Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

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technodup

7,576 posts

129 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Troubleatmill said:
Urm...
Over 40,000 people from the Vatican have signed the petition. Total Population is around 450.
Over 20,000 people from North Korea have signed the petition.


Now... a really sharp guy like you.... do you think it is legit - or arse gravy?

And one guy on Reddit - has admitted to hacking the site- and keeps adding signatories.
IIRC - he provided some proof this morning.

IIRC2 - Someone posted up it was closer to 360,000 people signed the petition without the aid of spam bots.
Not to mention the guy who started it is an English Democrat who intended it to be used the other way around, if remain had won.

These petitions are just a manifestation of the stupidity of the online generation. We had a vote, an actual vote. Recorded, registered, individually, in private, under the auspices of the Electoral Commission. Why would a poxy online petition have any weight whatsoever?

I'm sure there was one after the Tories got in as well, there were certainly street protests. Ignored. As this will rightly be.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
technodup said:
dinburger's been discredited on here more than anyone else. He doesn't know what he thinks.
Pardon?!?!?!?!?!?!

Pot and kettle springs to mind...

confusedmadlaugh


Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
DocJock said:
A referendum DID settle it.

Scotland voted to stay as part of the entity which just voted to leave the EU.
Settled? The 3,311,965 people who have signed the petition think otherwise! That's the petition for the Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

Too close to be decisive? Not sure how I feel about that.
Urm...
Over 40,000 people from the Vatican have signed the petition. Total Population is around 450.
Over 20,000 people from North Korea have signed the petition.


Now... a really sharp guy like you.... do you think it is legit - or arse gravy?

And one guy on Reddit - has admitted to hacking the site- and keeps adding signatories.
IIRC - he provided some proof this morning.

IIRC2 - Someone posted up it was closer to 360,000 people signed the petition without the aid of spam bots.
laughlaughlaugh

I didn't know that! laugh

confused_buyer

6,610 posts

180 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Settled? The 3,311,965 people who have signed the petition think otherwise! That's the petition for the Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

Too close to be decisive? Not sure how I feel about that.
Don't you think though that if Scotland voted for Independence on a Thursday by 52/48 by Friday after everyone sobered up there wouldn't also be a bit of a "oh my god - what have we done" when the reality of the bankruptcy sets in?

Do you think the 60/75 turnout rule should be applied to any potential Indy ref?

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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confused_buyer said:
Do you think the 60/75 turnout rule should be applied to any potential Indy ref?
Regardless of your politics.... it should be a binary referendum - and the majority decides.


If you go 60 or 75% - nothing will ever ever change.
So it is unfair.


The country voted. The result was what it was. We go in that direction - and make the very best of it.

glazbagun

14,259 posts

196 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
davepoth said:
glazbagun said:
davepoth said:
glazbagun said:
Wait, there someone who is leading? Who?
The British public.
The public? Are you serious? The public are eating each other.
Yes, the public. The vote caught everyone - the "experts", the government, the markets, the pollsters, the bookies, the EU - on the hop, and they're desperately trying to catch up, to understand how and why they were so wrong about what the country was thinking.
That doesn't sound much like leadership so much as throwing a grenade at the establishment and asking them to catch it.

Leithen

10,800 posts

266 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
davepoth said:
glazbagun said:
davepoth said:
glazbagun said:
Wait, there someone who is leading? Who?
The British public.
The public? Are you serious? The public are eating each other.
Yes, the public. The vote caught everyone - the "experts", the government, the markets, the pollsters, the bookies, the EU - on the hop, and they're desperately trying to catch up, to understand how and why they were so wrong about what the country was thinking.
That doesn't sound much like leadership so much as throwing a grenade at the establishment and asking them to catch it.
They tried, dropped it and now haven't a clue whether to try and pick it up again, kick it, jump on it or run away.

It's quite entertaining to watch in a fatalistic way.

eharding

13,600 posts

283 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Leithen said:
glazbagun said:
davepoth said:
glazbagun said:
davepoth said:
glazbagun said:
Wait, there someone who is leading? Who?
The British public.
The public? Are you serious? The public are eating each other.
Yes, the public. The vote caught everyone - the "experts", the government, the markets, the pollsters, the bookies, the EU - on the hop, and they're desperately trying to catch up, to understand how and why they were so wrong about what the country was thinking.
That doesn't sound much like leadership so much as throwing a grenade at the establishment and asking them to catch it.
They tried, dropped it and now haven't a clue whether to try and pick it up again, kick it, jump on it or run away.
I think a few of them have already realised the grenade throwers didn't have the foresight to actually remove the pin before throwing it - and now they're demanding that someone should do it for them.

Curiously enough, no-one in a position to do so is showing much inclination....

Garvin

5,157 posts

176 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
gadgetmac said:
Garvin said:
Nobody, but nobody, forced Scotland to remain in a union with rUK. Scotland were given a referendum and voted to stay in the union in the full knowledge that there would be a referendum on that union's membership of the EU.
Did the whole of fluffniks post simply fly over your head?
Not at all. Only the most stupid would believe anyone who supposedly guarantees the result of a referendum yet to be held. To then moan about it when that referendum does not provide the apparently guaranteed outcome compounds that stupidity to a level associated with morons.

NoddyonNitrous

2,103 posts

231 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Sturgeon said:
those who campaigned for leave have no plan
Oh the irony and blindness

fluffnik

20,156 posts

226 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
Garvin said:
gadgetmac said:
Did the whole of fluffniks post simply fly over your head?
Not at all. Only the most stupid would believe anyone who supposedly guarantees the result of a referendum yet to be held. To then moan about it when that referendum does not provide the apparently guaranteed outcome compounds that stupidity to a level associated with morons.
No EU referendum had been announced when "No" said that only a vote for them would keep Scotland in the EU.

I know one Polish person who only voted "No" because she feared her home, Edinburgh, would be torn out of the EU, I doubt she was alone.

tenfour

26,140 posts

213 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
gadgetmac said:
Yes, because she hasn't been chasing independence all of her political career, just this last few days.

Whether you agree with her politics or not she's a strong leader with determination and a plan. But that the rest of the UK could have the same, we'll have to suffer the bumbling of either Boris or Corbyn.
Entirely subjective.

Speaking assertively off a set of notes does not automatically make for a strong leader. Strong leadership is about integrity, which, measured objectively, is something she is found lacking in. And as for a plan... Well, if her plan is simply appease the feckless masses with notions of freedom, then she's undoubtedly been effective at that; albeit simply hanging onto the coat tails of Salmond (a man I respected, even if I didn't agree with him).

She is determined though.


Edited by tenfour on Monday 27th June 06:05

tenfour

26,140 posts

213 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
gadgetmac said:
technodup said:
ou remember we had a referendum just 20 months ago? Where we made OUR choice?

The choice that was for a generation?

I'm fking sick of the SNP, Sturgeon, Salmond and their rag tag bunch of deluded fknugget supporters. No means no. Go away, take some time, have a think and come back to us in a decade. Until then fk off.
Well Edinburger a couple of pages back plus others on here and members of my family who all voted to remain part of the UK disagree with you. Only a referendum can settle it biggrin
Disagree all you want. The Scottish majority (i.e. you and your family) voted to stay in the UK, which, for the hard of thinking, means that the Scottish people voted to stay British. Hence, when the British people (Scotland, England, Wales & Nornireland) vote to leave in a subsequent EU referendum (which incidentally, was also 'on the table' when IndyRef was called), that vote is the democratic consideration of ALL the UK.

I'm embarrassed that so many of my fellow Scots fail to consider this. YOU voted to STAY in the UK, which meant that any decision taken by Westminster hence, is binding on Scotland too. This is what the Scots voted for on 18 September 2014. If you didn't comprehend that, then you should have voted YES in the IndyRef.

And for the Nicola Krankie sympathisers out there, I am intrigued by the logic of leaving one nation of four countries (a nation that conquered the modern world, incidentally), and joining another collective of 27 countries with - and here's the funny bit - EVEN LESS AUTONOMY THAN YOU WOULD HAVE IN THE UK!!! What these fools fail to realise is that Scotland has a st-sight more hope of having its needs and wants considered by being part of the UK than it does being part of a much more diluted collective of 27 nations with very little common ground between them. And, it will pay through the nose for the privilege.

fk me, you couldn't make it up!






tenfour

26,140 posts

213 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
fluffnik said:
No EU referendum had been announced when "No" said that only a vote for them would keep Scotland in the EU.

I know one Polish person who only voted "No" because she feared her home, Edinburgh, would be torn out of the EU, I doubt she was alone.
"Announced", no. But to quote the great Nicola Wallace, the EU referendum was at that time most definitely, [altogether now!] "ON THE TABLE".

tenfour

26,140 posts

213 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
tenfour said:
Had some Pizza with our Italian neighbours last night. Like many, they were shocked that we voted to leave and also a little envious that, no matter what, they will never have the option to do the same.

I'm a Scottish expat, living in a largely European community in the Middle East. The general consensus so far is that Merkel and friends ought to be really rather worried indeed: Holland, Denmark and possibly even France will start making noises about a referendum soon.

Meanwhile, north of the border, Nicola bd Krankie appears to be the only politician who wants to join Europe idea
Well she would, wouldn't she - loads of EU subsidies for infrastructure improvements in borderline bankrupt states! But at least the rest of the UK wouldn't be paying for them any more! Good riddance!

Why don't the rest of the UK get a vote on whether we want to maintain a union to subsidise the ungrateful Sturgeonists, who represent less than 10% of the UK electorate? Or would that be more democratic than our political masters are comfortable with (mind you most of them are out of work just now)!

Next referendum please - Scotland out!
Well, with the way my fellow countrymen are behaving right now, I think that would be quite justifiable. Very sorry state of affairs.

My only hope is that Holyrood's opposition manages to knock some sense into these Braveheart fantasists.

technodup

7,576 posts

129 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
tenfour said:
My only hope is that Holyrood's opposition manages to knock some sense into these Braveheart fantasists.
The good thing is, if there is another vote, Ruth Davidson would be the obvious leader of the No campaign (although I'd much prefer a more neutral pair of options this time).

She's considerably stronger than anyone Labour has mustered in recent years.

Jockman

17,912 posts

159 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
technodup said:
he good thing is, if there is another vote, Ruth Davidson would be the obvious leader of the No campaign (although I'd much prefer a more neutral pair of options this time).

She's considerably stronger than anyone Labour has mustered in recent years.
Agreed.

paulrockliffe

15,639 posts

226 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
I rather remember being told by Alex Salmond that the only way for Scotland to guarantee it's future in the EU was to vote to leave the UK.

Then the people rejected that, happy to be guided by the UK as a whole.

fluffnik

20,156 posts

226 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
I rather remember being told by Alex Salmond that the only way for Scotland to guarantee it's future in the EU was to vote to leave the UK.

Then the people rejected that, happy to be guided by the UK as a whole.
...and it turns out he was right!

There is more support for ongoing EU membership (62%) than the continuance of the UK (55%) in Scotland.

I'm far from the only person to value my EU citizenship more than my British citizenship, and it seems that, given the choice of one union or the other, most people in Scotland would choose the EU.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
They won't be chosing th EU though, they will be chosing to leave the UK and then make an long winded and un certain application for EU membership.
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