UK 'flash crash trader'

[NicD]

Looks like a good defence to me, but in any case, just to keep up to date:

A British financial trader accused of helping trigger a multibillion-dollar US stock market crash from his London home is due to appear in court on Wednesday after failing to raise the cash needed to make bail.
Sarao is facing 22 charges including wire fraud, commodities fraud and market manipulation, which carry sentences totalling a maximum of 380 years.

[Mr Whippy]

Time to cash out then. I called it a year and one month too early then

[Mr Whippy]

Time to cash out then. I called it a year and one month too early then

[OtherBusiness]

sell sell sell!

[Mr Whippy]

Lets see a non-manipulated 'flash' Twitter surge when the US markets open. Back up past previous highs to $100 on bad news

Why anyone plays this game is beyond me.

https://youtu.be/8c1BQkKUsx0?t=1m25s


You're either a paid up franchisee in on the con, or a chump.


Free Markets FTW!!111!!!

Edited by Mr Whippy on Wednesday 29th April 14:09

[Rude-boy]

johnfm said:

It is yet more US regulator going after UK targets. Amazing that in 5 years since the blip this guy is the ONLY traders they have found spoofing?

I call absolute and total bks. Now way this guy crashed a $20TN market - but the regulators do not have the balls to sniff around GS et al.

The UK government should be stepping in here.

Okay so I know begger all about this stuff, as my MarketMaster account will tell you , but...

I am reading the post above and adding this to what I think to be the case as I can see it and have picked up. I have to agree, I just can't see how someone worth 'only' £40m maxed out can possibly have caused this on their own. I wonder, had he been 'rumbled' before and his smaller scale efforts (which flew under many a radar) were picked up by one of the big players who then piggybacked on him, but at a 1:100 ratio? Don't tell me that there are not some first class hackers employed by the big boys who spend as much time trying to break other's systems as the team on the other side of the office spend defending theirs?

It all stinks to hell, and reading johnfm's post above has just added the final piece to the jigsaw - they planned the timing of this to coincide with the election so that it would first die in a few days and secondly Westminster would be too busy arguing over who is going to run the big show after next Thursday to kick up too much of a stink over it all and highlight what appears to be the gaping hole in their submissions - how a scale on a minnow can cheat a system designed and run by killer whales.

[anonymous-user]

The CFTC and SEC have been under huge pressure to explain the flash crash, at first they tried to pin it on a small asset management firm called Waddel and Reed for putting in a big sell order (!) but everyone with the slightest clue, including the CME, laughed at this utterly hopeless explanation. So they went back to the drawing board and realised they didn't have the faintest clue how it happened. The SEC doesn't even have an audit trail, they've been talking about it for 3 years now. The fact is 'the markets' have become so fragmented between exchanges and dark pools with thousands of automated processes running simultaneously and many millions of lines of code that no one understands how the market will react to events any more. That scares everyone who gets it, including investors and thats bad for capitalism... I expect what this guy did is as laid out in the charges but his part in the crash can be nothing more than conjecture, after all he supposedly used this strategy for 5 years without crashing anything before or after. It does seem mighty convenient to be able to blame the crash on a lone wolf foreigner and not a fundamental flaw in the market.

[CloaK]

If the US federal government bring case against you, you're fked.

Don't ask me how I know this.

He'll probably be in Wandsworth for a few years fruitlessly fighting the extradition warrant.

Then he'll be on a plane to Illinois, be offered a deal of maybe 5-7 years or face a federal trial and be looking at a very long stretch or they could just go all Allen Stanford on him and life him off!

[Chim]

Seems he can not raise bail and has been remanded in custody. Reason he can not raise the bail is that the yanks have frozen all his assets. This is simply disgusting, why are the British courts and government once again letting the Yanks abuse our citizens at their will. Seems his bail conditions also include him not being allowed to use the internet, this little clause i find very disturbing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32608295

[Digga]

Chim said:

Seems he can not raise bail and has been remanded in custody. Reason he can not raise the bail is that the yanks have frozen all his assets. This is simply disgusting, why are the British courts and government once again letting the Yanks abuse our citizens at their will. Seems his bail conditions also include him not being allowed to use the internet, this little clause i find very disturbing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32608295

Agreed. Looking at what is happening in Baltimore right now in parallel to this, you really cannot believe anyone thought the arrangements with the USA were right or fair for UK citizens.

[BlackLabel]

How is he expected to pay for a decent legal team if the Americans have frozen his bank accounts.

[Ali G]

But - presumably Goldman Sachs et al can afford/have bought heavyweight US legal defense already.

Allegedly.



I could be persuaded that there may be a bit of 'look there - squirrel' going on here.

However, I am very happy that I have little understanding of the heavy duty, very fast, nonsensical, idiotic trading engendered in this topic, which may be the ultimate evolution of 'City' type trading.

Otherwise, I might become a bit annoyed.

[fido]

Ali G said:

However, I am very happy that I have little understanding of the heavy duty, very fast, nonsensical, idiotic trading engendered in this topic, which may be the ultimate evolution of 'City' type trading.

Just to add, HFT isn't illegal per se - but the technique of 'layering' which Hounslow Boy is alleged to have used to make his profits is illegal. Whether or not this could have brought down the system - well that's another question.

[Ali G]

fido said:

Ali G said:

However, I am very happy that I have little understanding of the heavy duty, very fast, nonsensical, idiotic trading engendered in this topic, which may be the ultimate evolution of 'City' type trading.

Just to add, HFT isn't illegal per se - but the technique of 'layering' which Hounslow Boy is alleged to have used to make his profits is illegal. Whether or not this could have brought down the system - well that's another question.

If the system is/was broke, then those 'in charge' may be adopting diversionary tactics.

However, none of this makes any sense at all, without bringing into aspects which may be pure speculation.

If the 'system' is so borked as to permit this (allegedly illegal activity), then one can only speculate as to how it may have been abused already by those with more protection, or those outside of any jurisdiction whatsoever.

The sanity of permitting HFT should, imho, be questioned, however, since this places reliance on algorithms which can, will, and have, failed.

[hidetheelephants]

Ali G said:

The sanity of permitting HFT should, imho, be questioned, however, since this places reliance on algorithms which can, will, and have, failed.

I tried suggesting this earlier but it was dismissed as luddism.

[anonymous-user]

hidetheelephants said:

Ali G said:

The sanity of permitting HFT should, imho, be questioned, however, since this places reliance on algorithms which can, will, and have, failed.

I tried suggesting this earlier but it was dismissed as luddism.

Assuming you're talking about our conversation, no you didn't and no you weren't. You declared HFT something like the vapid persuit of something or other to suck capital out of productive endevour, or something to that effect. You asked about benefits, I gave you some which you dismissed. The current system is a chaotic mess, you seem to want to pick a fight with someone although you clearly know little about it and those who do arn't defending it. IME those complaining about todays fractured electronic markets never experienced the joy of crappy fills on the old open outcry/specialist markets.

Today, referring to 'permitting HFT' is absurd, you're 2 decades late; HFT's arn't ruining the market they ARE the markets. If you're actually interested Dark Pools by Scott Patterson is very good, its mostly about stock markets but its also applicable to the futures markets.

[Ali G]

hidetheelephants said:

Ali G said:

The sanity of permitting HFT should, imho, be questioned, however, since this places reliance on algorithms which can, will, and have, failed.

I tried suggesting this earlier but it was dismissed as luddism.

Aye, more controls may be required, if this bd child of 'trading' continues.

Not that any of us has influence sufficient to control those who do so....

Too many trough snufflers with influence and wealth with benefit assured, to do the right thing

[Mr Whippy]

Ali G said:

Aye, more controls may be required, if this bd child of 'trading' continues.

Not that any of us has influence sufficient to control those who do so....

Too many trough snufflers with influence and wealth with benefit assured, to do the right thing

It's just a casino now, and one with reported manipulation of the cards.

I'm amazed that sentiment in the market is so high given how heavily manipulated/skimmed it is by these systems now.

Humans eh. Greed driven and they fall foul of that nature by manipulators.

[outnumbered]

This whole system of extraditing individuals to the U.S., without really allowing much defence, seems very unfair to me. And it certainly seems unlikely that this bloke in Hounslow is responsible for the entire crash as seems to be alleged.

Very "convenient" for the U.S. Authorities to have pinned it in a foreigner, and one in a country that won't do much to protect its own citizens from heavy-handed U.S. Justice...

[NicD]

Right, he finally coughs to the gains, I would think HMRC will be inquiring as he seemed to be trading as an occupation -

'Hound of Hounslow' accused of helping cause £500billion financial flash crash is freed on bail after admitting he has £30million in assets'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3198391/Ho...