k 'em... If they stupid enough to want to leave the English teat, then they'll just have to take the consequences.I dislike the SNP because they are refusing to accept the will of the Scottish people who voted to stay as part of the UK. That upset the SNP blue face painted "freedom" criers so instead, they now want to screw so much out of the English that we will beg them to leave.
So much for democracy when they don't appear to accept the wishes of people or want the English treated the same.
So much for democracy when they don't appear to accept the wishes of people or want the English treated the same.
Cheese Mechanic said:
audidoody said:
fk 'em - let 'em have their independence. Then when the oil price collapses even further watch them come begging to Westminster for a handout.
I was of that outlook, until I gave it some thought. If we English had the opportunity to vote on splitting away from Scotland, I would vote, and would vote no. Why, one wonders?k 'em - let 'em have their independence. Then when the oil price collapses even further watch them come begging to Westminster for a handout.Quite simply because we all have sewerage, irrespective of nationality. Scotland's is called the Scottish Nazi Party . The fact is, the majority of Scots are decent people, I would not vote to potentially penalise them because they are saddled with the vile presence of the SNP and its supporters. Heck, as an Englishman , I loathe/hate the SNP , but I have to say, if I were a Scot , I'd hate them even more, simply because they would be making me and mine look like a bunch of deluded, twisted lunatics.
I think the way the SNP are behaving is entirely due to their political environment. While they are contemptible as people for pandering to it what they do is entirely logical. Ultimately the people to blame for this are the people who created this environment, the Labour Party.
The Scottish Parliament was ultimately created by the Labour party as a reaction to being out of government for 18 years. They want to create the regional assemblies as a means by which Labour could continue to run a government even if the Tories won the election.
However when they created the assemblies they set them up with the assumption that they'd always be run by Labour. As they are currently structured they are a gift to nationalist parties and provide a perfect structure to claim special privileges as they aren't a common layer of government applicable to all parts of the UK.
If they'd done it right they'd have set up a layer of government common to all of the UK with the same rights and powers for all the regional assemblies and the same funding arrangements. That might have allowed localism and killed nationalism, the current arrangement does neither.
The Scottish Parliament was ultimately created by the Labour party as a reaction to being out of government for 18 years. They want to create the regional assemblies as a means by which Labour could continue to run a government even if the Tories won the election.
However when they created the assemblies they set them up with the assumption that they'd always be run by Labour. As they are currently structured they are a gift to nationalist parties and provide a perfect structure to claim special privileges as they aren't a common layer of government applicable to all parts of the UK.
If they'd done it right they'd have set up a layer of government common to all of the UK with the same rights and powers for all the regional assemblies and the same funding arrangements. That might have allowed localism and killed nationalism, the current arrangement does neither.
Kermit power said:
From an English perspective, you're highlighting another of the excellent benefits of Scottish independence.
Because Blair and Brown stuffed loads of public sector jobs into Scotland in a bid to buy votes, independence would give England a far more sustainably sized public sector without needing to go to the expense of redundancies. All we'd need to do would be to retrain some of the English public sector employees in pointless non jobs to do some of the necessary jobs currently based in Scotland, and we'd be sorted!
Of course, it would just be another nail I the coffin of an independent Scotland but fk 'em... If they stupid enough to want to leave the English teat, then they'll just have to take the consequences.
English teat? fBecause Blair and Brown stuffed loads of public sector jobs into Scotland in a bid to buy votes, independence would give England a far more sustainably sized public sector without needing to go to the expense of redundancies. All we'd need to do would be to retrain some of the English public sector employees in pointless non jobs to do some of the necessary jobs currently based in Scotland, and we'd be sorted!
Of course, it would just be another nail I the coffin of an independent Scotland but f
k 'em... If they stupid enough to want to leave the English teat, then they'll just have to take the consequences.k off!SNP policy/manifesto.
Tax the "rich", put up business rates, give out more money in benefits/subsidies etc. That way the "poorer" majority will love you even more and therefor vote for you. Badda bing. Simples.
BUT they will only be able to really change things IF they form part of a government, which will only happen IF Labour win. That is a given due to Millibands refusal to rule out any deal with the SNP, which he wont as he will do anything to become PM....anything.
Then the Scottish policy will be implemented into the labour/governments policy.....so back to borrow/spend again to keep the "poorer" majority happy and maybe in 5 years time, Labour might gain an overall majority. That's if our economy isn't right down the stpan by then....which it shouldn't due to the honeymoon period they will have from the way the economy is right now. BUT it might slow down/stop and start to decline.
Tax the "rich", put up business rates, give out more money in benefits/subsidies etc. That way the "poorer" majority will love you even more and therefor vote for you. Badda bing. Simples.
BUT they will only be able to really change things IF they form part of a government, which will only happen IF Labour win. That is a given due to Millibands refusal to rule out any deal with the SNP, which he wont as he will do anything to become PM....anything.
Then the Scottish policy will be implemented into the labour/governments policy.....so back to borrow/spend again to keep the "poorer" majority happy and maybe in 5 years time, Labour might gain an overall majority. That's if our economy isn't right down the s
tpan by then....which it shouldn't due to the honeymoon period they will have from the way the economy is right now. BUT it might slow down/stop and start to decline. Rickeh said:
The SNP provide a credible alternative to the traditional parties with strong leadership. Just look at the opinion polls when there's a debate involving Salmond or Sturgeon of who came out on top.
Two things I don't like about the SNP are, firstly, their high spend approach to the economy and secondly the way they out rightly state they want to lock the Tories out of government. The former is not personally how I'd like to deal with the economy and the latter seems a little too personal although I appreciate its strategic to try to form part of a coalition. I suppose they don't have many Conservative voters in Scotland to alienate with that approach.
For many who may deep down should be voting Labour/LD/Conservative it's the choice between the following:
1. Choosing a party that will always try to do the best for Scotland
2. Choosing a party that has the type of policies you agree with
Given that attention is usually focussed on London/SE and the detached from Westminster feeling many have that are from out with this area it's not a surprise people choose 1. from the choice above.
Either way I think it's quite sad and ignorant to label the SNP and their supporters as racist/anti English. Sure there are a few bampots that have watched Braveheart too many times, as there are bad eggs in any large group, but on the whole they are quite a positive party. Objectively tear into their policies if you wish but claiming the racist card and bundling them in with the likes of the BNP is just embarrassing yourself.
Rick, don't let common sense get in the way of most of the folks on here - the majority on here are only on for a reassuring pat on the head or tummy rub from other PHers of a similar right-wing bent.Two things I don't like about the SNP are, firstly, their high spend approach to the economy and secondly the way they out rightly state they want to lock the Tories out of government. The former is not personally how I'd like to deal with the economy and the latter seems a little too personal although I appreciate its strategic to try to form part of a coalition. I suppose they don't have many Conservative voters in Scotland to alienate with that approach.
For many who may deep down should be voting Labour/LD/Conservative it's the choice between the following:
1. Choosing a party that will always try to do the best for Scotland
2. Choosing a party that has the type of policies you agree with
Given that attention is usually focussed on London/SE and the detached from Westminster feeling many have that are from out with this area it's not a surprise people choose 1. from the choice above.
Either way I think it's quite sad and ignorant to label the SNP and their supporters as racist/anti English. Sure there are a few bampots that have watched Braveheart too many times, as there are bad eggs in any large group, but on the whole they are quite a positive party. Objectively tear into their policies if you wish but claiming the racist card and bundling them in with the likes of the BNP is just embarrassing yourself.
Then there's folk like Wibbles - who's so completely hatstand that even other right wingers on here have started referring to him as a boorish moron.
NoNeed said:
arp1 said:
Are you for real? Look at all the racist nonsense the scots have had to put up with over the years! And YOU are complaining? Jeez!
Anti-English violent attacks have been rising in Scotland for at least ten years, I don't see attacks against Scots for being Scots in England, yet the opposite is rife in Scotland. all the time when I'm in London.arp1 said:
Kermit power said:
From an English perspective, you're highlighting another of the excellent benefits of Scottish independence.
Because Blair and Brown stuffed loads of public sector jobs into Scotland in a bid to buy votes, independence would give England a far more sustainably sized public sector without needing to go to the expense of redundancies. All we'd need to do would be to retrain some of the English public sector employees in pointless non jobs to do some of the necessary jobs currently based in Scotland, and we'd be sorted!
Of course, it would just be another nail I the coffin of an independent Scotland but fk 'em... If they stupid enough to want to leave the English teat, then they'll just have to take the consequences.
English teat? fBecause Blair and Brown stuffed loads of public sector jobs into Scotland in a bid to buy votes, independence would give England a far more sustainably sized public sector without needing to go to the expense of redundancies. All we'd need to do would be to retrain some of the English public sector employees in pointless non jobs to do some of the necessary jobs currently based in Scotland, and we'd be sorted!
Of course, it would just be another nail I the coffin of an independent Scotland but f
k 'em... If they stupid enough to want to leave the English teat, then they'll just have to take the consequences.k off!Giving the Scots a referendum rather than the English must be the only recorded case in history where the parasite got to decide whether to get rid of the host rather than the other way round!!
Kermit power said:
If I could, dear boy, I would in a hearbeat. Unfortunately,though, we didn't get given a referendum to take that decision.
Giving the Scots a referendum rather than the English must be the only recorded case in history where the parasite got to decide whether to get rid of the host rather than the other way round!!
This every single day of the week. Giving the Scots a referendum rather than the English must be the only recorded case in history where the parasite got to decide whether to get rid of the host rather than the other way round!!
You lot think you hate the English? I suspect you have no idea of the feelings we have towards you and how much worse the SNP are making that.
Give us a vote on it and see how fast you become independent!
Talksteer said:
They want to create the regional assemblies as a means by which Labour could continue to run a government even if the Tories won the election.
This is very true. It p*sses me off no end that the BBC insist on pointedly referring to the 'Welsh Labour Government'. Although it's instructive when you see what an utter ***king mess of running the Welsh education system and NHS the 'Welsh Labour Government' have made of things. Perhaps that's the silver lining. xjsdriver said:
Facts and figures please.....I'm Anglo-Irish - and I'm yet to experience any of this anti-English bile you so forthrightly go on about (and I've only been living here 40 odd years) Although I do hear terms like Jock all the time when I'm in London.
My cousin has left Scotland after 25 yrs living there. She said that she was constantly asked why are you living here, why don't you go back to England.....so fed up with the anti English attitude, she finally did. her son has also recently moved south of the border. If you don't know about it, you must be deaf. I have never heard the phrase given above but in the military Jocks were referred to as frisps. all the time when I'm in London.xjsdriver said:
Facts and figures please.....I'm Anglo-Irish - and I'm yet to experience any of this anti-English bile you so forthrightly go on about (and I've only been living here 40 odd years) Although I do hear terms like Jock all the time when I'm in London.
facts and figures have been posted the the referendum threads several times and so has a quote from salmond saying it's a concern. all the time when I'm in London.feel free to go and re read or you can just google.
I’m English and I don’t hate the SNP.
In fact, I can completely understand the upsurge in Scottish nationalism. A large proportion of Scots have decided that they have had enough of their country being run from London by English Tories that almost no-one north of the border voted for, and they are determined to change that situation. Devolution has brought some limited self-determination, but they want to fully govern themselves. They want an end to austerity and an egalitarian, social democratic society which works more like Denmark or Sweden, and less like London.
The nats have effective, credible leadership in Salmond and Sturgeon, and despite the result of last year’s referendum, they will probably achieve independence one day. As an English person, I think the break-up of the UK would be a great shame, but I can see why that is what so many Scots want.
In fact, I can completely understand the upsurge in Scottish nationalism. A large proportion of Scots have decided that they have had enough of their country being run from London by English Tories that almost no-one north of the border voted for, and they are determined to change that situation. Devolution has brought some limited self-determination, but they want to fully govern themselves. They want an end to austerity and an egalitarian, social democratic society which works more like Denmark or Sweden, and less like London.
The nats have effective, credible leadership in Salmond and Sturgeon, and despite the result of last year’s referendum, they will probably achieve independence one day. As an English person, I think the break-up of the UK would be a great shame, but I can see why that is what so many Scots want.
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