Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[blinkythefish]

confused_buyer said:

To echo above, Scotland faces the same challenges and uncertainties as the rest of the UK at the moment which will have a bad effect on investment and the economy.

What Scotland does not need is another set of uncertainties piled on top of this with the dangle of another referendum.

The right thing to do is sit tight, keep calm and see how it plays out. If the UK gets a deal with the EU that Scotland cannot live with then maybe, maybe then is the time to consider another referendum maybe with the policy that an independent Scotland will join the EU.

The sensible thing is to see what the deal is and then decide whether it is good or bad for Scotland.

Sturgeon is not showing any leadership. She is making political mischief and heaping an extra load of uncertainty on Scotland to go with the current.

I do despair at Sturgeon's actions. Currently we have an impending Brexit, which will:

1. Introduce barriers to trading with our largest trade partner.
2. possibly destabilize our currency.
3. Introduce uncertainty into the economy.

And the nationalist big plan to fix it? Go for independence, which will:

1. Introduce barriers to trading with our largest trade partner(the UK) and still not fix any barrier to trade with the EU.
2. Completely annihilate our currency.
3. Introduce even more uncertainty into the economy.

They'd be the worst fire brigade in the world - "Oh, your house is on fire?" "Let's chuck some petrol on it, that'll sort it out!!"

[fluffnik]

Sylvaforever said:

EU citizens were, unjustly, denied a vote
How do you work that one out then, they are not citizens of this country for a REASON [or three].

When we had a referendum in Scotland we, broadly, gave a vote to those whose home was here, and those with the most future to consider, because it was the right thing to do.

...but then our referendum was about better governance, not xenophobia.

[fluffnik]

Leithen said:

fluffnik said:

People close to Chancellor Merkel are even suggesting that Scotland could be treated as a continuing member, there's even a (quasi)precedent in the case of Denmark.

Manfred Weber said:

“On the Scottish level: to go the other way, it is up to them. Europe is open to new member states, that is totally clear. Those who want to stay are welcome in the European Union.”

He's being quite clear, Scotland would have to join as a new member, with all that goes with that, which is of course the only way the other 27 states would begin to agree with it, and that's presuming Spain etc don't have big issues...

My emphasis.

[andy_s]

fluffnik said:

...but then our referendum was about better governance, not xenophobia.

It was about independence from rUK, at least that was what was on the ballot paper anyway.

[confused_buyer]

fluffnik said:

My emphasis.

If Sturgeon gets a clear welcome message that normal membership rules can be by-passed then she'll be shouting it from the roof tops very shortly.

If, on the other hand, she gets the brush off there will be the sound of silence (or non-committal waffle) so we'll find out soon enough.

[Patrick Bateman]

Never saw this before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVynXGj4eyA

[andy_s]

confused_buyer said:

fluffnik said:

My emphasis.

If Sturgeon gets a clear welcome message that normal membership rules can be by-passed then she'll be shouting it from the roof tops very shortly.

If, on the other hand, she gets the brush off there will be the sound of silence (or non-committal waffle) so we'll find out soon enough.

As stated a few times, she's asked the EU already and they said fk off and apply like everyone else.

[AC43]

fluffnik said:

Sylvaforever said:

EU citizens were, unjustly, denied a vote
How do you work that one out then, they are not citizens of this country for a REASON [or three].

When we had a referendum in Scotland we, broadly, gave a vote to those whose home was here, and those with the most future to consider, because it was the right thing to do.

...but then our referendum was about better governance, not xenophobia.

I'm not so sure about that. The concepts behind Yes and Brexit appear pretty much carbon copy to me. The triumph of hope for "something better" over substance and an economic cataclysm to welcome those who win "independence".

[Rollin]

Fluffnik must be gutted that rUK nationalists are more committed than Scotland's.

[simoid]

It's weird. Surely this the worst EVER time to consider independence, yet the nationalists still bleat on evermore... it would be a seriously good strategy to shut the fk up or fk the fk off, as Malcolm Tucker possibly said, for at least a decade or so and then try again.

Would our yes supporters here agree that they look desperate and infantile?

Edited by simoid on Monday 27th June 18:13

[fluffnik]

andy_s said:

fluffnik said:

...but then our referendum was about better governance, not xenophobia.

It was about independence from rUK, at least that was what was on the ballot paper anyway.

The franchise was extended to those who made their home in Scotland, but not those who had left.

...unlike some other referenda.

[General Price]

Rollin said:

Fluffnik must be gutted that rUK nationalists are more committed than Scotland's.

[confused_buyer]

General Price said:

It's a good point:

September 2014: Scotland asked to take a jump into the dark and risk the economy for greater democracy; Result: 55% say no.

June 2016: Scotland asked to take a jump into the dark and risk the economy for greater democracy; Result: 62% say no.

June 2016: England asked to take a jump into the dark and risk the economy for greater democracy; Result: 53.4% say yes, OK.

So it seems the English are far braver, or reckless depending on point of view, when it comes to taking a bit of a punt.

[Murph7355]

fluffnik said:

My emphasis.

Scotland isn't in the EU.

[Cobnapint]

simoid said:

It's weird. Surely this the worst EVER time to consider independence, yet the nationalists still bleat on evermore... it would be a seriously good strategy to shut the fk up or fk the fk off, as Malcolm Tucker possibly said, for at least a decade or so and then try again.

Would our yes supporters here agree that they look desperate and infantile?

This. Spot on.

But don't tell Nichola.

[glazbagun]

contango said:

Disappointing, I would love to see the parasites out of the Uk, but they don't have a plan, means or the will to carry it through.

Well, England has the means, I'll give them that. Dunno about the rest.

Gibraltar dude has been talking to Sturgeon. Leaving the EU looks serious here, in Gibraltar it must be the end of the world!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

[Edinburger]

Who saw this coming?!

Gibraltar in talks with Scotland to stay in EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

[HD Adam]

Edinburger said:

Who saw this coming?!

Gibraltar in talks with Scotland to stay in EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Neither Gibraltar or Scotland are in the EU. The UK, of which both places wanted to stay when last asked, is in the EU.

The UK is leaving.

[Edinburger]

contango said:

As Cameron pointed out earlier, if scotland had gained independence in 2014 they would have been out of the EU anyway.
Now it is the most important thing to them?

They are acting like spoiled children who might behave better if you give them more pocket money.

Disappointing, I would love to see the parasites out of the Uk, but they don't have a plan, means or the will to carry it through.

"Parasites"?

Get a grip of yourself son.

[Edinburger]

contango said:

This thread is now on Volume 7, I am quite sure the Barnett formula has been mentioned before, have you conveniently forgotten about that?

Why don't you look into the rationale behind the Barnett Formula.

And don't be so bloody condescending.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying watching England struggle against Iceland.