Who will be the new Labour leader?
Poll: Who will be the new Labour leader?
Total Members Polled: 378
Discussion
Einion Yrth said:
Foppo said:
I still don't understand why voting is not compulsory people died for this right
Some people died for the right to abstain. Forcing people to vote would not result in a more informed choice, merely people doing the bare minimum to avoid being fined. It's a ghastly illiberal idea typical of the statist left.Foppo said:
Our election system is a farce and it is relevant the way a country is run.Proper proportional representation means you represent the whole of society.
I used to think this but no longer hold this view. Our electoral system has some huge benefits compared to the more PR like systems in the EU. With PR, almost always parties would be in a minority, a GE result could return a significantly smaller minority for an unpopular largest party, and despite a rejection by an overwhelming majority of the population you'd likely still have that party leading the government. Our system allows typically an unpopular incumbent to be booted out, it doesn't take a massive reduction in support for a party for them to pay the price. Wait for our legacy parties to start making noises about PR when their levels of support get close to falling off the FPTP cliff.
Einion Yrth said:
Foppo said:
I still don't understand why voting is not compulsory people died for this right
Some people died for the right to abstain. Forcing people to vote would not result in a more informed choice, merely people doing the bare minimum to avoid being fined. It's a ghastly illiberal idea typical of the statist left.You may compel someone to go the polling station, take a ballot paper and go into the booth but once they are in there they may 'spoil' the ballot paper or not make any mark on it.
You can't force them to put a X in any box. Well, not in anything resembling a free democracy anyway.
Foppo said:
Proper proportional representation means you represent the whole of society.
I am not sure that PR does that at all. In fact it often leads to "tail wagging the dog" issues. The simple fact is that no parliament, whether elected by FPTP, PR or ouija board can make decisions in which everyone can feel that their view has been represented. There will always be people who feel that their view is not being taken into account. You could argue that you might get closer to consensus politics, but this in turn produces two more problems: What differentiates the parties when everyone is supposedly responsible for the final decision? And do you end up with sensible, workable policies being enacted, or just wishy washy compromises - horse designed by committee = Camel sort of thing!My view is that whilst FPTP is deeply flawed, it probably represents the simplest and thus least bad form of electoral governance
MGJohn said:
With one exception, and even he was a loser on May 8th, across all the parties, not a single one of any of the Politicians currently involved with the well being of my Country whether in Government or shadows of their former shadows, inspire much, nay, any confidence.
Prior to May 8th, I had some little respect for Cameron but, since then, he has done precious little, nay nothing to change my mind. Correction, he has eroded what little confidence I had in him previously. Am I the only one who sees things this way?
Talk about the least worst of a poor range of choices.
Maybe I am. Probably a sign ... that I'm getting older .... and wiser.
One thing is a certainty, no matter what way the IN-OUT Referendum is worded, it is going to take some miracle to make me change my mindset on how I will vote when the time comes.
We are doomed.
Your posts before 8 May showed no evidence of any respect for Cameron.Prior to May 8th, I had some little respect for Cameron but, since then, he has done precious little, nay nothing to change my mind. Correction, he has eroded what little confidence I had in him previously. Am I the only one who sees things this way?
Talk about the least worst of a poor range of choices.
Maybe I am. Probably a sign ... that I'm getting older .... and wiser.
One thing is a certainty, no matter what way the IN-OUT Referendum is worded, it is going to take some miracle to make me change my mindset on how I will vote when the time comes.
We are doomed.
Didn't you make the exact same post in the UKIP thread?
snuffy said:
And what purpose exactly would that serve ?
It would allow those who would otherwise have stayed at home for reasons of inability to enthuse over any candidate on offer. You cannot force someone to choose among a crop of candidates whose offerings are contrary to the voter's opinion.motco said:
snuffy said:
And what purpose exactly would that serve ?
It would allow those who would otherwise have stayed at home for reasons of inability to enthuse over any candidate on offer. You cannot force someone to choose among a crop of candidates whose offerings are contrary to the voter's opinion.DJRC said:
I'm trying to think of anything CMD has actually done since May to make you think differently if him one way or another. Hasn't he spent it mostly on holiday the same as the rest of them??
Yep Judge him on 5 years not a few months. The budget already represented a decisive break from the past let us see what happens with the Human Rights Act, immigration and EU renegotiation.
Contrary to what the bookies are saying (and the opinion polls) I still can't believe that Labour will elect Corbyn. Part of my day job is in politics, and I have yet to meet a labour member (or councillor) who admits to voting for him. It might be a completely unrepresentative sample (or they are lying), in which case I have the popcorn at the ready for his first outing at PMQ's.
Esseesse said:
Einion Yrth said:
Foppo said:
I still don't understand why voting is not compulsory people died for this right
Some people died for the right to abstain. Forcing people to vote would not result in a more informed choice, merely people doing the bare minimum to avoid being fined. It's a ghastly illiberal idea typical of the statist left.crankedup said:
Esseesse said:
Einion Yrth said:
Foppo said:
I still don't understand why voting is not compulsory people died for this right
Some people died for the right to abstain. Forcing people to vote would not result in a more informed choice, merely people doing the bare minimum to avoid being fined. It's a ghastly illiberal idea typical of the statist left.Halb said:
Anyone watching C4 news?
Bag of dirty weasels, Burnham especially. The only one speaking honestly it seems is Corbyn.
Christ listening to the other three makes me itch, just a bunch of sound-bite speakers.
IMHO this is true. Corbyn does speak honestly and probably has more integrity than all the other candidates put together. The problem is Corbyn's honest views and intents make a lot of folk, who can remember the disaster of the 70's, 'itch' even more!Bag of dirty weasels, Burnham especially. The only one speaking honestly it seems is Corbyn.
Christ listening to the other three makes me itch, just a bunch of sound-bite speakers.
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