Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[NoNeed]

Edinburger said:

Are you equally outraged at the use of the Welsh language in Wales?

Or signs, leaflets, etc., in various foreign languages all across the UK?

The welsh have a language that its population actually speak other than English. Scotland has some ancient dialect that a few (if that many)pretentious tts speak in order to try and create a separate identity, completely different.

[r11co]

Edinburger said:

Like it or not, there are Gaelic speakers in some parts of Scotland.

Indeed. So few that it took 9 years for one to spot a rude grammar mistake on a tourist sign.

[Edinburger]

NoNeed said:

Edinburger said:

Are you equally outraged at the use of the Welsh language in Wales?

Or signs, leaflets, etc., in various foreign languages all across the UK?

The welsh have a language that its population actually speak other than English. Scotland has some ancient dialect that a few (if that many)pretentious tts speak in order to try and create a separate identity, completely different.

Gaelic is a recognised minority language spoken by around 87,000 people according to the 2011 consensus.

I think it's also showcased as part of Scottish tourism too.

[Edinburger]

r11co said:

Edinburger said:

Like it or not, there are Gaelic speakers in some parts of Scotland.

Indeed. So few that it took 9 years for one to spot a rude grammar mistake on a tourist sign.

Ha ha really? What's the story?

[Edinburger]

///ajd said:

Edinburger said:

///ajd said:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/...

they just can't put it down can they?

blame others for austerity, do nothing about foodbanks whilst doubling tax breaks for £50k sports cars.

the media should be tearing them a new ars*hole

I posted about the interest free loan scheme for electric cars a few weeks ago.

Not quite as socialist as you think, eh?

I'm referring to your loan scheme - it is indeed not socialist, its pandering to the rich, same as free uni for millionaires. do you still think its 'good'?

left / right is not really the issue - its hypocritical incompetent nonsense, same as all SNP policy. embarrassing.com.

you are sctually defending that helicopter bullsh&t. it could be argued to be just charming, but we both know it is no longer just that, it is deliberately divisive nonsense, serving its purpose to reinforce nationalistic guff.

Edited by ///ajd on Sunday 30th August 23:01

Edited by ///ajd on Sunday 30th August 23:03

The electric car loan scheme certainly isn't socialist - I'd describe as progressive.

And you know it's not 'free university for millionaires' - it's no tuition fees for all Scots. University education still costs in other ways.

And yes - I think both if those schemes are very good.

But many posters here rant on about how socialist the SNP are, and we've seen lots of comments about communism, North Korea, etc. And that's just not the case.

[Edinburger]

NoNeed said:

Edinburger said:

All that's left here is shell of a discussion which now just criticises all things Scottish.

Very sad.

No that's just not true and you know it, all the good we have loved about Scotland is still there but is being spoiled by an idiotic group, it is those we criticise. If you cannot see the SNP are spoiling Scotland for their own political ends you are blind, the cost of the livery on that aircraft that serves no practical purpose at all could have saved 5 families using the foodbanks for a week yet when it is 1000 feet above easter house at 2 am will you be able to read it? what about 2 pm? I doubt it unless you have binoculars.

Total waste, I know it, most of the posters on here know it, and I think you know it but are still too busy watching Mel Gibson movies to actually acknowledge it.

Let's focus on "Scotland is still there but is being spoiled by an idiotic group" - how? How are the SNP spoiling Scotland?

[Welshbeef]

Edinburger said:

Let's focus on "Scotland is still there but is being spoiled by an idiotic group" - how? How are the SNP spoiling Scotland?

Scotland have had income tax rising powers from inception up to 3% - they could have used that at any time to help the locally needy to shut those food banks but no.

The lies and spending public money to cover up the lies only to be found out - all that money could go to the needy

The jollies in the USA and Ryder cup all that money could have gone to help the needy.


When I watch FMQs the FM simply LOL at the question then splurges out some party line totally irrelevant to the question week in week out. The speaker should be sacked and demand he and now she actually answers the question.

What value has Holyrood actually brought Scotland apart from costing the UK £5billion a year ? Very important this one

Centralised the police force an utter farce now.

Scottish NHS is diabolical way behind the rUK

Agreed whatever the result they would fully back it - lied and have divided the country.

I could go on all day but there appears to be nothing they have done to date of any value as such is recommend shutting Holyrood and disbanding the MSPs

[///ajd]

there are so many examples here of how the snp is ruining scotland

the car loan scheme, if additional to the uk grant, is just pointlessly giving away money to people who can afford £30-50k cars anyway. How dare they utter a friggin word about foodbanks? The UK grant already provides some (effectively) VAT relief, why is the SNP setting aside additional hard cash to loan out? its gesture nonsense, but the real hypocrisy is that it is NOT going to the most needy. And the reason for that is covered here and truely shameful.

it is interesting how you cannot see it. it feels increasingly like showing actual real fossils to a creationist to discuss why the earth is older than 6000 years. but it does not matter what evidence is provided, they will always believe the earth is only 6000 years old (or that some vow has been broken/its westminsters fault).

Edited by ///ajd on Monday 31st August 08:46

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

Edinburger said:

Let's focus on "Scotland is still there but is being spoiled by an idiotic group" - how? How are the SNP spoiling Scotland?

Scotland have had income tax rising powers from inception up to 3% - they could have used that at any time to help the locally needy to shut those food banks but no.

The lies and spending public money to cover up the lies only to be found out - all that money could go to the needy

The jollies in the USA and Ryder cup all that money could have gone to help the needy.


When I watch FMQs the FM simply LOL at the question then splurges out some party line totally irrelevant to the question week in week out. The speaker should be sacked and demand he and now she actually answers the question.

What value has Holyrood actually brought Scotland apart from costing the UK £5billion a year ? Very important this one

Centralised the police force an utter farce now.

Scottish NHS is diabolical way behind the rUK

Agreed whatever the result they would fully back it - lied and have divided the country.

I could go on all day but there appears to be nothing they have done to date of any value as such is recommend shutting Holyrood and disbanding the MSPs

Some thoughts from me...

Welshbeef said:

Scotland have had income tax rising powers from inception up to 3% - they could have used that at any time to help the locally needy to shut those food banks but no.

They could have but to raise income tax powers would have many, many negative outcomes (as you know). I think you’re just having a dig for the sake of a dig rather then thinking that point through.

Welshbeef said:

The lies and spending public money to cover up the lies only to be found out - all that money could go to the needy

Err... so no different from Westminster and virtually every other political establishment in the world?

Welshbeef said:

The jollies in the USA and Ryder cup all that money could have gone to help the needy

See above comment...

Welshbeef said:

When I watch FMQs the FM simply LOL at the question then splurges out some party line totally irrelevant to the question week in week out. The speaker should be sacked and demand he and now she actually answers the question.

Any different from PMQs?

Welshbeef said:

What value has Holyrood actually brought Scotland apart from costing the UK £5billion a year ? Very important this one

In my view, a lot of benefit. Look at how devolved powers have been used to benefit Scottish society. Look at how many progressive changes have been passed (many copied by other parts of the UK). Look at how the Scottish electorate vote in favour of Holyrood.

Welshbeef said:

Centralised the police force an utter farce now.

Farce? From the awful incident in Stirling and the reported issues with call centres? To be fair, all organisational restructures have big issues at first.

Welshbeef said:

Scottish NHS is diabolical way behind the rUK

Define “way behind the rUK”? In what way(s)?

Welshbeef said:

Agreed whatever the result they would fully back it - lied and have divided the country

Perhaps, to an extent.

Welshbeef said:

I could go on all day but there appears to be nothing they have done to date of any value as such is recommend shutting Holyrood and disbanding the MSPs

I think that’s just a childish silly comment.

[Welshbeef]

Burger please educate us on which PM used public money to go to court to try to cover up a total falsity.


Salmond claimed he had a legal letter confirming entry to EU would be straight forward - press used FOI to obtain it, he tried to prevent it be spending £20k directly identifiable public money then when it went to court the letter didn't appear instead he made his number 2 tell the press it wasn't true.

This being a key aspect to how people would vote - not in an election sense but to change and split a country. They don't come much bigger than that.

[James P]

Faslane base gets £500m contracts 'to secure 6,700 jobs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

The SNP response - "this so called investment will directly support the deployment of Trident." Nothing and no amount of money will halt the whining and can only end if Scotland is pushed into independence despite the majority of Scots not wanting it.

[Welshbeef]

James P said:

Faslane base gets £500m contracts 'to secure 6,700 jobs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

The SNP response - "this so called investment will directly support the deployment of Trident." Nothing and no amount of money will halt the whining and can only end if Scotland is pushed into independence despite the majority of Scots not wanting it.

My understanding in their "issue" is that this investment preempts the vote to renew trident which will happen in the Spet to Jul 2016 parliament.

Fact is it's a smart move as you can always pull it away but bang into the press aere going to do this in 2017 all those jobs safe and many more created for a decade by which time the new trident will be in. It also forces Labours hand pre the leaders vote how will they stand/lean .

Big boy politics beyond SNPs ability sadly.

[technodup]

Edinburger said:

Gaelic is a recognised minority language spoken by around 87,000 people according to the 2011 consensus.

Precisely. Which doesn't explain why in a country of 5000000 it is given equal billing on every road sign north of Glasgow, every train station in the country and on vanity exercises such as police helicopters.

And I'd wager at least half of that 87k don't speak it regularly, more that they know how to if they had to. As your map shows, outside of the western isles it's dead.

And for what it's worth I don't agree with having other languages on literature or signage either. Learn English, get someone to help or leave. Don't expect us to pay for people's inadequacies.

[Welshbeef]

technodup said:

recisely. Which doesn't explain why in a country of 5000000 it is given equal billing on every road sign north of Glasgow, every train station in the country and on vanity exercises such as police helicopters.

And I'd wager at least half of that 87k don't speak it regularly, more that they know how to if they had to. As your map shows, outside of the western isles it's dead.

And for what it's worth I don't agree with having other languages on literature or signage either. Learn English, get someone to help or leave. Don't expect us to pay for people's inadequacies.

Wales is different it's language has been strong and used heavily throughout Wales all the time - it's been compulsory in schools for decades too (aim from North Wales and pre com pulsar you had no option you would have to learn it).

Now if Scotland SNP made Gaelic compulsory first then rolled out the sign change I'd say that's fair enough but a food ball ground full of people who can speak it/ some will be fluent some might have been told a word or two decades ago and no idea now how it's spoken are within that 87k. Regardless it's a very small number. A very small town at best

[Nick Grant]

Edinburger said:

Let's focus on "Scotland is still there but is being spoiled by an idiotic group" - how? How are the SNP spoiling Scotland?

If they really wanted the best for Scotland after the referendum they should have made a statement along the lines of "The people of Scotland have decided that independence is not right for Scotland at this time, we now need to put aside our differences and work within the constraints we have to make Scotland the best it can be. Only by working together and uniting this great country can we achieve our potential. The time for uncertainty is over."

But they continue to divide the country in half, which can never be a good thing. If you don't think that is spoiling Scotland you must need psychiatric help.

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

Edinburger said:

Gaelic is a recognised minority language spoken by around 87,000 people according to the 2011 consensus.

Precisely. Which doesn't explain why in a country of 5000000 it is given equal billing on every road sign north of Glasgow, every train station in the country and on vanity exercises such as police helicopters.

And I'd wager at least half of that 87k don't speak it regularly, more that they know how to if they had to. As your map shows, outside of the western isles it's dead.

And for what it's worth I don't agree with having other languages on literature or signage either. Learn English, get someone to help or leave. Don't expect us to pay for people's inadequacies.

You'll be equally outraged at the following:

Sign in English and Punjabi at Southall Train Station in London



Sign in Chinatown, Liverpool



Street sign in Bengali and English in the famous Brick Lane, London E1

[Edinburger]

James P said:

Faslane base gets £500m contracts 'to secure 6,700 jobs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

The SNP response - "this so called investment will directly support the deployment of Trident." Nothing and no amount of money will halt the whining and can only end if Scotland is pushed into independence despite the majority of Scots not wanting it.

I thought that was a really poor and ill-thought out response from the SNP.

[Edinburger]

Nick Grant said:

Edinburger said:

Let's focus on "Scotland is still there but is being spoiled by an idiotic group" - how? How are the SNP spoiling Scotland?

If they really wanted the best for Scotland after the referendum they should have made a statement along the lines of "The people of Scotland have decided that independence is not right for Scotland at this time, we now need to put aside our differences and work within the constraints we have to make Scotland the best it can be. Only by working together and uniting this great country can we achieve our potential. The time for uncertainty is over."

But they continue to divide the country in half, which can never be a good thing. If you don't think that is spoiling Scotland you must need psychiatric help.

I do agree that some SNP representatives (MPs, MSPs, councillors, etc.) are banging on about independence but many others seem to accept the outcome of the referendum and are moving on and focusing on what's important today.

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

technodup said:

recisely. Which doesn't explain why in a country of 5000000 it is given equal billing on every road sign north of Glasgow, every train station in the country and on vanity exercises such as police helicopters.

And I'd wager at least half of that 87k don't speak it regularly, more that they know how to if they had to. As your map shows, outside of the western isles it's dead.

And for what it's worth I don't agree with having other languages on literature or signage either. Learn English, get someone to help or leave. Don't expect us to pay for people's inadequacies.

Wales is different it's language has been strong and used heavily throughout Wales all the time - it's been compulsory in schools for decades too (aim from North Wales and pre com pulsar you had no option you would have to learn it).

Now if Scotland SNP made Gaelic compulsory first then rolled out the sign change I'd say that's fair enough but a food ball ground full of people who can speak it/ some will be fluent some might have been told a word or two decades ago and no idea now how it's spoken are within that 87k. Regardless it's a very small number. A very small town at best

Never go to Northern Ireland then because you'll see many things in English, Irish and Ulster Scots.

[Edinburger]

///ajd said:

there are so many examples here of how the snp is ruining scotland

the car loan scheme, if additional to the uk grant, is just pointlessly giving away money to people who can afford £30-50k cars anyway. How dare they utter a friggin word about foodbanks? The UK grant already provides some (effectively) VAT relief, why is the SNP setting aside additional hard cash to loan out? its gesture nonsense, but the real hypocrisy is that it is NOT going to the most needy. And the reason for that is covered here and truely shameful.

it is interesting how you cannot see it. it feels increasingly like showing actual real fossils to a creationist to discuss why the earth is older than 6000 years. but it does not matter what evidence is provided, they will always believe the earth is only 6000 years old (or that some vow has been broken/its westminsters fault).

Edited by ///ajd on Monday 31st August 08:46

Why is it foolish? We have targets to reach on emmissions and we have slow uptake of electric cars so this low-cost initiative can perhaps crack both nuts to an extent. It's kick starting attitude changes. I suspect you have a rather naiive view of domestic finances too.