Heathrow Expansion
Discussion
esuuv said:
I have to say i think this is all a little bit NIMBY - i live in Richmond, they fly right over and I just totally tune it out, i barely notice the planes - they swap it out / mix it up - even in the summer when the windows are open at night I don't notice them.
Also handy having one of the worlds best connected airports on the doorstep for work.
Nice part of London in many respects (where I moved from Also handy having one of the worlds best connected airports on the doorstep for work.
).But when you live somewhere quiet and go back for a visit (Maki remains one of my favourite Japanese restaurants) the noise really hits you - not just planes but emergency services, general traffic etc.
And as for being close to the airport....kind of. At the wrong time of day it could still take me over half an hour to get to Heathrow from Richmond Circus.
I used to live in Battersea, right under the flight path, and plane noise never bothered me at all. However, I can't for the life of me see how LHR can be the best option for providing extra capacity. Someone recently said to me "think of the jobs" - well, those will exist/be created wherever the new capacity is based. I think there are at least two very good counter-arguments to LHR expansion outside of any directly airline-business-related matters:
1. I just can't see how, in the current day & age, with all we know about terror/extremism, it is a good idea to fly a massive number of planes DIRECTLY over the capital city and the key business districts, let alone all the heritage and tourism that goes with it. Dropping a plane anywhere from Greenwich to Richmond would cause carnage beyond belief, and everyone can see from recent and relatively-recent events that it would not be particularly difficult to do so, although we're somewhat stuck with he current arrangements. But do we really want to increase the odds?
2. Transport. The western side of the M25 must be one of the least pleasant places in the UK to have to travel by car, at any time of day, let alone ramping up the traffic levels even more. Granted the M23 isn't great either but could surely more easily be extended/improved. There are fast trains into LGW as well as LHR. There's no tube, but who really wants to sit on the District line for an hour before/after a flight anyway?
Just my tuppence.
1. I just can't see how, in the current day & age, with all we know about terror/extremism, it is a good idea to fly a massive number of planes DIRECTLY over the capital city and the key business districts, let alone all the heritage and tourism that goes with it. Dropping a plane anywhere from Greenwich to Richmond would cause carnage beyond belief, and everyone can see from recent and relatively-recent events that it would not be particularly difficult to do so, although we're somewhat stuck with he current arrangements. But do we really want to increase the odds?
2. Transport. The western side of the M25 must be one of the least pleasant places in the UK to have to travel by car, at any time of day, let alone ramping up the traffic levels even more. Granted the M23 isn't great either but could surely more easily be extended/improved. There are fast trains into LGW as well as LHR. There's no tube, but who really wants to sit on the District line for an hour before/after a flight anyway?
Just my tuppence.
rs1952 said:
I seem to recall that you put up the same strawman argument about HS2 on a thread just recently. That's not the way infrastructure projects work.
If we did do things your way, the UK motorway network would never have been built.
In actual fact, airlines are charged a fee for using airport facilities, or perhaps you didn't know that?
Try either using a better argument or remember what you've said on earlier posts and how it was shot down in flames then. Some of us have reasonably good memories
How is it a strawman? Every person in the country will be forced to invest in their business and take on the risk of it not working out, if it was that good a proposal then people would be looking to invest voluntarily with the potential returns. If it isn't possible to build infrastructure in this way how were the railways built in the 19th century without state funding?If we did do things your way, the UK motorway network would never have been built.
In actual fact, airlines are charged a fee for using airport facilities, or perhaps you didn't know that?
Try either using a better argument or remember what you've said on earlier posts and how it was shot down in flames then. Some of us have reasonably good memories
Is there any actual (impartial) evidence that says we need more airport capacity, whether it is funded privately or publicly?
CAPP0 said:
I used to live in Battersea, right under the flight path, and plane noise never bothered me at all. However, I can't for the life of me see how LHR can be the best option for providing extra capacity. Someone recently said to me "think of the jobs" - well, those will exist/be created wherever the new capacity is based. I think there are at least two very good counter-arguments to LHR expansion outside of any directly airline-business-related matters:
1. I just can't see how, in the current day & age, with all we know about terror/extremism, it is a good idea to fly a massive number of planes DIRECTLY over the capital city and the key business districts, let alone all the heritage and tourism that goes with it. Dropping a plane anywhere from Greenwich to Richmond would cause carnage beyond belief, and everyone can see from recent and relatively-recent events that it would not be particularly difficult to do so, although we're somewhat stuck with he current arrangements. But do we really want to increase the odds?
2. Transport. The western side of the M25 must be one of the least pleasant places in the UK to have to travel by car, at any time of day, let alone ramping up the traffic levels even more. Granted the M23 isn't great either but could surely more easily be extended/improved. There are fast trains into LGW as well as LHR. There's no tube, but who really wants to sit on the District line for an hour before/after a flight anyway?
Just my tuppence.
It's the piccadilly line not district, dead handy and cheap if you live in this part of the world- 30 minutes from Turnham Green. Agree re the traffic though.1. I just can't see how, in the current day & age, with all we know about terror/extremism, it is a good idea to fly a massive number of planes DIRECTLY over the capital city and the key business districts, let alone all the heritage and tourism that goes with it. Dropping a plane anywhere from Greenwich to Richmond would cause carnage beyond belief, and everyone can see from recent and relatively-recent events that it would not be particularly difficult to do so, although we're somewhat stuck with he current arrangements. But do we really want to increase the odds?
2. Transport. The western side of the M25 must be one of the least pleasant places in the UK to have to travel by car, at any time of day, let alone ramping up the traffic levels even more. Granted the M23 isn't great either but could surely more easily be extended/improved. There are fast trains into LGW as well as LHR. There's no tube, but who really wants to sit on the District line for an hour before/after a flight anyway?
Just my tuppence.
The Mad Monk said:
Why did you choose to live in a house under the flight path?
Didn't you know what you were doing?
If you knew anything about the recent trials they have been altering the flight path quite considerably over the last few years and having lived in the area for almost 10 years I have noticed it get considerably worse of late. And not the only one..Didn't you know what you were doing?
http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/site/custom_scripts/g...
Heathrow is actually well placed for the rest of the country. Yes it can be a pain getting there from parts of London by car, but coming from the West it is fairly clear and from Midlands etc it is only a few junctions of the M25.
The best scenario would be to expand it, but take up some of the suggestions to move the new runways further away from London to reduce noise.
The best scenario would be to expand it, but take up some of the suggestions to move the new runways further away from London to reduce noise.
The Mad Monk said:
CAPP0 said:
2. Transport. There's no tube, but who really wants to sit on the District line for an hour before/after a flight anyway?
Just my tuppence.
How did you get yourself onto the District Line?Just my tuppence.
truck71 said:
It's the piccadilly line not district, dead handy and cheap if you live in this part of the world- 30 minutes from Turnham Green. Agree re the traffic though.
Yeah yeah, my mistake, was a long time ago that I lived there and travelled out, cba to find a tube map, colour of the line doesn't make it any quicker though!AAGR said:
Johnnytheboy said:
They'll choose Gatwick over Heathrow - I bet.
They'll fudge, and announce another review just to delay a decision - I'll betIt's an endless cycle of election and consultation process then election then consultation process.
I grew up in Hounslow.
From the age of 10 to about 30, I lived in a house that was mid-way between the two flight paths, 28 (as it was then) Left out the back of my house, 28 Right, out of the front.
We had to live with the likes of tridents, Concorde, DC8's etc etc which were incredibly noisy, and pollution was a lot worse than now.
We just got on with it, and lived with it.
When I moved to Sandhurst in 94, I could not sleep for the first month or so, because it was too quiet, you just get used to it.
People that complain about the noise and pollution have no idea!
Heathrow tried out a new departure route for a few months, which involved the aircraft flying over Camberley, Crowthorne, Lightwater etc. The locals were furious, continually banging on about aircraft taking off at 5am, etc etc etc.
Right up until the point I reminded them that trials that they were discussing had finished several weeks earlier, and the 5am "takeoffs" were actually 5am landing, when the aircraft were on much reduced power!
Bring on the expansion I say!
From the age of 10 to about 30, I lived in a house that was mid-way between the two flight paths, 28 (as it was then) Left out the back of my house, 28 Right, out of the front.
We had to live with the likes of tridents, Concorde, DC8's etc etc which were incredibly noisy, and pollution was a lot worse than now.
We just got on with it, and lived with it.
When I moved to Sandhurst in 94, I could not sleep for the first month or so, because it was too quiet, you just get used to it.
People that complain about the noise and pollution have no idea!
Heathrow tried out a new departure route for a few months, which involved the aircraft flying over Camberley, Crowthorne, Lightwater etc. The locals were furious, continually banging on about aircraft taking off at 5am, etc etc etc.
Right up until the point I reminded them that trials that they were discussing had finished several weeks earlier, and the 5am "takeoffs" were actually 5am landing, when the aircraft were on much reduced power!
Bring on the expansion I say!
Here is my take on the matter.
I was born in Chiswick, lived in Hounslow until I was 27 and my family are still in Twickenham, I've a brother who is a BA engineer at Heathrow so the airport has been an intrinsic part of my life.
Noise has never been an issue to me, I love seeing planes coming in to land on their final approach even though I'm no plane spotter.
I can't think many are realistically bothered by the noise, certainly not enough to move or not move into the area.
For this part of West London (and i'd go as far as Reading) Heathrow is and has been the driving force behind the economy and it's the strongest economy in the country.
The number of huge firms whop have headquarters or regional offices in the area is huge, drive along the Great West Road and you can see it. Without the airport thousands of business wouldn't be there and i mean every type of business.
There will be few who live or work in the Heathrow corridor who aren't connected to the airport in some way.
House prices in the area are the highest in Europe i'd say and the airport is a driving force for this, far from aircraft noise stopping people wanting to live there it seems to make no difference.
Ever since i can remember there has been talk about heathrow expansion, extra runways etc.
There have been countless proposals and hearings and we now have recently had Heathrow lose it's crown as the busiest International airport.
Successive governments have pondered, considered and sat around while other countries have just got on with it.
Time has even been wasted on ridiculous Boris island plans and expansion proposals at Kent airports.
We need to get on this urgently.
Build a new runway or two and add some terminals, it would take six months at most to do and I'm afraid i'd ignore the NIMBYs, native newt population and cries from others.
Get it done and get the UK back to the forefront of international air transport.
We are making this so much harder and more complicated than needed as is the normal way.
I was born in Chiswick, lived in Hounslow until I was 27 and my family are still in Twickenham, I've a brother who is a BA engineer at Heathrow so the airport has been an intrinsic part of my life.
Noise has never been an issue to me, I love seeing planes coming in to land on their final approach even though I'm no plane spotter.
I can't think many are realistically bothered by the noise, certainly not enough to move or not move into the area.
For this part of West London (and i'd go as far as Reading) Heathrow is and has been the driving force behind the economy and it's the strongest economy in the country.
The number of huge firms whop have headquarters or regional offices in the area is huge, drive along the Great West Road and you can see it. Without the airport thousands of business wouldn't be there and i mean every type of business.
There will be few who live or work in the Heathrow corridor who aren't connected to the airport in some way.
House prices in the area are the highest in Europe i'd say and the airport is a driving force for this, far from aircraft noise stopping people wanting to live there it seems to make no difference.
Ever since i can remember there has been talk about heathrow expansion, extra runways etc.
There have been countless proposals and hearings and we now have recently had Heathrow lose it's crown as the busiest International airport.
Successive governments have pondered, considered and sat around while other countries have just got on with it.
Time has even been wasted on ridiculous Boris island plans and expansion proposals at Kent airports.
We need to get on this urgently.
Build a new runway or two and add some terminals, it would take six months at most to do and I'm afraid i'd ignore the NIMBYs, native newt population and cries from others.
Get it done and get the UK back to the forefront of international air transport.
We are making this so much harder and more complicated than needed as is the normal way.
Sir Humphrey said:
If expanding Heathrow is such a good idea and everybody will use the extra capacity why don't they put the money up themselves and charge airlines a fee for using their new runways?
The amount they go on about how it should be paid for by taxation almost makes me think its not really worth doing.
They* are, there's no call on taxation. It's provately owned and funded and has been for donkeys years. The amount they go on about how it should be paid for by taxation almost makes me think its not really worth doing.
- We - I work there.
Thankyou4calling said:
Here is my take on the matter.
I was born in Chiswick, lived in Hounslow until I was 27 and my family are still in Twickenham, I've a brother who is a BA engineer at Heathrow so the airport has been an intrinsic part of my life.
Noise has never been an issue to me, I love seeing planes coming in to land on their final approach even though I'm no plane spotter.
I can't think many are realistically bothered by the noise, certainly not enough to move or not move into the area.
For this part of West London (and i'd go as far as Reading) Heathrow is and has been the driving force behind the economy and it's the strongest economy in the country.
The number of huge firms whop have headquarters or regional offices in the area is huge, drive along the Great West Road and you can see it. Without the airport thousands of business wouldn't be there and i mean every type of business.
There will be few who live or work in the Heathrow corridor who aren't connected to the airport in some way.
House prices in the area are the highest in Europe i'd say and the airport is a driving force for this, far from aircraft noise stopping people wanting to live there it seems to make no difference.
Ever since i can remember there has been talk about heathrow expansion, extra runways etc.
There have been countless proposals and hearings and we now have recently had Heathrow lose it's crown as the busiest International airport.
Successive governments have pondered, considered and sat around while other countries have just got on with it.
Time has even been wasted on ridiculous Boris island plans and expansion proposals at Kent airports.
We need to get on this urgently.
Build a new runway or two and add some terminals, it would take six months at most to do and I'm afraid i'd ignore the NIMBYs, native newt population and cries from others.
Get it done and get the UK back to the forefront of international air transport.
We are making this so much harder and more complicated than needed as is the normal way.
Hmm, not sure it's quite as simple as that but you're right- too much procrastination. I also agree that there is a significant contribution to the West London economy generated by the airport (it's what brought me here). At the same time I have to acknowledge I'm a NIMBY, I'd rather the solution went elsewhere but that's purely selfish.I was born in Chiswick, lived in Hounslow until I was 27 and my family are still in Twickenham, I've a brother who is a BA engineer at Heathrow so the airport has been an intrinsic part of my life.
Noise has never been an issue to me, I love seeing planes coming in to land on their final approach even though I'm no plane spotter.
I can't think many are realistically bothered by the noise, certainly not enough to move or not move into the area.
For this part of West London (and i'd go as far as Reading) Heathrow is and has been the driving force behind the economy and it's the strongest economy in the country.
The number of huge firms whop have headquarters or regional offices in the area is huge, drive along the Great West Road and you can see it. Without the airport thousands of business wouldn't be there and i mean every type of business.
There will be few who live or work in the Heathrow corridor who aren't connected to the airport in some way.
House prices in the area are the highest in Europe i'd say and the airport is a driving force for this, far from aircraft noise stopping people wanting to live there it seems to make no difference.
Ever since i can remember there has been talk about heathrow expansion, extra runways etc.
There have been countless proposals and hearings and we now have recently had Heathrow lose it's crown as the busiest International airport.
Successive governments have pondered, considered and sat around while other countries have just got on with it.
Time has even been wasted on ridiculous Boris island plans and expansion proposals at Kent airports.
We need to get on this urgently.
Build a new runway or two and add some terminals, it would take six months at most to do and I'm afraid i'd ignore the NIMBYs, native newt population and cries from others.
Get it done and get the UK back to the forefront of international air transport.
We are making this so much harder and more complicated than needed as is the normal way.
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