Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[Strocky]

r11co said:

The more concerning lack of realisation in SNP cultists is that the Quebec example demonstrates that the process of separatism simply cannot deliver on the promises made by those who drive it, and is motivated purely by selve-serving leaders leveraging power for themselves through a process of divide and conquer. The self-congratulatory nonsense of the '56' after the election and Sturgeon maxing-out on the trappings of a party leader during the campaign (I mean, a helicopter FFS) is ample demonstration of that.

The precedent is there - what makes SNP followers think their experiences will be different? I suspect the overwhelming majority do not have a clue about the Canada situation and have no interest in learning about it.

Edited by r11co on Saturday 27th June 08:09

Labour being routed in the GE up here has really made you a bitter wee boy, how dare the SNP use party funds to fly the FM around the country meeting people on the street, much more refined to be limo driven in the back door of a friendly closed doors meeting with party activists

The main comparison between Quebec and the SR was the "love bombing" technique employed in the latter stages when the establishment started stting beans about the prospect of losing the ref

[Strocky]

Some classic small minded lumpen mass heritage thinking on display on this page regarding TV Channels and signage

I assume that the use of Welsh, Irish & Cornish language in media/signage also irks the irritant unionists as well?

Scottish TV license payers generate roughly £300m pa in revenues, considering BBC Scotland's budget is about £85m pa and Scotland averages 8% of the BBC total spend, it's called "pooling and sharing" as us Nats are oft lectured, deal with it

[Strocky]

AC43 said:

I went to Quebec in 1992 and saw it with my own eyes. The "poor" and "downtrodden" Francophiles had already created loads of extra demands, bureaucracy and red tape that slowed the economy right down.

Everything and I mean EVERYTHING had to be dual language. I was working for a company supplying software to the rail company and there was an entire office block dedicated to people who would read English computer manuals, transcribe them into French and print them out. Un-f*****g believable. BBC Scotland Gaelic productions, anyone?

On the building outside there were two neon signs. One said "Transport Canada". The other said "Transports Canada". Yes, folks, the second one was in French. Sound familiar? Replacing all the road signs in the Highlands so they've all got Gaelic on them as well?

They'd already pissed away the legacy from the Montreal games. The sites were supposed to be used for major business conventions but after a few years the Americans stopped coming. They'd apparently got tired of waiters pretending they didn't understand English and spitting in their soup. Well done Frenchies, that showed them, eh?

I asked one of the bosses at Transport Canada how it worked. He was well educated and well paid and explained that he'd moved in from another part of Canada. As he hadn't gone to an English speaking school there as a kid he was obliged to send his children to French-speaking school. I asked what the end result was and he explained that kids of the "privileged" became bi-lingual and ended up managing companies like Transport Canada and the Francophiles created their own ghetto and became ticket inspectors. I really don't think this is what the cheese munchers actually had in mind.

It was a really eye opener for me and put me off separatism/nationalism for life. A few short years later Yugoslavia kicked off and that really sealed it for me. At best you have tons of pointless bureacracy, at worst angry, bitter divisiveness. Ah'm oot.

Are you seriously trying to make a comparison about the wholescale use of French & Gaelic language/print in Canada to make a point about Scottish Independence having the same effect?

[AC43]

Strocky said:

AC43 said:

I went to Quebec in 1992 and saw it with my own eyes. The "poor" and "downtrodden" Francophiles had already created loads of extra demands, bureaucracy and red tape that slowed the economy right down.

Everything and I mean EVERYTHING had to be dual language. I was working for a company supplying software to the rail company and there was an entire office block dedicated to people who would read English computer manuals, transcribe them into French and print them out. Un-f*****g believable. BBC Scotland Gaelic productions, anyone?

On the building outside there were two neon signs. One said "Transport Canada". The other said "Transports Canada". Yes, folks, the second one was in French. Sound familiar? Replacing all the road signs in the Highlands so they've all got Gaelic on them as well?

They'd already pissed away the legacy from the Montreal games. The sites were supposed to be used for major business conventions but after a few years the Americans stopped coming. They'd apparently got tired of waiters pretending they didn't understand English and spitting in their soup. Well done Frenchies, that showed them, eh?

I asked one of the bosses at Transport Canada how it worked. He was well educated and well paid and explained that he'd moved in from another part of Canada. As he hadn't gone to an English speaking school there as a kid he was obliged to send his children to French-speaking school. I asked what the end result was and he explained that kids of the "privileged" became bi-lingual and ended up managing companies like Transport Canada and the Francophiles created their own ghetto and became ticket inspectors. I really don't think this is what the cheese munchers actually had in mind.

It was a really eye opener for me and put me off separatism/nationalism for life. A few short years later Yugoslavia kicked off and that really sealed it for me. At best you have tons of pointless bureacracy, at worst angry, bitter divisiveness. Ah'm oot.

Are you seriously trying to make a comparison about the wholescale use of French & Gaelic language/print in Canada to make a point about Scottish Independence having the same effect?

Yes.

It's just that the Quebecois are much further down the (failed) journey for independance and have wasted far more money.

The principals are exactly the same. A belief in some sort of mythical past. A sense of entitlement. Extra layers of bureaucracy and cost. Plenty of whining. Resentment from everyone else. Economic decline.

In the case of the Quebecois De Gaulle visited in the 60's, made some sort of speech ending "Vive Quebec. Vive La France". He then stubbed his fag out, got back on his plane and forgot all about it. The Quebecois, however, saw this is as some sort of sign and have been banging on about independence ever since. With hugely damaging results.

Edited by AC43 on Tuesday 30th June 09:06

[technodup]

Strocky said:

Scottish TV license payers generate roughly £300m pa in revenues, considering BBC Scotland's budget is about £85m pa and Scotland averages 8% of the BBC total spend, it's called "pooling and sharing" as us Nats are oft lectured, deal with it

It's not the sharing that's the issue. It's the question of why we would want to spend part of the shared resource on a specialist TV channel for a failed language only 70k people in Scotland still speak.

[rich1231]

Strocky said:

Some classic small minded lumpen mass heritage thinking on display on this page regarding TV Channels and signage

I assume that the use of Welsh, Irish & Cornish language in media/signage also irks the irritant unionists as well?

Scottish TV license payers generate roughly £300m pa in revenues, considering BBC Scotland's budget is about £85m pa and Scotland averages 8% of the BBC total spend, it's called "pooling and sharing" as us Nats are oft lectured, deal with it

So no one in Scotland watches non BBC Scotalnd output?

[Strocky]

technodup said:

Strocky said:

Scottish TV license payers generate roughly £300m pa in revenues, considering BBC Scotland's budget is about £85m pa and Scotland averages 8% of the BBC total spend, it's called "pooling and sharing" as us Nats are oft lectured, deal with it

It's not the sharing that's the issue. It's the question of why we would want to spend part of the shared resource on a specialist TV channel for a failed language only 70k people in Scotland still speak.

You better tell AC43 that number again as he thinks that there are hordes of Gaels roaming Scotland demanding paperwork be filled out in triplicate

If we start only to broadcast content based on viewers ratings then it will be non-stop soaps, reality TV crap & Top Gear on repeat being screened

The UK is a broad church with numerous factions (large and small) and the BBC is seen as a respected broadcaster who under the terms of the TV License with the UK Government agree to cater for ALL denominations of the UK, seems a bit churlish to have such a narrow world view about what fellow TV license fee payers wish to watch in various different parts of the country IMHO

[Strocky]

rich1231 said:

Strocky said:

Some classic small minded lumpen mass heritage thinking on display on this page regarding TV Channels and signage

I assume that the use of Welsh, Irish & Cornish language in media/signage also irks the irritant unionists as well?

Scottish TV license payers generate roughly £300m pa in revenues, considering BBC Scotland's budget is about £85m pa and Scotland averages 8% of the BBC total spend, it's called "pooling and sharing" as us Nats are oft lectured, deal with it

So no one in Scotland watches non BBC Scotalnd output?

Hence the pooling and sharing comment, try and keep up there's a good lad

[roadtripboy]

Strocky said:

You better tell AC43 that number again as he thinks that there are hordes of Gaels roaming Scotland demanding paperwork be filled out in triplicate

You're not getting this.

He isn't making a specific point about languages. (FWIW I have no issue with modest sums of money being spent on our cultural heritage, which includes languages.)

He is making a more general point about how separatism creates needless animosity, division, duplication, and waste. Self-serving politicians, however, love it, as it creates an excellent distraction from the real problems facing the country.

[r11co]

As predicted - add SNP's Land Reform to the failed/pointless/wasteful acts listed on Page 2 of this thread.

Yet another part of the Scottish economy put in stasis due to SNP's poor governance. Can't see how they can blame anyone else for this one.

It does seem that the SNP's undoing will be their abject incompetence. I'm sure Sturgeon is casting an eye over Greece at the moment, wondering how much longer she can use the rallying call 'an end to austerity'.

Edited by r11co on Tuesday 30th June 11:49

[McTory]

rich1231 said:

So no one in Scotland watches non BBC Scotland output?

Of course not

We can't stand your filthy unionist LIES

[McTory]

r11co said:

As predicted - add SNP's Land Reform to the failed/pointless/wasteful acts listed on Page 2 of this thread.

That RED tory lying SCUM

What does he know about foodbanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rick_1138]

McTory said:

r11co said:

As predicted - add SNP's Land Reform to the failed/pointless/wasteful acts listed on Page 2 of this thread.

That RED tory lying SCUM

What does he know about foodbanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cant work out if McTory is having a laugh, sarcastic, trolling or genuine.

[technodup]

Strocky said:

agree to cater for ALL denominations of the UK, seems a bit churlish to have such a narrow world view about what fellow TV license fee payers wish to watch in various different parts of the country IMHO

I look forward to the BBC Punjabi channel. Or Arabic TV, or any number of other languages far more widely spoken than Gaelic.

Although would it not be better if we said this is the UK, English is long established as our primary language, lets not make programmes in a language only a handful of people in the Western Isles can watch. Or instead of looking backward (Gaelic) we might look forward and have some Open University style output in conversational Spanish or Mandarin.

We can debate if we'll all be speaking Mandarin 100 years from now. What we do know is we sure as hell won't be speaking Gaelic.

[///ajd]

Strocky said:

Hence the pooling and sharing comment, try and keep up there's a good lad

Are you saying pooling and sharing is good?

I thought you were a separatist, with no time for sharing?

Which is it?
Or is it both - sharing when it suits YOU, and me, me, me when it doesn't?

[Axionknight]

roadtripboy said:

Strocky said:

You better tell AC43 that number again as he thinks that there are hordes of Gaels roaming Scotland demanding paperwork be filled out in triplicate

You're not getting this.

He isn't making a specific point about languages. (FWIW I have no issue with modest sums of money being spent on our cultural heritage, which includes languages.)

He is making a more general point about how separatism creates needless animosity, division, duplication, and waste. Self-serving politicians, however, love it, as it creates an excellent distraction from the real problems facing the country.

It gives them one more chance to get their hand in the till, too.

Oh wait, they're all a breath of fresh air, I forgot,

[Einion Yrth]

anáil an aile úr.

I think you mean.

[r11co]

Einion Yrth said:

anáil an aile úr.

I think you mean.

[anonymous-user]

Einion Yrth said:

anáil an aile úr.

I think you mean.

Isn't that a Runrig song?

[r11co]

Yet more rank hypocrisy from the SNP - the party who campaigned on a platform to fight the privatisation of all public services.

Red Tories never really existed, but the Yellow and Black Tories are alive and thriving and 'governing' Scotland.

Come on Strocky - let's see how you explain this one (and attacking the messenger is not an option).

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 1st July 13:21