Opposite views to PH majority

[BGARK]

Where are the forums and discussions with the people who genuinely believe the Labour / Green fairy stories?

Everything I read online appears to be the opposite to their views, do they not use the internet?

[BlackLabel]

Guardian comments section?

[hairyben]

Not on car enthusiast sites...

OH works in the arts and my crowd is alternative music and most vocalised politic is about how anything seemingly right wing is an evil stooge bogeyman hate hate hate. Despite being on many levels quite intelligent people, I don't know that their engagement extends much beyond a sports-fan like loyalty to the right ("correct") "side" and posting puerile meme's though. Attempts to engage/debate/enquire quickly lead to quite angry responses.

[luweewu]

Try mumsnet

[AnotherClarkey]

The PH majority of what? The 'Poll of polls' thread demonstrated that Pistonheads is far from representative of the population as a whole.

[Slaav]

AnotherClarkey said:

The PH majority of what? The 'Poll of polls' thread demonstrated that Pistonheads is far from representative of the population as a whole.

And it is a shame that you are correct...

[AnotherClarkey]

Slaav said:

AnotherClarkey said:

The PH majority of what? The 'Poll of polls' thread demonstrated that Pistonheads is far from representative of the population as a whole.

And it is a shame that you are correct...

I don't think so. I enjoy talking st about cars but I certainly wouldn't want to live in Pistonheadsland. There is a huge amount of confirmation bias going on here.

[BlackVanDyke]

I'm by no means a member of the meek and obedient arselicking faithful, but I'm squarely leftie and a Labour party member.

There's no party running in this election whose policies I'm entirely comfortable with even if I thought they intended to honestly implement them.

[Quhet]

I disagree with a lot of the stuff that's posted in NP&E, CBA to argue though.

[Frik]

AnotherClarkey said:

I don't think so. I enjoy talking st about cars but I certainly wouldn't want to live in Pistonheadsland. There is a huge amount of confirmation bias going on here.

Amen to that.

[CountZero23]

I was one of the two people who put green down in that poll

[speedy_thrills]

BGARK said:

Everything I read online appears to be the opposite to their views, do they not use the internet?

I think at this point holes have been poked in every parties budget projections.

Conservative views don't prevail in the long term because they are at odds with the progressive nature of western society. As much as we love capitalism and buying things...that freedom of choice that Conservatives have championed recently, if you ask most British people what they consider to be progress they will usually use measures like living longer and healthier lives, being better educated and feeling happier. As a society most people have moved past a stage where individual material wealth is going to make a big difference to those measures, there is food on the table in abundance for most people (people forget but for most of human history that in itself would be almost unthinkable). However as a society there is still a lot we can do to improve those measures through social welfare, NHS, law and order etc. so as a society those things are likely to take up increasing economic resources.

While the public perceive that progress to be of great value any party that stands for prioritising individual wealth above delivering those programs cannot hope their views prevail in the long term. However until Thatcher most Conservatives did not seem to champion that very individualistic, which often borders on Social Darwinism, view either. Political parties change and they reinvent themselves as generations change, the Conservatives of the future may be very different to the post-Thatcher party we see today .

All in my view of course.

Edited by speedy_thrills on Tuesday 28th April 00:52

[davepoth]

speedy_thrills said:

BGARK said:

Everything I read online appears to be the opposite to their views, do they not use the internet?

I think at this point holes have been poked in every parties budget projections.

Conservative views don't prevail in the long term because they are at odds with the progressive nature of western society.

Except for the USA. And all of the right wing politicians being elected in Europe at the moment. And Japan. And Australia. There is a rising tide around the world of people in wealthier nations who for one reason or another have become disenchanted with socialism. What's that all about?

speedy_thrills said:

As much as we love capitalism and buying things...that freedom of choice that Conservatives have championed recently, if you ask most British people what they consider to be progress they will usually use measures like living longer and healthier lives, being better educated and feeling happier. As a society most people have moved past a stage where individual material wealth is going to make a big difference to those measures,there is food on the table in abundance for most people (people forget but for most of human history that in itself would be almost unthinkable).

On the contrary. There is a 25 year gap in life expectancy between the richest and poorest parts of London.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/a-25-y...

Pretty much the only difference there (given that a lot of the welfare systems are comparable) is money.

speedy_thrills said:

However as a society there is still a lot we can do to improve those measures through social welfare, NHS, law and order etc. so as a society those things are likely to take up increasing economic resources.

While the public perceive that progress to be of great value any party that stands for prioritising individual wealth above delivering those programs cannot hope their views prevail in the long term.

So who is going to pay for it all exactly? Our economy is simply not built in a way that can support a welfare state without taxing rich people - and that's currently probably about as much as they can be soaked for before they begin to ebb away. The figures show the top rate of tax is now about the optimum for revenue generation, and raising it further smacks of an ideological decision rather than a sound financial one.

[Twilkes]

I also look in on Digital Spy's politics forum - more representation from left wing, mainly Labour views, although I sometimes think their arguments are short on economics, which while all the socialist stuff is great in theory, it needs to be paid for and sometimes people don't seem to realise that. Possibly including the Labour party (eep).

I started reading NP&E last summer as I was looking for forums that were discussing the referendum - it seemed to make a comprehensive case for the economy of not going independent, and the handful of vocal Yes voters seemed to be empty vessels that would tee-up solid arguments from the sceptics. So that was good.

But there were a couple of threads a month ago where I thought 'Woah, hang on, that's pretty far from what I think, maybe I should get some balance from elsewhere' but I can't for the life of me remember which threads they were. I think it might have been some views in the depression/mental health/German Wings discussion, and it was only some of you, but a surprisingly large minority.

[MarshPhantom]

BGARK said:

Where are the forums and discussions with the people who genuinely believe the Labour / Green fairy stories?

This is part of the problem, in PH world the Tories never lie, don't talk bks, don't announce plans they can't afford.

If you do think that you haven't been following the election coverage

[AJS-]

I've often thought this as a result of talking to people - who exactly are all these people who think such stupid things? They are out there though.

Twitter is full of left wing numpties.

Then there's this place http://www.urban75.net/forums/

I posted there a few times years ago, just to get a bite. The thing that struck me after a while, and many, many bites, was that the left don't generally discuss things in the way things are discussed on here.

Here's their general election thread http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/general-elec...

I've only had a quick scan through it, so I may have missed out pages of insightful comments and considered discussion, but I don't believe so. Instead it's page after page of people competing to show off how much they hate the Tories, Thatcher, UKIP and so forth.

The thing with left wingery is that there really isn't all that much to discuss. The state can answer everything by spending money appropriated from "the rich."

I'm sure that's why Twitter is so left wing - easy sound bites fired off to be "liked" by an idle mass who can't be bothered to read or educate themselves yet feel they deserve more. Blogs and message boards tend to be much more right wing, because they require you have to actually put forward a coherent argument that will be tested by counter arguments.

[MarshPhantom]

AJS- said:

I've only had a quick scan through it, so I may have missed out pages of insightful comments and considered discussion, but I don't believe so. Instead it's page after page of people competing to show off how much they hate the Tories, Thatcher, UKIP and so forth.

Insert Labour, Blair, SNP and so forth and you could be talking about PH.

[mph1977]

BGARK said:

Where are the forums and discussions with the people who genuinely believe the Labour / Green fairy stories?

Everything I read online appears to be the opposite to their views, do they not use the internet?

urban75.net

[anonymous-user]

AJS- said:

I've often thought this as a result of talking to people - who exactly are all these people who think such stupid things? They are out there though.

Twitter is full of left wing numpties.

Then there's this place http://www.urban75.net/forums/

I posted there a few times years ago, just to get a bite. The thing that struck me after a while, and many, many bites, was that the left don't generally discuss things in the way things are discussed on here.

Here's their general election thread http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/general-elec...

I've only had a quick scan through it, so I may have missed out pages of insightful comments and considered discussion, but I don't believe so. Instead it's page after page of people competing to show off how much they hate the Tories, Thatcher, UKIP and so forth.

The thing with left wingery is that there really isn't all that much to discuss. The state can answer everything by spending money appropriated from "the rich."

I'm sure that's why Twitter is so left wing - easy sound bites fired off to be "liked" by an idle mass who can't be bothered to read or educate themselves yet feel they deserve more. Blogs and message boards tend to be much more right wing, because they require you have to actually put forward a coherent argument that will be tested by counter arguments.

Exactly what he said.

They are out there, but you have to look in the right places.

I work for one of the biggest social housing providers in the UK, which acquired its 70,000+ stock by going round buying up smaller Housing Associations and Council Housing departments, so naturally there is still sizeable hardcore of Left Wing/Labour supporting employees in most of the offices who are still there from both the council housing years and also from the happy-clappy Left you usually find in smaller Housing Assocaions. At pre-election time, they go into overdrive and seemingly all start canvassing with Labour candidates, Twittering, putting up posters, wearing Red clothes to the office, you name it.

Now I love a good debate, so often try to discuss the upcoming election and party policy with these people, however you cannot have a sensible discussion with them as they simply get angry.

Getting angry, spouting about Banking, Thatcher, large businesses, and taxing the 'Rich' is all you tend you get out of them which is unfortunate.

[Guybrush]

AJS- said:

I've often thought this as a result of talking to people - who exactly are all these people who think such stupid things? They are out there though.

Twitter is full of left wing numpties.

Then there's this place http://www.urban75.net/forums/

I posted there a few times years ago, just to get a bite. The thing that struck me after a while, and many, many bites, was that the left don't generally discuss things in the way things are discussed on here.

Here's their general election thread http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/general-elec...

I've only had a quick scan through it, so I may have missed out pages of insightful comments and considered discussion, but I don't believe so. Instead it's page after page of people competing to show off how much they hate the Tories, Thatcher, UKIP and so forth.

The thing with left wingery is that there really isn't all that much to discuss. The state can answer everything by spending money appropriated from "the rich."

I'm sure that's why Twitter is so left wing - easy sound bites fired off to be "liked" by an idle mass who can't be bothered to read or educate themselves yet feel they deserve more. Blogs and message boards tend to be much more right wing, because they require you have to actually put forward a coherent argument that will be tested by counter arguments.

I think that sums up Labour's marketing strategy - they clearly know their target market; ensure there's a class distinction element and loads of uncosted promises (after all if one's manifesto doesn't add up, it's best kept vague) and try to avoid the evidence of every previous attempt to manage the economy.