Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
Edinburger said:
Put yourself in Ms Sturgeon's shoes: the SNP have to ask for a referendum now.
Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
I'm not sure how they gain the confidence that the result would be any different this time though.
They knew a referendum was coming, you takes yer chances etc. Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
I'm not sure how they gain the confidence that the result would be any different this time though.
It's not what 48% of voters in the UK wanted either, some are trying for a second referendum which is just as ridiculous as a second independence referendum.
Edinburger said:
Put yourself in Ms Sturgeon's shoes: the SNP have to ask for a referendum now.
Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
I'm not sure how they gain the confidence that the result would be any different this time though.
My impression is that, were they able to hold a referendum today, independence would be won - such is the sense of shock and 'injustice' of Brexit.Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
I'm not sure how they gain the confidence that the result would be any different this time though.
By the time a referendum can actually be held, however, I fully expect that the economic ramifications of being a small country saddled with debt within the EU would have time to sink in - meaning a further defeat for the SNP is inevitable.
Sturgeon realises this, however - which is why, for all the second referendum noises she is making, she won't actually have one until she can be certain of winning.
Which could well be never.
Edited by Anglade on Saturday 25th June 13:39
Edinburger said:
Put yourself in Ms Sturgeon's shoes: the SNP have to ask for a referendum now.
Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
I'm not sure how they gain the confidence that the result would be any different this time though.
I quite understand why she has to dangle it but, as time goes on, the questions as to how independence would work in practice will come.Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
I'm not sure how they gain the confidence that the result would be any different this time though.
The harsh reality is that the UK's exit from the EU makes Scottish Independence much harder in practice.
They never answered the difficult questions last time and a whole bunch of extra difficult ones have just been added. They're not being asked at the moment but will be in time and would be in a campaign.
So, take all the hard questions last time, add the EU dimension and the extra debt and oil price and it looks more difficult to win now than in 2014.
Sturgeon knows this. Salmond would no doubt go headlong into another referendum convinced he can bluff his way through with a chuckle and a smile but it didn't work last time and wouldn't work this time. Sturgeon is 10x smarter in my opinion and would prefer to use the threat as leverage rather than have her bluff called and loose another referendum.
The reality is that the EU is no higher up Scottish voters list of priorities that anywhere else in the UK and another campaign would come down to exactly the same arguments as before with the EU not really getting much of a mention.
I also suspect Ruth Davidson would be a more effective "in" leader than Darling ever was.
Edinburger said:
Put yourself in Ms Sturgeon's shoes: the SNP have to ask for a referendum now.
Why's she not asking then?Edinburger said:
Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
b
ks. They voted to remain part of the UK. That's it. The question was quite simple, even for a Yesser.We then voted AS THE UK to exit the EU. Them's the breaks.
She needs to shut her manky wee fish mouth and let things run their course re the EU. She would be well advised to use the time to resolve some of the questions which went unanswered last time, e.g. EU membership process, the Spanish resistance, the currency, the economy re the oil price and now, how a border with a (truly) independent UK (not her out of one union into another 'independent') would work.
For all I get enthusiastic about politics we (in Scotland in particular) need a break from constant campaigning and voting. Stability is required, far more than neverendum pish.
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
Put yourself in Ms Sturgeon's shoes: the SNP have to ask for a referendum now.
Why's she not asking then?Edinburger said:
Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
bks. They voted to remain part of the UK. That's it. The question was quite simple, even for a Yesser.We then voted AS THE UK to exit the EU. Them's the breaks.
She needs to shut her manky wee fish mouth and let things run their course re the EU. She would be well advised to use the time to resolve some of the questions which went unanswered last time, e.g. EU membership process, the Spanish resistance, the currency, the economy re the oil price and now, how a border with a (truly) independent UK (not her out of one union into another 'independent') would work.
For all I get
confused_buyer said:
Massive amount of non-commital waffle coming from Sturgeon right now.
Doesn't she talk ste.No, Scotland didn't vote for Brexit, but neither did parts of England - does that mean they too have an open-ended carte blanche right to call for any indy-ref when they want?
No it doesn't. The UK voted as the UK, end of. She needs to wind her neck in.
Edinburger said:
Put yourself in Ms Sturgeon's shoes: the SNP have to ask for a referendum now.
Brexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
I'm not sure how they gain the confidence that the result would be any different this time though.
BULLsBrexit is a fundamental change to what some voters in the Scottish referendum voted to remain part of.
I'm not sure how they gain the confidence that the result would be any different this time though.
t!See the letters the Scottish Govt wrote to Vivian Redding - and her responses.
eg. If Scotland won independence - it would be out of the EU. End of.
You can find the letters on the Scottish Govt's own website.
So yes - it was true - that the only chance the Scots had of being in the EU - was to vote to stay in the UK.
She is just fannying around making noise. ( Remember Salmond's lies.... )
Cobnapint said:
Doesn't she talk ste.
No, Scotland didn't vote for Brexit, but neither did parts of England - does that mean they too have an open-ended carte blanche right to call for any indy-ref when they want?
No it doesn't. The UK voted as the UK, end of. She needs to wind her neck in.
Not saying that it's grounds for a second indyref, but you do actually have to recognise the significance of one of the devolved parts of the UK voting unanimously to remain, as opposed to some counties/regions within one country.te.No, Scotland didn't vote for Brexit, but neither did parts of England - does that mean they too have an open-ended carte blanche right to call for any indy-ref when they want?
No it doesn't. The UK voted as the UK, end of. She needs to wind her neck in.
stevensdrs said:
Patrick Bateman said:
When having to join the euro and the Eurozone is on the table, will so many be keen for joining?
I for one will not be keen to swap one oppressive master for another. I'm sure a lot of previous yes voters will be of the same mind.Taffer said:
Not saying that it's grounds for a second indyref, but you do actually have to recognise the significance of one of the devolved parts of the UK voting unanimously to remain, as opposed to some counties/regions within one country.
Why? The referendum was whether to stay in the UK or not; it had nothing to do with the EU, which we all knew was coming anyway.Why would you leave 'being controlled by Westminster' to 'being controlled by Brussels'? At least you have some say in who gets into Westminster. I can't see any logic in it.
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