Mhairi Black's already broken protocol on the first day

[Andy Zarse]

BrabusMog said:

Andy Zarse said:

fluffnik said:

You can't have it both ways.

You do if you're Scottish!

It's not funny. They get to vote on their own hunting rules, and then on ours which don't affect them.

[Rollin]

Andy Zarse said:

BrabusMog said:

Andy Zarse said:

fluffnik said:

You can't have it both ways.

You do if you're Scottish!

It's not funny. They get to vote on their own hunting rules, and then on ours which don't affect them.

...and voting to keep the fox hunting legislation stronger than theirs.

[NoNeed]

matchmaker said:

Hol said:

All parties have people paid to write and edit speeches?

Knowing people would be looking at this one, I would estimate a LOT of backroom people contributed to its editing.

She does have a first class honours degree in Politics and Public Policy.

A good write up on her speech

http://www.capx.co/the-big-problem-with-mhairi-bla...

[r11co]

NoNeed said:

A good write up on her speech

http://www.capx.co/the-big-problem-with-mhairi-bla...

I came in here to post this and found you'd got there already. Superbly well observed piece, citing the true history of Paisley from someone who was there to experience it, rather than re-interpreted through the eyes of a 20-year-old who heard it all second-hand from biased family members and partisan university lecturers.

[dandarez]

NoNeed said:

matchmaker said:

Hol said:

All parties have people paid to write and edit speeches?

Knowing people would be looking at this one, I would estimate a LOT of backroom people contributed to its editing.

She does have a first class honours degree in Politics and Public Policy.

A good write up on her speech

http://www.capx.co/the-big-problem-with-mhairi-bla...

Nah, a bias write up on her speech by a very 'right' journo who loves the word Marxist more than a Marxist! (Incidentally, I couldn't care less one way or the other, and am certainly not left leaning by any stretch).

Black says one of her heroes is Benn. To which Martin responds with
'...Tony Benn, the fanatic who almost destroyed the Labour party, which had to be rescued by Neil Kinnock...'

'Rescued'?????

This is a writer who harps on and on about Paisley, he was born there, but apparently 'left Paisley years ago'. Nonetheless, he's an expert on the town.

He actually left Paisley in 1981 which would mean he was ten years old.

I'm not an expert on Paisley. Far from it. But before he left at 10, he should have looked across the fields and he'd have spotted this.
WTF is that?

It's a huge car factory that was there for many years.



A good write up?
Nah. A bias write up.

She's the youngest MP. Give her some due, regardless of her politics. She's far from the bottom of the pit in that place!

Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 15th July 20:13

[r11co]

dandarez said:

She's the youngest MP. Give her some due, regardless of her politics. She's far from the bottom of the pit in that place!

She's a hypocrite and her position is based on a lie. Douglas Alexander never supported £30bn austerity cuts as Ms. Black and her supporters alleged during the General Election campaign. She branded left-wing politicians 'Red Tories' just so that she could steal their clothes and salary.



BTW - Regarding the Chrysler plant - workers sleeping on the nightshift and stealing entire cars off the production line caused that place to go down, not Thatcher (oh, and the cars were ste rustbuckets).

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 15th July 20:17

[dandarez]

r11co said:

dandarez said:

She's the youngest MP. Give her some due, regardless of her politics. She's far from the bottom of the pit in that place!

stuff plus

BTW - Regarding the Chrysler plant - workers sleeping on the nightshift and stealing entire cars off the production line caused that place to go down, not Thatcher (oh, and the cars were ste rustbuckets).

what a st (stupid) response!

Who said Thatcher ended the plant? I didn't.

Stealing 'entire' cars off the line? 'Entire' cars, eh? Not half of one then?

I know apprentices wrecked some of the prototypes when testing them (course, it was Rootes then, not Chrysler)

ste rust buckets?
Tell me which car wasn't at that time? Seriously, I'd like to know.

[r11co]

dandarez said:

Stealing 'entire' cars off the line? 'Entire' cars, eh? Not half of one then?

Entire as opposed to the odd nut or bolt or bodyshell - y'know, the parts they make them up from, eejit.

dandarez said:

ste rust buckets?
Tell me which car wasn't at that time? Seriously, I'd like to know.

See that picture you posted earlier. I can remember seeing the same vista with my own eyes, with extra vast tarmac'd areas full of cars that stood for years because no-one wanted to buy them because they were expensive, outdated and unreliable. There's no-one on this site needs a history lesson about the British car industry. The car plant at Linwood was a stupid idea from day one.

I know people who spent their shifts making jewellery from Georgian two shilling coins (because they had a high silver content) to sell for pin money instead of actually doing quality control checks on the cars. Making money on the side using company tools and time is a criminal offence these days (probably was then too).

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 15th July 21:19

[NoNeed]

dandarez said:

A good write up?
Nah. A bias write up.

She's the youngest MP. Give her some due, regardless of her politics. She's far from the bottom of the pit in that place!

Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 15th July 20:13

A good write up yes and I give her credit for the excellent delivery and more remarkable as it was her first time.

Its content was factually inaccurate, its content was deliberately provocative/divisive and I disagree with much of it.

[eccles]

r11co said:

Making money on the side using company tools and time is a criminal offence these days (probably was then too).

Really?

[technodup]

dandarez said:

I'm not an expert on Paisley. Far from it. But before he left at 10, he should have looked across the fields and he'd have spotted this.
WTF is that?

It's a huge car factory that was there for many years.

Which is/was in Linwood, which is not in her constituency.

I moved out of Paisley or I'd have the mutant representing me. Mind you I now have some other SNP dreck instead so not sure it makes any difference.

I'll give her her due (a first and last), there's not many 20 year olds who could stand in the HoP and give anything resembling a coherent speech. Even if it was virtually empty bar her own lot.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Just a general question / observation, but it `seems' like the SNP are taking up a lot of talk time in Westminster on various subjects. Is the time that each party gets to yap about their view over a certain issue, time monitored, or limited by parliamentary rules?
Given that with their total of 56 seats, they know they cannot out vote the government, but could they, by yapping away on various matters (seemingly getting `air time ' out of all proportion to their numbers) be carrying out their stated aim to shake up and disrupt the goings on in the Westminster parliament?

[glazbagun]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Just a general question / observation, but it `seems' like the SNP are taking up a lot of talk time in Westminster on various subjects. Is the time that each party gets to yap about their view over a certain issue, time monitored, or limited by parliamentary rules?
Given that with their total of 56 seats, they know they cannot out vote the government, but could they, by yapping away on various matters (seemingly getting `air time ' out of all proportion to their numbers) be carrying out their stated aim to shake up and disrupt the goings on in the Westminster parliament?

Can't bear to watch Westminster much these days, but from the Mhairi Black speech, it looks like the SNP were in the majority in that debating chamber. Actually showing up for a debate and debating it/proffering your party/constituent's opinion is what parliamentary debates are for. It wouldn't surprise me that the shiny new SNP MP's are more enthusiastic about showing up in Westminster than those that have been doing the same thing for the last fifteen years. It should be commended IMO.

As for disrupting day to day workings, I can't see it happening too often. The term you're thinking of is Filibustering, which sometimes happens spectacularly in the States where a guy will stand up & talk for hours to eat up a debates time. It happens in Westminster too, but you wouldn't need 50 MP's to do it. 5 would probably do the trick, Lib Dems, Tories, Labour and the SNP have all done it at some point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster#United_Ki...

[williamp]

There was a really interesting programme about parliament z few onths ack. The fillebustering is aknown trick. One MP admitted he had prepaired a speech which was 24 hours long!

[Bluebarge]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Just a general question / observation, but it `seems' like the SNP are taking up a lot of talk time in Westminster on various subjects. Is the time that each party gets to yap about their view over a certain issue, time monitored, or limited by parliamentary rules?
Given that with their total of 56 seats, they know they cannot out vote the government, but could they, by yapping away on various matters (seemingly getting `air time ' out of all proportion to their numbers) be carrying out their stated aim to shake up and disrupt the goings on in the Westminster parliament?

Sigh. It's the Opposition's job to scrutinise and debate legislation. The Speaker is there to ensure everyone gets a fair crack of the whip. Honestly, the tendency of some posters to want to suppress views they don't agree with is deeply depressing. This is a democracy, people, not North Korea.

[Andy Zarse]

dandarez said:

r11co said:

dandarez said:

She's the youngest MP. Give her some due, regardless of her politics. She's far from the bottom of the pit in that place!

stuff plus

BTW - Regarding the Chrysler plant - workers sleeping on the nightshift and stealing entire cars off the production line caused that place to go down, not Thatcher (oh, and the cars were ste rustbuckets).

what a st (stupid) response!

Who said Thatcher ended the plant? I didn't.

Stealing 'entire' cars off the line? 'Entire' cars, eh? Not half of one then?

I know apprentices wrecked some of the prototypes when testing them (course, it was Rootes then, not Chrysler)

ste rust buckets?
Tell me which car wasn't at that time? Seriously, I'd like to know.

This is PistonHeads. There's always someone who knows more than you about a particular automotive subject, and, speaking as a long time Commer van owner, on the subject of the Rootes Group I am your nemesis!

Linwood was without any question easily the worst car plant in the UK. The strike-prone, idle, slipshod over-paid workforce produced badly designed unreliable vehicular rubbish which the public had little desire to purchase. That was the reality, and it explains why a supposedly state of the art car plant lasted less than twenty years.

Then of course we get the Scottish "folk law" perspective, and yes you guessed it, the closure of Linwood was all evil Thatcher's fault...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ho...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ho...

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Just a general question / observation, but it `seems' like the SNP are taking up a lot of talk time in Westminster on various subjects. Is the time that each party gets to yap about their view over a certain issue, time monitored, or limited by parliamentary rules?
Given that with their total of 56 seats, they know they cannot out vote the government, but could they, by yapping away on various matters (seemingly getting `air time ' out of all proportion to their numbers) be carrying out their stated aim to shake up and disrupt the goings on in the Westminster parliament?

So the room must listen to me,

Filibuster vigilantly,

My name is Mharai Black,

And I work for the SNP!

(C)-ish They Might Be Giants

[r11co]

Andy Zarse said:

Then of course we get the Scottish folklore perspective, and yes you guessed it, the closure of Linwood was all evil Thatcher's fault...

...and to add to the 'stupidity and gullibility' of the electorate in Paisley and Renfrewshire South (to paraphrase Mhairi Black, although in her opinion it is only the section of the electorate that do not agree with independence who are stupid and gullible) there are people I spoke to who believed that as a 'Red Tory' (sic) Douglas Alexander had a hand in the closure of the factory, despite the fact that he was at school at the time*.

• He even had to put that fact in his later election leaflets to try and counter the historical inexactitude being spread by grass roots SNP supporters.

[Andy Zarse]

r11co said:

Andy Zarse said:

Then of course we get the Scottish folklore perspective, and yes you guessed it, the closure of Linwood was all evil Thatcher's fault...

...and to add to the 'stupidity and gullibility' of the electorate in Paisley and Renfrewshire South (to paraphrase Mhairi Black, although in her opinion it is only the section of the electorate that do not agree with independence who are stupid and gullible) there are people I spoke to who believed that as a 'Red Tory' (sic) Douglas Alexander had a hand in the closure of the factory, despite the fact that he was at school at the time*.

• He even had to put that fact in his later election leaflets to try and counter the historical inexactitude being spread by grass roots SNP supporters.

I can well believe it... Historical revisionism knows no bounds. Thatcher also destroyed the British motorcycle industry by failing to back Tony Benn's insane Triumph workers coop. (Apart from writing off all its millions of pounds of debts owed against Govt loans).

[Pan Pan Pan]

Bluebarge said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Just a general question / observation, but it `seems' like the SNP are taking up a lot of talk time in Westminster on various subjects. Is the time that each party gets to yap about their view over a certain issue, time monitored, or limited by parliamentary rules?
Given that with their total of 56 seats, they know they cannot out vote the government, but could they, by yapping away on various matters (seemingly getting `air time ' out of all proportion to their numbers) be carrying out their stated aim to shake up and disrupt the goings on in the Westminster parliament?

Sigh. It's the Opposition's job to scrutinise and debate legislation. The Speaker is there to ensure everyone gets a fair crack of the whip. Honestly, the tendency of some posters to want to suppress views they don't agree with is deeply depressing. This is a democracy, people, not North Korea.

Sigh. UKIP got 12.5% of the national vote, whilst the SNP got only 4.7%, so if the speaker was doing the job properly, to give everyone a `fair crack of the whip' we would be hearing a lot more from UKIP MP`s. (at least twice as much from UKIP speakers in the house, than we are doing from the SNP speakers)
Classic case of the SNP tail `trying' to wag the dog, hopefully it will be put out of the Westminster back door for the noisy nuisance that it is making of itself, if it keeps this undemocratic nonsense up.