Opposite views to PH majority

[Steve H]

davepoth said:

speedy_thrills said:

BGARK said:

Everything I read online appears to be the opposite to their views, do they not use the internet?

I think at this point holes have been poked in every parties budget projections.

Conservative views don't prevail in the long term because they are at odds with the progressive nature of western society.

Except for the USA. And all of the right wing politicians being elected in Europe at the moment. And Japan. And Australia. There is a rising tide around the world of people in wealthier nations who for one reason or another have become disenchanted with socialism. What's that all about?

It's about self-protectionism. Any rich country that is surrounded by poorer countries is likely to have the same views as a rich person surrounded by poor people - they don't want to give it away.

If voters are more conscious of their countries' wealth relative to the neighbouring countries than their own lack of personal wealth relative to their actual neighbours they will move to the right.

davepoth said:

speedy_thrills said:

As much as we love capitalism and buying things...that freedom of choice that Conservatives have championed recently, if you ask most British people what they consider to be progress they will usually use measures like living longer and healthier lives, being better educated and feeling happier. As a society most people have moved past a stage where individual material wealth is going to make a big difference to those measures,there is food on the table in abundance for most people (people forget but for most of human history that in itself would be almost unthinkable).

On the contrary. There is a 25 year gap in life expectancy between the richest and poorest parts of London.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/a-25-y...

Pretty much the only difference there (given that a lot of the welfare systems are comparable) is money.

Or education/intelligence. There's plenty of health damaging behaviour displayed by some members of the lower levels of society that don't relate directly to money.

[BGARK]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Go for it, we will be nice! However any opinion must be backed up by facts, don't you agree?

[BGARK]

MarshPhantom said:

This is part of the problem, in PH world the Tories never lie, don't talk bks, don't announce plans they can't afford.

If you do think that you haven't been following the election coverage

Agreed, that is why I am voting UKIP.

[AJS-]

MarshPhantom said:

AJS- said:

I've only had a quick scan through it, so I may have missed out pages of insightful comments and considered discussion, but I don't believe so. Instead it's page after page of people competing to show off how much they hate the Tories, Thatcher, UKIP and so forth.

Insert Labour, Blair, SNP and so forth and you could be talking about PH.

Not quite true though. There is some drivel gets posted on PH, and there are a few trolls about, I would say there's quite a lot of considered discussion on here. Some well thought out arguments and some knowledgeable people. There are a few left wing people who can occasionally make good points on here too.

Urban75 isn't a direct comparison by any stretch, but it is the closest left wing alternative I've found and it's dismal.

It's my experience that conservative or libertarian minded people tend to spend a lot more time discussing the rightful limits of the state, liberties and responsibilties of the individual and the relationship between the individual and the state. These are much more fertile and to my mind interesting topics than simply wishing for more money, and lambasting the rich, the bankers and Thatcher.

[BGARK]

mph1977 said:

urban75.net

Wow!

[AJS-]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I am banned from U75 and not really in that sort of frame of mind anyway, but I would be interested to see the response to a mirror thread on that forum stating that you wish to privatise the NHS, introduce a flat tax rate and repeal all climate change legislation. My prediction is that the response would consist mainly of abuse that would make your thread look very civilised and most likely a ban.

[Derek Smith]

A discussion in a rugby club bar, not a hive of socialist beliefs and activism it might surprise everyone to discover generated comments abut the failures of left wing politics and how much it costs 'us' in the past. One chap, a small business owner who'd sold up a little before the crash after the death of his wife, suggested that, over the past seven years, the failure of capitalism had cost him personally a lot more than labour ever did, and he felt he'd got off lightly due to selling up.

From previous conversations with the bloke I knew that his firm had "less than two dozen" employees, many of whom were part-time and he'd sold off to a group which, he believed, wanted to expand. Come the crash, they sacked a lot and later the company closed.

He is a life-long tory, but still reckons that capitalism is a flawed policy.

We get on well. We are both of the opinion that the population if fed right wing bias by way of the press and on TV. Further, he strongly believes that the education system is very right wing in general. He hates the right wing of the tory party. I don't, I think it risible.

So a person who made money from capitalism: manufacturing items - in his case servicing as well - to sell at a profit, reckons that capitalism has cost him.

[BGARK]

Derek Smith said:

So a person who made money from capitalism: manufacturing items - in his case servicing as well - to sell at a profit, reckons that capitalism has cost him.

I also manufacture for a living. During the recession in 2009 I lost almost everything and 30 people were made redundant because our bank pulled my overdraft without warning. Did I blame the bank or capitalism, no I blamed myself for not having a stronger cash-flow plan and more in reserves to ride out the storm.

Bad business people who fail are like people with left wing views, its always someone else's fault.

[blindswelledrat]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I thought it was a good thread and you did a good job.
It was inevitable that after 15 pages or so, rather than actually read your points, the UKIPers of this world preferred to start ignoring them when they had no come-back and try and belittle them with rhetoric and tabloid headlines.
If that thread was snipped in half it would be a decent advert for PH.

[BGARK]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Can I ask you a question.

Do you leave the front door permanently open to your house?

[Cheese Mechanic]

Derek Smith said:

So a person who made money from capitalism: manufacturing items - in his case servicing as well - to sell at a profit, reckons that capitalism has cost him.

Thats called bitterness I think.The man is making excuses for his own shortcomings. Having been a business owner, I know for a fact, that you have to think the unthinkable, rule in everything, and nothing out. Government is the enemy (irrespective of party)get it right, then the rewards are there, get it wrong, in can fk up your own life and others as well.

Huge responsibility.

[Esseesse]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You get nasty/rude people in all areas of life. You're right it was a good thread to begin with, you'll see I contributed in what I think was a constructive way. On the UKIP thread more than half the time I just click 'back' and look at something else because the recent posts have been from a 'hater' frothing about the BNP/racism/tattoos, or something equally unrelated.

[Esseesse]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

^^^ This kind of comment is what brings threads down.

[blindswelledrat]

Esseesse said:

^^^ This kind of comment is what brings threads down.

Except it was true.

[Asterix]

Esseesse said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You get nasty/rude people in all areas of life.

Indeed - but if you went to a pub and there was someone you didn't like, they'd simply not be in your circle of mates, you'd not speak to them much and it wouldn't really be much of an issue.


You can't escape them on a thread.

I'm not talking about dissing someone for just having a different point of view - I love nothing more than having a good chat with people and finding out their reasoning for such views - it's when they have no reasoning and all you get is hackneyed bilge regurgitated, or often hypocritical actions.

I try my best to ignore where I can on here.

[Derek Smith]

BGARK said:

Derek Smith said:

So a person who made money from capitalism: manufacturing items - in his case servicing as well - to sell at a profit, reckons that capitalism has cost him.

I also manufacture for a living. During the recession in 2009 I lost almost everything and 30 people were made redundant because our bank pulled my overdraft without warning. Did I blame the bank or capitalism, no I blamed myself for not having a stronger cash-flow plan and more in reserves to ride out the storm.

Bad business people who fail are like people with left wing views, its always someone else's fault.

Cheese Mechanic said:

Thats called bitterness I think.The man is making excuses for his own shortcomings. Having been a business owner, I know for a fact, that you have to think the unthinkable, rule in everything, and nothing out. Government is the enemy (irrespective of party)get it right, then the rewards are there, get it wrong, in can fk up your own life and others as well.

Huge responsibility.

Not sure how you can justify the accusations that this bloke failed. Indeed, just the reverse, if you judge success as monetary reward. He sold up at the height of the boom. So rather obviously - or not I suppose - a bad business person. And no bitterness. Of course there's no bitterness. Both suggestions verge of the ludicrous. The chap is very rich. I'd suggest he's not particularly happy after the death of a wife of some 35 years, but I don't think that can be justification of him being bad at business.

He's had three businesses. One wasn't successful in the sense that it made a lot of money, but his son is running it now and enjoying it I believe. So very successful I'd say.

It is no good trying to twist something to suit your point of view. The bloke stated, in essence, that recessions are a failure of capitalism. The conversation revolved around the one of the inter-war years and the current one. If a company goes under, then so what? It was a gamble. That's not a failure of capitalism. Just the reverse in fact. If a firm is badly managed in a free market then it should go under. Good riddance.

But in the banking collapse, for that is what it was, those who were running successful businesses were hit for no fault of their own. That is a failure of capitalism.

Banks had to be nationalised, i.e. my taxes paid to bail out poor business models: that is a failure of capitalism.

The need for continual expansion, now that is a failure of capitalism.

I'm not suggesting that socialism is more likely to succeed, just that capitalism.

[Cheese Mechanic]

I find it somewhat strange that Socialist lefties seem to think that they should be treated with respect. It just shows how arrogant they are . They berate and intimidate people, and seem to think that they are superior , especially when it comes to interfering in the lives of others.

They destroy our economy time after time, yet never learn from it, and not a word of apology from them for their destructive ways , just more of what they did before.

I'm perfectly happy for people to be idiots, if they wish, heck, as far as I'm concerned anyone can be anything if they like, as long as they don't want to enforce their ways on me , if they do that, then its personal.

I have no real interest in politics, but the fact is, when you have authoritarian goons like the Labour Party ably suppoorted by their Trades Union boot boys who make a life by intimidating and interfering into the lives of others, then you have to take some interest, if only to thwart the aims of same.

The fact is , I'm not in the main, a holder of grudges , but as I was , as an employee, a target of Trades Union intimidation in the 90's , I make an exception when it comes to the Labour Party. I have no friends who support that particular party of envy and spite , to me,if they did they are totally PNG , they don't exist, no friend of mine.

I have no problem venting my displeasure in their faces either, as I have been forced to do so on occasion, not a word from them ever, about any iota of guilt or shame about the economic demolition they have wreaked upon us. Pitiful.

Labour Canvassers are politely, but firmly, told to get off the property . Canvassers from other parties are generally treated warmly.

The fact is, if the labourite/ socialist types want treating with respecet, earn it, that means many things, but above all, stop trashing the country and blaming everyone else for it, as Mr Balls has repeatedly done , untill those kind of things happen, I, and many others will continue to treat you with the contempt and derision you deserve.

Just some random thoughts.

[Gandahar]

Cheese Mechanic said:

I find it somewhat strange that Socialist lefties seem to think that they should be treated with respect. It just shows how arrogant they are . They berate and intimidate people, and seem to think that they are superior , especially when it comes to interfering in the lives of others.

They destroy our economy time after time, yet never learn from it, and not a word of apology from them for their destructive ways , just more of what they did before.

I'm perfectly happy for people to be idiots, if they wish, heck, as far as I'm concerned anyone can be anything if they like, as long as they don't want to enforce their ways on me , if they do that, then its personal.

I have no real interest in politics, but the fact is, when you have authoritarian goons like the Labour Party ably suppoorted by their Trades Union boot boys who make a life by intimidating and interfering into the lives of others, then you have to take some interest, if only to thwart the aims of same.

The fact is , I'm not in the main, a holder of grudges , but as I was , as an employee, a target of Trades Union intimidation in the 90's , I make an exception when it comes to the Labour Party. I have no friends who support that particular party of envy and spite , to me,if they did they are totally PNG , they don't exist, no friend of mine.

I have no problem venting my displeasure in their faces either, as I have been forced to do so on occasion, not a word from them ever, about any iota of guilt or shame about the economic demolition they have wreaked upon us. Pitiful.

Labour Canvassers are politely, but firmly, told to get off the property . Canvassers from other parties are generally treated warmly.

The fact is, if the labourite/ socialist types want treating with respecet, earn it, that means many things, but above all, stop trashing the country and blaming everyone else for it, as Mr Balls has repeatedly done , untill those kind of things happen, I, and many others will continue to treat you with the contempt and derision you deserve.

Just some random thoughts.

Indeed, unlike those greedy people in finance who keep ripping off the country ....

Rather than concentrating on one side of the spectrum it would be best to realise that both extremes have issues. That's why I am very central, believing everything in moderation.

As per the Bible ......

[trashbat]

CountZero23 said:

I was one of the two people who put green down in that poll

Hello

I've also been on U75 for about ten years. Didn't expect to see it mentioned here.

[Cheese Mechanic]

Derek Smith said:

But in the banking collapse, for that is what it was, those who were running successful businesses were hit for no fault of their own. That is a failure of capitalism.

The banking/financial collapse was directly down to Governmental fiscal policies it was a falure of politicians, namely Brown /Clinton etc, not capitalism.

Remember Brown "No more boom and bust" well, certainly no more of the former. Brown drove a property boom on borrowed money, the supply of which was propped up by a constant flow at low rates from the BoE. A policy, which could have only one end result, the one we got. I sold my house in 2006, suspecting what was to happen, although was not aware of the real severity of the scenario.

Clinton, he enabled Carters CRFA, a lunacy which leant on postcode, not on the ability to pay it back.Banks be forced to loan under those conditions by the state owned clearing houses Fannie/Freddie. Bush did not do anyhting about it allowed it to continue, that had only one end result, the one we got, mountains of toxic debt.

Clueless political interference, caused our economic ills, not capitalism