Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Does any Scottish person not feel utterly embarrassed that SNP are trying to take money away from the poor and needy in rUK strictly for their benefit.
The SNP have realised that they've opened a can of worms with the 'extra powers' they have now attained for the Scottish Parliament. Their stance now is a combination of (incompetent) opening bargaining position, stalling tactics in advance of an election, grievance mongering and playing to their thick, greedy and economically ignorant support base who believe every lie the SNP peddles (see blog post above).
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 10th February 12:20
r11co said:
Welshbeef said:
Does any Scottish person not feel utterly embarrassed that SNP are trying to take money away from the poor and needy in rUK strictly for their benefit.
The SNP have realised that they've opened a can of worms with the 'extra powers' they have now attained for the Scottish Parliament. Their stance now is a combination of (incompetent) opening bargaining position, stalling tactics in advance of an election, grievance mongering and playing to their thick, greedy and economically ignorant support base who believe every lie the SNP peddles (see blog post above).
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 10th February 12:20
That is a difficult question to answer. Easy is we all need more but the pot size is fixed so it's an argument about % split.
Realistically in Wales there are relatively few industries but high public sector jobs whereas Scotland in comparison has vastly more commerce and a much higher paid workforce.
Can of worms
A.J.M said:
r11co said:
andymadmak said:
Cameron has just handed Angus Robertson his arse during PMQs! 
The SNats will spin it as a victory, or Westminster bullying.Angus does have a habit of making an arse of himself when he speaks though.
BBC website said:
Cameron challenges SNP to 'get rid of this grievance agenda'
Posted at
12:25
The SNP's Angus Robertson asked David Cameron if the Treasury would deliver a fiscal deal that was fair to Scotland and the UK.
The PM said he was committed to devolution and to the Scotland Bill. "There's on-going negotiations to reach a fair settlement... No one is keener on agreement than me," he said
He added that he wanted the SNP to make decisions on their taxes and he wanted to "get rid of this grievance agenda".
The exchange was far better than this summary makes out. After Cameron had (so politely) squashed him Robertson looked like he'd just done a really smelly fart under his own nose. Basically, Robertson tried to push the victim/fairness/broken promises/Smith Commission button and Cameron elegantly reminded him that fairness cuts both ways, and that nobody was more keen than he (Cameron) to get a fair (to all) deal agreed so that the SNP Government in Scotland can finally be held to account over precisely who's taxes they were going to put up! Posted at
12:25
The SNP's Angus Robertson asked David Cameron if the Treasury would deliver a fiscal deal that was fair to Scotland and the UK.
The PM said he was committed to devolution and to the Scotland Bill. "There's on-going negotiations to reach a fair settlement... No one is keener on agreement than me," he said
He added that he wanted the SNP to make decisions on their taxes and he wanted to "get rid of this grievance agenda".
It's worth finding on iPlayer for the 30 odd seconds it took for Cameron to so comprehensively pop the Robertson bubble.
Edited by andymadmak on Wednesday 10th February 14:48
Edited by andymadmak on Wednesday 10th February 14:49
From the uncorrected Hansard:
Angus Robertson said:
We on the SNP Benches join in the condolences expressed by the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition in relation to Harry Harpham, and we pass on our best wishes to his family at this sad and difficult time.
The Prime Minister made a vow, and his party signed an agreement, that there would be no detriment to Scotland with new devolution arrangements. Why is the UK Treasury proposing plans that may be detrimental to Scotland to the tune of £3 billion?
The Prime Minister made a vow, and his party signed an agreement, that there would be no detriment to Scotland with new devolution arrangements. Why is the UK Treasury proposing plans that may be detrimental to Scotland to the tune of £3 billion?
The Prime Minister said:
We accept the Smith principles of “no detriment”. There are two principles: first, no detriment to Scotland, quite rightly, at the time when the transfer is made in terms of Scotland having these new tax-raising powers; and then, no detriment to Scottish taxpayers, but also to the rest of the United Kingdom taxpayers, whom we have to bear in mind as we take into account this very important negotiation.
I have had good conversations with the First Minister, and negotiations are under way. I want us successfully to complete this very important piece of devolution in a fair and reasonable way, and these negotiations should continue. But let me remind the right hon. Gentleman that if we had had full fiscal devolution—with oil revenues having collapsed by 94%—the right hon. Gentleman and his party would be just weeks away from a financial calamity for Scotland.
I have had good conversations with the First Minister, and negotiations are under way. I want us successfully to complete this very important piece of devolution in a fair and reasonable way, and these negotiations should continue. But let me remind the right hon. Gentleman that if we had had full fiscal devolution—with oil revenues having collapsed by 94%—the right hon. Gentleman and his party would be just weeks away from a financial calamity for Scotland.
Angus Robertson said:
In the context of the referendums, whether in Scotland or across the UK on EU membership, do not voters have a right to know that what is promised by the UK Government can be trusted and will be delivered in full? Will the Prime Minister tell the Treasury that time is running out on delivering a fair fiscal framework, and that it must agree a deal that is both fair to the people of Scotland and fair to the rest of the United Kingdom?
The Prime Minister said:
I can tell the right hon. Gentleman everything that has been committed to by this Government will be delivered. We committed to this huge act of devolution to Scotland, and we have delivered it—we committed to the Scotland Bill, and we are well on the way to delivering it—with all the things we said we would, including those vital Smith principles.
There is an ongoing negotiation to reach a fair settlement, and I would say to the Scottish First Minister and the Scottish Finance Minister that they have to recognise there must be fairness across the rest of the United Kingdom too. But with good will, I can tell you that no one is keener on agreement than me. I want the Scottish National party, here and in Holyrood, to have to start making decisions—which taxes are you going to raise, what are you going to do with benefits? I want to get rid of, frankly, this grievance agenda and let you get on with a governing agenda, and then we can see what you are made of.
There is an ongoing negotiation to reach a fair settlement, and I would say to the Scottish First Minister and the Scottish Finance Minister that they have to recognise there must be fairness across the rest of the United Kingdom too. But with good will, I can tell you that no one is keener on agreement than me. I want the Scottish National party, here and in Holyrood, to have to start making decisions—which taxes are you going to raise, what are you going to do with benefits? I want to get rid of, frankly, this grievance agenda and let you get on with a governing agenda, and then we can see what you are made of.
Oh dear God, here we go...
http://news.stv.tv/politics/1342223-stephen-daisle...
...Puttin' out fire with gasoline.
I said this before THE referendum and I'll say it again...
...If I was the PM I'd love to just cut the strings and let Scotland go it alone. I'm sure there're more worthy subjects to concern oneself with rather than trying to appease a bunch of arrogant noisy a
holes that only say they can do a better job but have yet to prove it.
http://news.stv.tv/politics/1342223-stephen-daisle...
...Puttin' out fire with gasoline.
I said this before THE referendum and I'll say it again...
...If I was the PM I'd love to just cut the strings and let Scotland go it alone. I'm sure there're more worthy subjects to concern oneself with rather than trying to appease a bunch of arrogant noisy a
holes that only say they can do a better job but have yet to prove it.Edited by Big Rod on Wednesday 10th February 23:16
Troubleatmill said:
For a section of the country with such a small proportion of the population, they are getting far more than their fair share of attention.
I fking hate being Scottish these days!I used to love it but now I wish I'd been born somewhere else. I'm embarrassed by the Saltire and that rampant cat thing. I actually cringe at certain shades of blue.
I'm actually hoping the SNPricks call another referendum, (I'm even sick of that word!), so I've a case to get the f
k out of here because I really don't want to be subject to any more 'hard done by', 'chip on shoulder', paranoid 'patriots' telling me everything's everyone else's fault.It's f
king sickening! voyds9 said:
I can see some YeSNP supporters voting for BREXIT to try to trigger another Scottish referendum
I could see that happening.AstonZagato said:
That wouldn't be very smart - we'll see the voting by region. So if Scotland votes for Brexit, the SNP won't have an argument for another Indy Ref.
Since when has the SNP or Scottish nationalism been 'smart'?Big Rod said:
Oh dear God, here we go...
http://news.stv.tv/politics/1342223-stephen-daisle...
...Puttin' out fire with gasoline.
I said this before THE referendum and I'll say it again...
...If I was the PM I'd love to just cut the strings and let Scotland go it alone. I'm sure there're more worthy subjects to concern oneself with rather than trying to appease a bunch of arrogant noisy aholes that only say they can do a better job but have yet to prove it.
But the problem Scotland and the YeSNP voters is if there is Brexit there is no physical way Scotlaand could get back into the EU. It fails the financial requirements by a vast gulf making the prospect of debt to GDP similar to Greece and what would be a yearly defecit upwards of 20%. http://news.stv.tv/politics/1342223-stephen-daisle...
...Puttin' out fire with gasoline.
I said this before THE referendum and I'll say it again...
...If I was the PM I'd love to just cut the strings and let Scotland go it alone. I'm sure there're more worthy subjects to concern oneself with rather than trying to appease a bunch of arrogant noisy a
holes that only say they can do a better job but have yet to prove it.Edited by Big Rod on Wednesday 10th February 23:16
So unless the EU are now going to ignore the joining requirements incl at least 2 years of running your own stable currency I simply don't know how they can get in. Maybe in 20 years time or longer it might be possible
Big Rod said:
I wouldn't trust a poll commissioned by STV, the same station that turned Hogmanay into a party-political broadcast for the SNP featuring the FM, her mother and a sycophantic 'actress'.Big Rod said:
Troubleatmill said:
For a section of the country with such a small proportion of the population, they are getting far more than their fair share of attention.
I fking hate being Scottish these days!I used to love it but now I wish I'd been born somewhere else. I'm embarrassed by the Saltire and that rampant cat thing. I actually cringe at certain shades of blue.
I'm actually hoping the SNPricks call another referendum, (I'm even sick of that word!), so I've a case to get the f
k out of here because I really don't want to be subject to any more 'hard done by', 'chip on shoulder', paranoid 'patriots' telling me everything's everyone else's fault.It's f
king sickening! Watching Scotland lose to England at the weekend didn't bug me half as much as it used to, afterwards part of me was glad we lost, just so we didn't need to hear any bleating from the mong element spouting the "auld enemy" claptrap.
It is a sad state of affairs, but I am in a similar boat to you now - often embarrassed to be Scottish and not proud of it - it will take many years to undo the damage caused by the SNP and the Yes campaign.
Parsnip said:
Same, I see a Scotland flag now and I immediatley jump to thinking of the YESNP.
Watching Scotland lose to England at the weekend didn't bug me half as much as it used to, afterwards part of me was glad we lost, just so we didn't need to hear any bleating from the mong element spouting the "auld enemy" claptrap.
It is a sad state of affairs, but I am in a similar boat to you now - often embarrassed to be Scottish and not proud of it - it will take many years to undo the damage caused by the SNP and the Yes campaign.
The SNP have failed their vow to reunite the country irrespective of the vote outcome. Watching Scotland lose to England at the weekend didn't bug me half as much as it used to, afterwards part of me was glad we lost, just so we didn't need to hear any bleating from the mong element spouting the "auld enemy" claptrap.
It is a sad state of affairs, but I am in a similar boat to you now - often embarrassed to be Scottish and not proud of it - it will take many years to undo the damage caused by the SNP and the Yes campaign.
Parsnip said:
Big Rod said:
Troubleatmill said:
For a section of the country with such a small proportion of the population, they are getting far more than their fair share of attention.
I fking hate being Scottish these days!I used to love it but now I wish I'd been born somewhere else. I'm embarrassed by the Saltire and that rampant cat thing. I actually cringe at certain shades of blue.
I'm actually hoping the SNPricks call another referendum, (I'm even sick of that word!), so I've a case to get the f
k out of here because I really don't want to be subject to any more 'hard done by', 'chip on shoulder', paranoid 'patriots' telling me everything's everyone else's fault.It's f
king sickening! Watching Scotland lose to England at the weekend didn't bug me half as much as it used to, afterwards part of me was glad we lost, just so we didn't need to hear any bleating from the mong element spouting the "auld enemy" claptrap.
It is a sad state of affairs, but I am in a similar boat to you now - often embarrassed to be Scottish and not proud of it - it will take many years to undo the damage caused by the SNP and the Yes campaign.
But, hey, whilst many from the rUK are already severing business and social ties with Scotland ( there is only so much abuse we can take, even from "family") I would like to say that you guys, and indeed any other Scottish person who so desires, is more than welcome to come and live in rUK, any time. RUK is proud of the Scottish part of its heritage, just as kuch as it is of the Welsh, the Norns and the various bits that make up the English! Your country may be lost to you, but your wider family isn't for those of you who wish to stay a part of it.
Come down, we'll buy you a wee dram..
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