Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
She's like a broken f
king record.
Democratic interests - "the need to make sure Scotland's voice is heard and our wishes respected."
Except obviously, the 2014 vote, or the Brexit vote. They can be ignored.
Economic interests - "safeguarding free movement of labour, access to a single market of 500 million people and the funding that our farmers and universities depend on".
Is it maybe not preferable that farmers don't rely on funding? That they grow things and sell it for profit? Or is that too simple for politicians?
Social protection - "ensuring the continued protection of workers' and wider human rights".
Is this in doubt? Is the UK about to revert to Victorian standards?
Solidarity - "the ability of independent nations to come together for the common good of all our citizens, to tackle crime and terrorism and deal with global challenges like climate change".
Is this in doubt? And how does it square when it's quite clear at the moment the EU is importing terrorism on a grand scale?
Having influence - "making sure that we don't just have to abide by the rules of the single market but also have a say in shaping them."
We'd have huge influence in the EU. Obviously.
Hateful wee runt clearly thinks that shouting = having influence. Someone tell her where she is in the pecking order please.
king record. Democratic interests - "the need to make sure Scotland's voice is heard and our wishes respected."
Except obviously, the 2014 vote, or the Brexit vote. They can be ignored.
Economic interests - "safeguarding free movement of labour, access to a single market of 500 million people and the funding that our farmers and universities depend on".
Is it maybe not preferable that farmers don't rely on funding? That they grow things and sell it for profit? Or is that too simple for politicians?
Social protection - "ensuring the continued protection of workers' and wider human rights".
Is this in doubt? Is the UK about to revert to Victorian standards?
Solidarity - "the ability of independent nations to come together for the common good of all our citizens, to tackle crime and terrorism and deal with global challenges like climate change".
Is this in doubt? And how does it square when it's quite clear at the moment the EU is importing terrorism on a grand scale?
Having influence - "making sure that we don't just have to abide by the rules of the single market but also have a say in shaping them."
We'd have huge influence in the EU. Obviously.
Hateful wee runt clearly thinks that shouting = having influence. Someone tell her where she is in the pecking order please.
technodup said:
She's like a broken fking record.
Democratic interests - "the need to make sure Scotland's voice is heard and our wishes respected."
Except obviously, the 2014 vote, or the Brexit vote. They can be ignored.
Economic interests - "safeguarding free movement of labour, access to a single market of 500 million people and the funding that our farmers and universities depend on".
Is it maybe not preferable that farmers don't rely on funding? That they grow things and sell it for profit? Or is that too simple for politicians?
Social protection - "ensuring the continued protection of workers' and wider human rights".
Is this in doubt? Is the UK about to revert to Victorian standards?
Solidarity - "the ability of independent nations to come together for the common good of all our citizens, to tackle crime and terrorism and deal with global challenges like climate change".
Is this in doubt? And how does it square when it's quite clear at the moment the EU is importing terrorism on a grand scale?
Having influence - "making sure that we don't just have to abide by the rules of the single market but also have a say in shaping them."
We'd have huge influence in the EU. Obviously.
Hateful wee runt clearly thinks that shouting = having influence. Someone tell her where she is in the pecking order please.
we need spitting image back I can only imagine how her Puppet would look likeking record. Democratic interests - "the need to make sure Scotland's voice is heard and our wishes respected."
Except obviously, the 2014 vote, or the Brexit vote. They can be ignored.
Economic interests - "safeguarding free movement of labour, access to a single market of 500 million people and the funding that our farmers and universities depend on".
Is it maybe not preferable that farmers don't rely on funding? That they grow things and sell it for profit? Or is that too simple for politicians?
Social protection - "ensuring the continued protection of workers' and wider human rights".
Is this in doubt? Is the UK about to revert to Victorian standards?
Solidarity - "the ability of independent nations to come together for the common good of all our citizens, to tackle crime and terrorism and deal with global challenges like climate change".
Is this in doubt? And how does it square when it's quite clear at the moment the EU is importing terrorism on a grand scale?
Having influence - "making sure that we don't just have to abide by the rules of the single market but also have a say in shaping them."
We'd have huge influence in the EU. Obviously.
Hateful wee runt clearly thinks that shouting = having influence. Someone tell her where she is in the pecking order please.
https://youtu.be/VTcl3SxP8EE
ellroy said:
Terrible for the UK in what way?
From a pure financial basis there's a strong argument that the UK would be better off without Scotland.
Culturally, not sure what would be lost? What else?
I do not want Scotland to leave as I feel we're fundamentally one nation and better together, and this has been the case for a very long time.
Why do you think the UK is "better together" if you think the UK would be "better off (financially) without Scotland" and culturally not much different. From a pure financial basis there's a strong argument that the UK would be better off without Scotland.
Culturally, not sure what would be lost? What else?
I do not want Scotland to leave as I feel we're fundamentally one nation and better together, and this has been the case for a very long time.
I honestly think they will have a referendum and leave. It's not what I want to happen but I think NS just won't give up and 2017 they will have a referendum and based on the EU vote I think they will leave the UK. Even though I don't think they will get into the EU as easily as SNP seem to think, I just think they are never going to give up on breaking the union and the only way to stop it would be a GE that see's the SNP lose seats.
sirtyro said:
I honestly think they will have a referendum and leave. It's not what I want to happen but I think NS just won't give up and 2017 they will have a referendum and based on the EU vote I think they will leave the UK. Even though I don't think they will get into the EU as easily as SNP seem to think, I just think they are never going to give up on breaking the union and the only way to stop it would be a GE that see's the SNP lose seats.
Wee Nippy can "call for" a referendum as she states in all her bullst interviews but she cannot "call" a referendum on the break up of the UK.Only the PM can do that.
HD Adam said:
sirtyro said:
I honestly think they will have a referendum and leave. It's not what I want to happen but I think NS just won't give up and 2017 they will have a referendum and based on the EU vote I think they will leave the UK. Even though I don't think they will get into the EU as easily as SNP seem to think, I just think they are never going to give up on breaking the union and the only way to stop it would be a GE that see's the SNP lose seats.
Wee Nippy can "call for" a referendum as she states in all her bullst interviews but she cannot "call" a referendum on the break up of the UK.Only the PM can do that.
hole of a woman.Hainey said:
HD Adam said:
sirtyro said:
I honestly think they will have a referendum and leave. It's not what I want to happen but I think NS just won't give up and 2017 they will have a referendum and based on the EU vote I think they will leave the UK. Even though I don't think they will get into the EU as easily as SNP seem to think, I just think they are never going to give up on breaking the union and the only way to stop it would be a GE that see's the SNP lose seats.
Wee Nippy can "call for" a referendum as she states in all her bullst interviews but she cannot "call" a referendum on the break up of the UK.Only the PM can do that.
hole of a woman.
nightcruiser said:
Hainey said:
HD Adam said:
sirtyro said:
I honestly think they will have a referendum and leave. It's not what I want to happen but I think NS just won't give up and 2017 they will have a referendum and based on the EU vote I think they will leave the UK. Even though I don't think they will get into the EU as easily as SNP seem to think, I just think they are never going to give up on breaking the union and the only way to stop it would be a GE that see's the SNP lose seats.
Wee Nippy can "call for" a referendum as she states in all her bullst interviews but she cannot "call" a referendum on the break up of the UK.Only the PM can do that.
hole of a woman.Fair to say he could draw uncomfortable parallels with where he grew up.
That's surely not good.
Regardless of your views on Scottish independence, the UK, which Scots marginally voted to remain part of in 2014, has fundamentally changed. A UK outwith the EU is a very different ball game, although it also needs to be recognised that Scotland trades with rUK significantly more than Europe.
Also bear in mind that the people of Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar are also being pulled out of the EU against their democratic will.
Federal UK within five years, I'd suggest. Or, the UK dissolves. And I'm not sure that's good for anyone.
Also bear in mind that the people of Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar are also being pulled out of the EU against their democratic will.
Federal UK within five years, I'd suggest. Or, the UK dissolves. And I'm not sure that's good for anyone.
iphonedyou said:
Garvin said:
Cost savings? Not significant. Each country still maintains the infrastructure for its own regulation so the savings are marginal at best. Indeed, small businesses in UK oft complain about a number of EU directives that add unnecessary cost so any savings in government are probably nullified by the additional cost to businesses. But I suspect your enquiry was rhetorical anyway.
The EU model is a simple one whereby the rich countries with a net contribution subsidise the poorer countries - it is the socialist way. By this method the poorer countries may see an increase in the standard of living/infrastructure etc. but inexorably become more reliant on the central handouts. The lack of incentive to improve their own lot makes them evermore dependent on the centre. The centre, of course, determines what the handouts are to be spent on thereby exercising central control more and more by stealth. It is the socialist way. When things go wrong for the poorer country they cannot break free due to the dependency they have been lulled into and inevitably lose almost all control of their own destiny. Just ask Greece.
This model flies completely in the face of the SNP rhetoric. They want ever more control over the subsidy they receive from Westminster but are apparently quite happy to swap that subsidy for one from the EU where there will be less control not more. Indeed, in the drive for ever closer political and fiscal union the SNP control in an 'independent' Scotland within the EU will inexorably diminish. The arguments and policies of the SNP, including their staunch supporters - Fluff included - make no political or economic sense and rapidly fall apart under even the lightest of interrogation.
One is left with the inescapable conclusion that the SNP is driven solely by racism against the English. Bitter and twisted hatred - it will eventually be the destruction of Scotland.
Well, damn.The EU model is a simple one whereby the rich countries with a net contribution subsidise the poorer countries - it is the socialist way. By this method the poorer countries may see an increase in the standard of living/infrastructure etc. but inexorably become more reliant on the central handouts. The lack of incentive to improve their own lot makes them evermore dependent on the centre. The centre, of course, determines what the handouts are to be spent on thereby exercising central control more and more by stealth. It is the socialist way. When things go wrong for the poorer country they cannot break free due to the dependency they have been lulled into and inevitably lose almost all control of their own destiny. Just ask Greece.
This model flies completely in the face of the SNP rhetoric. They want ever more control over the subsidy they receive from Westminster but are apparently quite happy to swap that subsidy for one from the EU where there will be less control not more. Indeed, in the drive for ever closer political and fiscal union the SNP control in an 'independent' Scotland within the EU will inexorably diminish. The arguments and policies of the SNP, including their staunch supporters - Fluff included - make no political or economic sense and rapidly fall apart under even the lightest of interrogation.
One is left with the inescapable conclusion that the SNP is driven solely by racism against the English. Bitter and twisted hatred - it will eventually be the destruction of Scotland.
You've zero chance of getting a response from Fluff on this, but that says more than an irrelevant, illogical one liner ever could.
It saddens me that people even suggest there's anything racist about Scottish independence. I mean, seriously.
el stovey said:
mikal83 said:
Cobnapint said:
Let me try...
Fluff, why is Nichola Sturgeon so head-jerkingly desperate to stay in the EU...?
Its the "anyone but England" attitude the jocks have. To stay in the EU the jocks will have to have another ref to separate the union and that is the real reason.Fluff, why is Nichola Sturgeon so head-jerkingly desperate to stay in the EU...?
There's some real xenophobic rubbish being posted on this thread. Everyone with half a clue knows it would be terrible for the UK if Scotland ever leaves. I really hope it never happens.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 24th July 20:37
el stovey said:
ellroy said:
Terrible for the UK in what way?
From a pure financial basis there's a strong argument that the UK would be better off without Scotland.
Culturally, not sure what would be lost? What else?
I do not want Scotland to leave as I feel we're fundamentally one nation and better together, and this has been the case for a very long time.
Why do you think the UK is "better together" if you think the UK would be "better off (financially) without Scotland" and culturally not much different. From a pure financial basis there's a strong argument that the UK would be better off without Scotland.
Culturally, not sure what would be lost? What else?
I do not want Scotland to leave as I feel we're fundamentally one nation and better together, and this has been the case for a very long time.
Edinburger said:
Regardless of your views on Scottish independence, the UK, which Scots marginally voted to remain part of in 2014, has fundamentally changed. A UK outwith the EU is a very different ball game, although it also needs to be recognised that Scotland trades with rUK significantly more than Europe.
Also bear in mind that the people of Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar are also being pulled out of the EU against their democratic will.
Federal UK within five years, I'd suggest. Or, the UK dissolves. And I'm not sure that's good for anyone.
But the EU referendum was to determine if the UK should leave as a whole, all this talk about provinces, regions, cities etc is just white noise. How the result is broken down is irrelevant.Also bear in mind that the people of Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar are also being pulled out of the EU against their democratic will.
Federal UK within five years, I'd suggest. Or, the UK dissolves. And I'm not sure that's good for anyone.
So, had Sturgeon got her way in 2014, Scotland would have left the Union and with it, the EU. Now she wants in.
It's like a perverse game of the Hokey Cokey, let's just hope Sturgeon doesn't "shake it all about" :-(
Edinburger said:
It saddens me that people even suggest there's anything racist about Scottish independence. I mean, seriously.
Well be sad 'burger, because Sturgeon's stance on remaining within the EU while being out of the UK exposes the 'anything but England' motivation behind the SNP. That is xenophibic racism regardless of what euphamisms Sturgeon et al use.Plus, go talk to some 'grass roots' members to get a handle on their motivation. Heck, just listen to Fluffnick or take a look at some of the posts from Strocky (there's a good reason he was banned from this thread) to see that you are being at best naive.
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 26th July 08:45
Edinburger said:
iphonedyou said:
Garvin said:
Cost savings? Not significant. Each country still maintains the infrastructure for its own regulation so the savings are marginal at best. Indeed, small businesses in UK oft complain about a number of EU directives that add unnecessary cost so any savings in government are probably nullified by the additional cost to businesses. But I suspect your enquiry was rhetorical anyway.
The EU model is a simple one whereby the rich countries with a net contribution subsidise the poorer countries - it is the socialist way. By this method the poorer countries may see an increase in the standard of living/infrastructure etc. but inexorably become more reliant on the central handouts. The lack of incentive to improve their own lot makes them evermore dependent on the centre. The centre, of course, determines what the handouts are to be spent on thereby exercising central control more and more by stealth. It is the socialist way. When things go wrong for the poorer country they cannot break free due to the dependency they have been lulled into and inevitably lose almost all control of their own destiny. Just ask Greece.
This model flies completely in the face of the SNP rhetoric. They want ever more control over the subsidy they receive from Westminster but are apparently quite happy to swap that subsidy for one from the EU where there will be less control not more. Indeed, in the drive for ever closer political and fiscal union the SNP control in an 'independent' Scotland within the EU will inexorably diminish. The arguments and policies of the SNP, including their staunch supporters - Fluff included - make no political or economic sense and rapidly fall apart under even the lightest of interrogation.
One is left with the inescapable conclusion that the SNP is driven solely by racism against the English. Bitter and twisted hatred - it will eventually be the destruction of Scotland.
Well, damn.The EU model is a simple one whereby the rich countries with a net contribution subsidise the poorer countries - it is the socialist way. By this method the poorer countries may see an increase in the standard of living/infrastructure etc. but inexorably become more reliant on the central handouts. The lack of incentive to improve their own lot makes them evermore dependent on the centre. The centre, of course, determines what the handouts are to be spent on thereby exercising central control more and more by stealth. It is the socialist way. When things go wrong for the poorer country they cannot break free due to the dependency they have been lulled into and inevitably lose almost all control of their own destiny. Just ask Greece.
This model flies completely in the face of the SNP rhetoric. They want ever more control over the subsidy they receive from Westminster but are apparently quite happy to swap that subsidy for one from the EU where there will be less control not more. Indeed, in the drive for ever closer political and fiscal union the SNP control in an 'independent' Scotland within the EU will inexorably diminish. The arguments and policies of the SNP, including their staunch supporters - Fluff included - make no political or economic sense and rapidly fall apart under even the lightest of interrogation.
One is left with the inescapable conclusion that the SNP is driven solely by racism against the English. Bitter and twisted hatred - it will eventually be the destruction of Scotland.
You've zero chance of getting a response from Fluff on this, but that says more than an irrelevant, illogical one liner ever could.
It saddens me that people even suggest there's anything racist about Scottish independence. I mean, seriously.
Edinburger said:
Good post until we saw the R word.
It saddens me that people even suggest there's anything racist about Scottish independence. I mean, seriously.
Edinburger I understand you genuinely believe there is nothing racist about Scottish independence, but you are wrong. As an English person who chose to move to Scotland 5 years ago because I had fallen in love with the country the first time I came here, I can confirm anti English racism is alive and thriving here. It saddens me that people even suggest there's anything racist about Scottish independence. I mean, seriously.
From the man who told a room full of Irish people we hate the f
king English as I was sat next to him, to the numerous comments on social media telling English people to "go home". My Glaswegian neighbour whose English wife was abused for being English, the "celebrity" who thinks it's ok to call people "stupid English" (try substituting black or gay in that sentence and see the reaction), the people who when talking about someone have to drop into the sentence that the person is English.Just because you are able to ignore it or not notice it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and the snp have done nothing to tackle it and their constant talk of separation and how terribly they think Westminster is just encourages this behaviour. It is one of the main factors behind me no longer wanting to live here.
Edinburger said:
Regardless of your views on Scottish independence, the UK, which Scots marginally voted to remain part of in 2014, has fundamentally changed. A UK outwith the EU is a very different ball game, although it also needs to be recognised that Scotland trades with rUK significantly more than Europe.
Also bear in mind that the people of Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar are also being pulled out of the EU against their democratic will.
Federal UK within five years, I'd suggest. Or, the UK dissolves. And I'm not sure that's good for anyone.
Scotland voted with the knowledge that Brexit was possible, and that an independent Scotland would have to apply for EU membership.Also bear in mind that the people of Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar are also being pulled out of the EU against their democratic will.
Federal UK within five years, I'd suggest. Or, the UK dissolves. And I'm not sure that's good for anyone.
We choose to live in a democracy. Sometimes that means you vote for something that doesn't happen. I'm sure the good people of Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar are mature enough to understand that. Unlike the SNP and their sizeable infantile support.
On the "anti English" front:
I do wonder how many remain votes in Scotland were due to the need for many to toe the SNP line, or indeed appear "anti-Tory". I posted an interview on BBC Scotland here before the EURef. A man in Glasgow was asked which way he was voting in the EU referendum. He said "Remain. Anything David Cameron does, I do the opposite." It was pointed out to him that David Cameron was in favour of remain and his world fell apart.
I think "Tory" has become an insult in Scotland. A quick look around Facebook and the nationalist pages shows this. I suspect many of the people insulting Tories would happily replace "Tory" for "English", and we've seen many times the SNP tap into that with using "English Tories" in speeches. They know there's anti English sentiment and they play on it. There's also a growing intolerance of other people's political views. You are not helping with your talk of "being pulled out of the EU against their will".
simoid said:
I posted an interview on BBC Scotland here before the EURef. A man in Glasgow was asked which way he was voting in the EU referendum. He said "Remain. Anything David Cameron does, I do the opposite." It was pointed out to him that David Cameron was in favour of remain and his world fell apart.
I think "Tory" has become an insult in Scotland. A quick look around Facebook and the nationalist pages shows this. I suspect many of the people insulting Tories would happily replace "Tory" for "English", and we've seen many times the SNP tap into that with using "English Tories" in speeches. They know there's anti English sentiment and they play on it. There's also a growing intolerance of other people's political views. You are not helping with your talk of "being pulled out of the EU against their will".
That's the euphamisms I am talking about. It is funny to watch the SNP drones failing to keep up with political movement, and even funnier watching the party machine spend time establishing who the bogeymen are just for the leadership to change!I think "Tory" has become an insult in Scotland. A quick look around Facebook and the nationalist pages shows this. I suspect many of the people insulting Tories would happily replace "Tory" for "English", and we've seen many times the SNP tap into that with using "English Tories" in speeches. They know there's anti English sentiment and they play on it. There's also a growing intolerance of other people's political views. You are not helping with your talk of "being pulled out of the EU against their will".
One recurring theme among the SNats when they talk to each other is that Tory=paedophile. It was depressingly predictable that in the hours after Theresa May was established as prime minister (does not compute because not a guy and therefor not a paedo in the minds of the SNat drones) a fake quote appeared on Facebook linking her with support for the rehabilitation of paedophiles!
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