Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[Big Rod]

Strocky said:

Big Rod said:

So what's your point?

You wrote...

"however the difference would be that at least the majority of my fellow citizens would be represented by the party they voted for"

...Which is simply not true. The figures, (facts if you will), tell a different story.

You just carry on posting pretty pictures up by way of a response, there's a good boy.

Leaving aside the fact that more voters in Scotland voted SNP than Labour/Tory/Lib-Dem (you know those parties that turn up in that big old building in that London and run the country) COMBINED in the last GE as per your Wiki Link, I'm assuming your pedantry is aware of the flaws of the FPTP system in regards to UK democracy

Yeah, but you still told a fib.

[Justayellowbadge]

Strocky said:

That you don't know the difference between a region and a country with it's own distinct legal system

In terms of votes in the General Election?

[r11co]

Strocky said:

Are you telling me that Rupert Murdoch is neither Right wing nor morally reprehensible, or that the public records of Alex Salmond's meetings with him are false?

[NoNeed]

Big Rod said:

Strocky said:

NoNeed said:

If the SNP really cared about foodbanks they would waste so much money on other st and vanity projects.

The SNP don't care for foodbanks, they're a direct result of the poverty (for both the unemployed and in-work) due to falling welfare funding & low work pay caused directly by Westminster's decision making

Ah! So they're being used as a flagship to demonstrate how badly we're being treated by our malevolent overlords rather than using the fiscal powers the SG has to hand to do something to resolve the need for them.

Exactly. If they did a good job there would be no argument for independence so they deliberately fk up scotland. It is the SNP way.

[r11co]

Justayellowbadge said:

Strocky said:

Re-read your post and let the stupidity seep in

Pithy, but what exactly are you trying to say?

That's the trouble - he doesn't actually know. His brain is busting because the usual defferment tactics aren't working.

You argument evaporated when you said the SNP were a 'means to an end' - an attempt to distance yourself from their politics while still supporting their aim. 'Defending the indefensible' was the term I used, and that was eventually your clumsy response.

The question I put to you now - is a "generation" of SNP policy such as stealth ID databases, reduced college and university places, fewer teachers, unified and unaccountable police force, reduced NHS spending, botched stamp-duty reform and a squeeze on local authority spending thanks to a council tax freeze intended to be temporary but now a ticking time bomb, and more of the same a worthwhile price to pay for independence?

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 26th August 12:53

[AstonZagato]

Strocky said:

That you don't know the difference between a region and a country with it's own distinct legal system

It would appear that you don't either. Scotland fails most commonly accepted tests as to what constitutes a country (Montevideo convention, declared statehood, recognised statehood, absolute sovereignty, control of economy and money supply). It passes some tests. But those tests are negated by failing others.

Sorry Scotland is a region. Just like England. It used to be a country.

[Gecko1978]

Strocky said:

IainT said:

UK politics is centrist. Scotland is centre-left as are large swathes of England although more centre-right across the whole country. Comparing Scotland to England and declaring political incompatibility is typically short-sited and deep rooted in the nationalist divisive agenda to seek differences rather than consensus. The variations between parts of England are far wider.

We do need a better, more regional system where votes count no matter what the majority of your neighbours vote for. What you have now is an unprecedented level of representation in the UK parliament, total representation i all devolved matters - you can't for a second seriously think having no opposition to the SNP in the Scottish Parliament is a good thing? 50% of the vote in Scotland for 95% of the seats is hardly fair nor representative of the slight majority that didn't vote SNP (50.03% didn't vote SNP in Scotland).

Using the last GE as an example of England forcing a Tory government on the country - it was far more a case of Labour forfeiting a say by giving up the centre ground. A move they're seemingly keen to continue with.

My suggestion is keep the union, move to a federal system with regions, broadly equivalent on some factor - population makes obvious sense. Move election to PR and make voting mandatory. Offer a 'none of the above, they're all wasters' option on all ballots.

I don't want the SNP to have an absolute majority in Holyrood, I'd prefer a coalition with the Greens/Lib Dems to help reign in the SNP's more nanny state policies

I could live with your version of a federal government if you throw in disbanding the Royal Family, the House of Lords and let Portsmouth take a shot of housing Trident for a few years

That would be the House of Lords you don't understand you mean (if you do understand it explain to me why an unelected body of people bound by rules who can not vote for members of the commons is a poor system when there role is constitutional not day to day government). Why disband something that brings in such large tourist revenue...is it because a handful of people are very rich and your not. Fact is if her Maj eats caviar on £50 notes and washes it down with Krug every day the £1 a year I am asked to contribute towards that is frankly immaterial. I am not a Royalist but I am dam sure if we abolished the Monarchy we would end up with some other chinless wonder occupying the palance and costing us far more than the current lot.

[Welshbeef]

Strocky said:

Strictly - can you update your garage within the profile unless your a member of a car website who wants to own a car over actually owning one.


Would be good to hear your fantasy too.

[Strocky]

Justayellowbadge said:

In terms of votes in the General Election?

Is that how countries are defined now these days?

So is Europe a country?

[NoNeed]

Strocky said:

Justayellowbadge said:

In terms of votes in the General Election?

Is that how countries are defined now these days?

So is Europe a country?

No it is a group of countries bound together by treaties, one of which is the UK of where Scotland is one of its regions.

[Strocky]

r11co said:

Are you telling me that Rupert Murdoch is neither Right wing nor morally reprehensible, or that the public records of Alex Salmond's meetings with him are false?

You used a very weak argument to justify Labour going into bed en-masse with very unsavoury characters to "save the Union"

As a Labour supporter I'd have thought you would'nt want to bring too much attention to old Rupert

[Strocky]

NoNeed said:

o it is a group of countries bound together by treaties, one of which is the UK of where Scotland is one of its regions.

The UK's Office for National Statistics, uses "country" to describe England, Scotland and Wales.[5] Northern Ireland, in contrast, is described as a "province" in the same lists.

[NoNeed]

Lets shows some of the SNP lies

[Strocky]

Welshbeef said:

Strictly - can you update your garage within the profile unless your a member of a car website who wants to own a car over actually owning one.


Would be good to hear your fantasy too.

We've been down this road before, are you going to start your "cockroach" nonsense on me as well?

[Strocky]

r11co said:

You presume too much. I never said I was a Labour supporter (although I could understand why you would inaccurately jump to that conclusion).

So who do you support?

[NoNeed]

SNP stupidity?

[Big Rod]

Strocky said:

NoNeed said:

o it is a group of countries bound together by treaties, one of which is the UK of where Scotland is one of its regions.

The UK's Office for National Statistics, uses "country" to describe England, Scotland and Wales.[5] Northern Ireland, in contrast, is described as a "province" in the same lists.

'Pedantry' you say?

[Strocky]

NoNeed said:

Lets shows some of the SNP lies

I see a source for the 2nd quote, but not the 1st, funny that

[NoNeed]

The SNP are doing Scotland proud aren't they.

[r11co]

Strocky said:

So who do you support?

At the moment - "anyone but SNP", or to put it another way, democracy - that conclusion being drawn from the way debate was stifled in the run up to the referendum, and how I was personally treated by activists who knew nothing about me and judged me simply on my non-response to a loaded question, and how I watched institutionalised lies used to unseat honourable public representatives during the General Election.

It is easier for me right now to state who I do not support rather than who I do.

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 26th August 13:06