Thatcher style Tory Lloyds sell off in 12montbs
Discussion
Blaster72 said:
As for the poster above who said the public didn't bail them out, if the government borrows money to bail out the banks where exactly do you think the money comes from to pay back those loans???
Exactly.The public has already bought, and paid for, its stake in Lloyds. It didn't pay upfront, but instead got a loan (by issuing unsecured debt in the bond markets) in order to get the money to buy it. It's now paying back the loan through its taxes. (A fairly big chunk of tax money goes towards paying interest on government debt.)
I just don't understand how the public can then be asked to "buy" the stake again.
I'm not sure what the confusion is here?
The shares were previously in private hands.
Following the bank bailouts, the government ended up owning a significant shareholding in Lloyds but this was only ever expected to be temporary.
The plan is now to return the shares to private hands.
What has this got to do with Thatcher?
The shares were previously in private hands.
Following the bank bailouts, the government ended up owning a significant shareholding in Lloyds but this was only ever expected to be temporary.
The plan is now to return the shares to private hands.
What has this got to do with Thatcher?
turbobloke said:
As long as they remember to tell Sid.
I'm now fully up to speed with the situation!Edited by sidicks on Sunday 19th April 12:03
normally we would sell these off to institutional investors over a sell off period to get maximum value.
instead we are going to give poor people (you'll only get shares I bet if you apply for a few hundred quid) a bit of pocket money buy giving them a few hundred quid in their pocket. And lose a few billion in the process via the discount and bonus
thatcher did the same, in fact we did the same with Royal Mail
instead we are going to give poor people (you'll only get shares I bet if you apply for a few hundred quid) a bit of pocket money buy giving them a few hundred quid in their pocket. And lose a few billion in the process via the discount and bonus
thatcher did the same, in fact we did the same with Royal Mail
speedy_thrills said:
Trailhead said:
Where and when can I buy them?
DYOR first.Strange time to sell given the UKs financial position, cost of borrowing etc. Also why not just tranche them back onto the market progressively and get the best price?
Edited by speedy_thrills on Sunday 19th April 10:00
AmitG said:
Blaster72 said:
As for the poster above who said the public didn't bail them out, if the government borrows money to bail out the banks where exactly do you think the money comes from to pay back those loans???
Exactly.The public has already bought, and paid for, its stake in Lloyds. It didn't pay upfront, but instead got a loan (by issuing unsecured debt in the bond markets) in order to get the money to buy it. It's now paying back the loan through its taxes. (A fairly big chunk of tax money goes towards paying interest on government debt.)
I just don't understand how the public can then be asked to "buy" the stake again.
At present, it is indeed not so far fetched to say that we the public ALL own a tiny bit of lloyds. The key being the use of the word ALL. Using our cash, whether borrowed or not.
When the shares are sold, a small number of people will buy and therefore own those lloyds shares. In return we will all have the shares that we currently all own converted back to the cash that was used to buy the shares - we will actually ALL be better off assuming the cash that we sell the shares for exceeds the amount that was used to buy lloyds
As a separate issue, there will as a result be investors, made up of some of the public but not all, who have bought lloyds shares with their own cash. Or are you suggesting that we shouldn't sell any of the stake to British taxpayers and only sell to institutions and foreign private investors ?
This idea that we are being somehow asked to double pay for doesn't take into account the whole picture
AmitG said:
I think that robemcdonald makes a good point.
Lloyds was already bought using taxpayer money. The nation already owns it. To then "sell" it back to British nationals suggests that the nation is being asked to pay for something that it already owns.
All the Tories are really doing is asking people to write cheques to pay off the national debt, in return for direct exposure to the upside (or downside) of Lloyds stock.
I've simplified a bit, but that's how it looks to me.
Absurd illogical nonsense. If indeed 'the nation' does own Lloyds (its only 22%), then when it is sold 'the nation' will be paid for it, by the new owners. Who gives a fvck who the new owners are, 'British Nationals' or otherwise, if they want to own it good luck to them. Yes a British taxpayer willfully choosing to buy Lloyds from UKFI in a convoluted way has paid for some of it twice, but using the same logic they will also be paid for selling it once also. So no it's not a good point its a sh1t point.Lloyds was already bought using taxpayer money. The nation already owns it. To then "sell" it back to British nationals suggests that the nation is being asked to pay for something that it already owns.
All the Tories are really doing is asking people to write cheques to pay off the national debt, in return for direct exposure to the upside (or downside) of Lloyds stock.
I've simplified a bit, but that's how it looks to me.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 20th April 21:52
fblm said:
AmitG said:
I think that robemcdonald makes a good point.
Lloyds was already bought using taxpayer money. The nation already owns it. To then "sell" it back to British nationals suggests that the nation is being asked to pay for something that it already owns.
All the Tories are really doing is asking people to write cheques to pay off the national debt, in return for direct exposure to the upside (or downside) of Lloyds stock.
I've simplified a bit, but that's how it looks to me.
Absurd illogical nonsense. If indeed 'the nation' does own Lloyds (its only 22%), then when it is sold 'the nation' will be paid for it, by the new owners. Who gives a fvck who the new owners are, 'British Nationals' or otherwise, if they want to own it good luck to them. Yes a British taxpayer willfully choosing to buy Lloyds from UKFI in a convoluted way has paid for some of it twice, but using the same logic they will also be paid for selling it once also. So no it's not a good point its a sh1t point.Lloyds was already bought using taxpayer money. The nation already owns it. To then "sell" it back to British nationals suggests that the nation is being asked to pay for something that it already owns.
All the Tories are really doing is asking people to write cheques to pay off the national debt, in return for direct exposure to the upside (or downside) of Lloyds stock.
I've simplified a bit, but that's how it looks to me.
Edited by fblm on Monday 20th April 21:52
greygoose said:
Given the collective we as tax payers own 22% I don't see why we should sell it off at 95% of its value...
Couldn't agree more. I suppose the folksey justification is that 'we' rescued it so 'we' should get a little thank you but that is clearly fvcking hogwash and this is yet another grubby little exercise in buying our votes with our money. 
otolith said:
The "public" jointly own a share of a bank. The "public" will sell their share of a bank to individuals for money. The "public" will then own money to pay down a bit of its enormous debt and the individuals will own the shares. What's hard to grasp?
or spunk it on a really fast train to make politicians feel like they're not totally uselessotolith said:
The "public" will then own money to pay down a bit of its enormous debt and the individuals will own the shares. What's hard to grasp?
Does that make sense given the UK can borrow at such low rates over extended durations? I could be sympathetic if this was an unproductive asset like an unused building or vehicle.I'm lead to believe the UK paid about 61p/share, current valuation is ~78p and there is a 7.5p dividend.
speedy_thrills said:
otolith said:
The "public" will then own money to pay down a bit of its enormous debt and the individuals will own the shares. What's hard to grasp?
Does that make sense given the UK can borrow at such low rates over extended durations? I could be sympathetic if this was an unproductive asset like an unused building or vehicle.I'm lead to believe the UK paid about 61p/share, current valuation is ~78p and there is a 7.5p dividend.
Or is it me that is being too simplistic?
How do we think we instil this confidence? By being sensible or voting SNP etc?
speedy_thrills said:
otolith said:
The "public" will then own money to pay down a bit of its enormous debt and the individuals will own the shares. What's hard to grasp?
Does that make sense given the UK can borrow at such low rates over extended durations? I could be sympathetic if this was an unproductive asset like an unused building or vehicle.I'm lead to believe the UK paid about 61p/share, current valuation is ~78p and there is a 7.5p dividend.
speedy_thrills said:
I'm lead to believe the UK paid about 61p/share, current valuation is ~78p and there is a 7.5p dividend.
There were 3 investments/bailouts cost averaging 73.58pThere was a dividend recently but there was no way in hell if was 10%, maybe 1%, don't know what it was though.
In terms of taxpayer income from Lloyds, far bigger than any dividend, there was also a £2.5bn fee they paid to exit the APS early.
fblm said:
There were 3 investments/bailouts cost averaging 73.58p
There was a dividend recently but there was no way in hell if was 10%, maybe 1%, don't know what it was though.
In terms of taxpayer income from Lloyds, far bigger than any dividend, there was also a £2.5bn fee they paid to exit the APS early.
You are correct - 0.75 per share.There was a dividend recently but there was no way in hell if was 10%, maybe 1%, don't know what it was though.
In terms of taxpayer income from Lloyds, far bigger than any dividend, there was also a £2.5bn fee they paid to exit the APS early.
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