Who will be the new Labour leader?

Who will be the new Labour leader?

Poll: Who will be the new Labour leader?

Total Members Polled: 378

David Miliband: 7%
Dan Jarvis: 8%
Chuka Umunna: 22%
Andy Burnham: 21%
Harriet Harman: 7%
Jim Murphy: 2%
An other: 33%
Author
Discussion

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Einion Yrth said:
Foppo said:
I still don't understand why voting is not compulsory people died for this right
Some people died for the right to abstain. Forcing people to vote would not result in a more informed choice, merely people doing the bare minimum to avoid being fined. It's a ghastly illiberal idea typical of the statist left.
Indeed, Einion is correct. If you had to vote, then the unpopular winning party would be able to claim endorsement by a more significant portion of the population.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Foppo said:
Our election system is a farce and it is relevant the way a country is run.Proper proportional representation means you represent the whole of society.
I used to think this but no longer hold this view. Our electoral system has some huge benefits compared to the more PR like systems in the EU. With PR, almost always parties would be in a minority, a GE result could return a significantly smaller minority for an unpopular largest party, and despite a rejection by an overwhelming majority of the population you'd likely still have that party leading the government. Our system allows typically an unpopular incumbent to be booted out, it doesn't take a massive reduction in support for a party for them to pay the price.

Wait for our legacy parties to start making noises about PR when their levels of support get close to falling off the FPTP cliff.

Puddenchucker

4,036 posts

217 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Einion Yrth said:
Foppo said:
I still don't understand why voting is not compulsory people died for this right
Some people died for the right to abstain. Forcing people to vote would not result in a more informed choice, merely people doing the bare minimum to avoid being fined. It's a ghastly illiberal idea typical of the statist left.
Precisely.
You may compel someone to go the polling station, take a ballot paper and go into the booth but once they are in there they may 'spoil' the ballot paper or not make any mark on it.
You can't force them to put a X in any box. Well, not in anything resembling a free democracy anyway.


Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
I think compulsory voting would be a good idea so long as it was twinned with an option for 'none of the above.'

andymadmak

14,482 posts

269 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Foppo said:
Proper proportional representation means you represent the whole of society.
I am not sure that PR does that at all. In fact it often leads to "tail wagging the dog" issues. The simple fact is that no parliament, whether elected by FPTP, PR or ouija board can make decisions in which everyone can feel that their view has been represented. There will always be people who feel that their view is not being taken into account. You could argue that you might get closer to consensus politics, but this in turn produces two more problems: What differentiates the parties when everyone is supposedly responsible for the final decision? And do you end up with sensible, workable policies being enacted, or just wishy washy compromises - horse designed by committee = Camel sort of thing!

My view is that whilst FPTP is deeply flawed, it probably represents the simplest and thus least bad form of electoral governance

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
MGJohn said:
With one exception, and even he was a loser on May 8th, across all the parties, not a single one of any of the Politicians currently involved with the well being of my Country whether in Government or shadows of their former shadows, inspire much, nay, any confidence.

Prior to May 8th, I had some little respect for Cameron but, since then, he has done precious little, nay nothing to change my mind. Correction, he has eroded what little confidence I had in him previously. Am I the only one who sees things this way?

Talk about the least worst of a poor range of choices.

Maybe I am. Probably a sign ... that I'm getting older .... and wiser.

One thing is a certainty, no matter what way the IN-OUT Referendum is worded, it is going to take some miracle to make me change my mindset on how I will vote when the time comes.

We are doomed.
Your posts before 8 May showed no evidence of any respect for Cameron.

Didn't you make the exact same post in the UKIP thread?

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
I'm trying to think of anything CMD has actually done since May to make you think differently if him one way or another. Hasn't he spent it mostly on holiday the same as the rest of them??

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
DJRC said:
I'm trying to think of anything CMD has actually done since May to make you think differently if him one way or another. Hasn't he spent it mostly on holiday the same as the rest of them??
Well, Osborne delivered a budget that upset the socialists.

AstonZagato

12,652 posts

209 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Halb said:
I think compulsory voting would be a good idea so long as it was twinned with an option for 'none of the above.'
What happens when "None of the above" gets elected by a landslide?

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
AstonZagato said:
Halb said:
I think compulsory voting would be a good idea so long as it was twinned with an option for 'none of the above.'
What happens when "None of the above" gets elected by a landslide?
New election called. hehe

snuffy

9,661 posts

283 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Halb said:
I think compulsory voting would be a good idea so long as it was twinned with an option for 'none of the above.'
And what purpose exactly would that serve ?

motco

15,919 posts

245 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
snuffy said:
And what purpose exactly would that serve ?
It would allow those who would otherwise have stayed at home for reasons of inability to enthuse over any candidate on offer. You cannot force someone to choose among a crop of candidates whose offerings are contrary to the voter's opinion.

snuffy

9,661 posts

283 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
motco said:
snuffy said:
And what purpose exactly would that serve ?
It would allow those who would otherwise have stayed at home for reasons of inability to enthuse over any candidate on offer. You cannot force someone to choose among a crop of candidates whose offerings are contrary to the voter's opinion.
Voters can only choose between the candidates they are offered. Therefore, if a voter selects "non of the above" it serves no practical purpose. For example, suppose the highest number of "Votes" went to "non of the above", then what would you do ? Elect no one ? What purpose does that serve ?

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
There are suggestions (I haven't seen a poll yet) that support for the LibDems is increasing sharply as a result of the seemingly inevitable appointment of Corbyn as Labour leader. Who would have thought that possible?

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
DJRC said:
I'm trying to think of anything CMD has actually done since May to make you think differently if him one way or another. Hasn't he spent it mostly on holiday the same as the rest of them??
Yep

Judge him on 5 years not a few months. The budget already represented a decisive break from the past let us see what happens with the Human Rights Act, immigration and EU renegotiation.

tim0409

4,355 posts

158 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Contrary to what the bookies are saying (and the opinion polls) I still can't believe that Labour will elect Corbyn. Part of my day job is in politics, and I have yet to meet a labour member (or councillor) who admits to voting for him. It might be a completely unrepresentative sample (or they are lying), in which case I have the popcorn at the ready for his first outing at PMQ's.

Beati Dogu

8,862 posts

138 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Judge him on 5 years not a few months. The budget already represented a decisive break from the past let us see what happens with the Human Rights Act, immigration and EU renegotiation.
I'm predicting nothing, nothing and nothing.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
Einion Yrth said:
Foppo said:
I still don't understand why voting is not compulsory people died for this right
Some people died for the right to abstain. Forcing people to vote would not result in a more informed choice, merely people doing the bare minimum to avoid being fined. It's a ghastly illiberal idea typical of the statist left.
Indeed, Einion is correct. If you had to vote, then the unpopular winning party would be able to claim endorsement by a more significant portion of the population.
Misses the point of mandatory voting. Bring in the system and in the ballot paper would be an abstention box to X. Just the job for those who genuinely do not support any political party standing and remains a democratic process.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
crankedup said:
Esseesse said:
Einion Yrth said:
Foppo said:
I still don't understand why voting is not compulsory people died for this right
Some people died for the right to abstain. Forcing people to vote would not result in a more informed choice, merely people doing the bare minimum to avoid being fined. It's a ghastly illiberal idea typical of the statist left.
Indeed, Einion is correct. If you had to vote, then the unpopular winning party would be able to claim endorsement by a more significant portion of the population.
Misses the point of mandatory voting. Bring in the system and in the ballot paper would be an abstention box to X. Just the job for those who genuinely do not support any political party standing and remains a democratic process.
I believe this is what happens in Australia?

Garvin

5,157 posts

176 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Halb said:
Anyone watching C4 news?

Bag of dirty weasels, Burnham especially. The only one speaking honestly it seems is Corbyn.
Christ listening to the other three makes me itch, just a bunch of sound-bite speakers.
IMHO this is true. Corbyn does speak honestly and probably has more integrity than all the other candidates put together. The problem is Corbyn's honest views and intents make a lot of folk, who can remember the disaster of the 70's, 'itch' even more!