Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
Garvin said:
Edinburger said:
If we believe that EVs are the way forward and if a government offers financial benefits (interest free loans in this case) to people prepared to move from ICEs to EVs then yes that's progressive.
Do you disagree?
Progressive in politics usually means, in crude terms, soaking the rich to help the poor. This policy, therefore, does not meet this definition of 'progressive' at all. It is almost the opposite in not helping the poor one iota just helping the better off!Do you disagree?
Other definitions of 'progressive' in a political sense are more vague but seem to revolve around policies which engender reform for the better. It is not obvious that a move to EVs is 'for the better'. When the electricity generating capacity of a country, as in the UK, is marginal (less than 5% margin IIRC) then it isn't obviously progressive to put more strain on it. Couple that with the cost of additional generating capacity, particularly the 'green' type, then it sort of cuts across the former definition of 'progressive' as the cost of energy might well have to increase for the less well off. Increasing the use of fossil fuel and/or nuclear generation may well be cheaper but then that cuts across other 'environmental' policies.
In short, there is some evidence that this is not progressive under any definition of the word.
Look at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
Mojocvh said:
Edinburger said:
Mojocvh said:
Edinburger said:
Mojocvh said:
Edinburger said:
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
NoNeed said:
A post from Facebook (United Against Separation) that shows how the SNP are politicising the police force
Text read..
This is our country, this is our police force, and this helicopter is paid for with our money. So I want to be able to read what it says on the side of it in my native mother tongue- being the primary language of this country, English.
It's this sort of nonsense from the SNP's policing wing, Police Scotland, which heightens concern the police service in Scotland has been politicised.
I have today emailed this photograph to Police Scotland demanding an explanation as to why a dead language only a tiny minority of people speaks is slapped on the side of this helicopter instead of the language you and I use and understand.
And I would encourage you to do likewise. The only way we are going to stop this nationalist nonsense is to stand up and speak up.
The word 'police' which you crave to read is easily seen on the helicopter. Text read..
This is our country, this is our police force, and this helicopter is paid for with our money. So I want to be able to read what it says on the side of it in my native mother tongue- being the primary language of this country, English.
It's this sort of nonsense from the SNP's policing wing, Police Scotland, which heightens concern the police service in Scotland has been politicised.
I have today emailed this photograph to Police Scotland demanding an explanation as to why a dead language only a tiny minority of people speaks is slapped on the side of this helicopter instead of the language you and I use and understand.
And I would encourage you to do likewise. The only way we are going to stop this nationalist nonsense is to stand up and speak up.
Edited by NoNeed on Sunday 30th August 18:40
Like it or not, there are Gaelic speakers in some parts of Scotland.
All over the UK there's evidence of things many of us disagree with.
I would wager.... less than 2.
Another vanity project.
Total arse gravy waste of money.
Or signs, leaflets, etc., in various foreign languages all across the UK?
Why should my council taxes be spent on people who refuse to learn the national language and fail to integrate in the slightest?
Why should my taxes be spent on translators for people who come to the UK with absolutely no idea or intent to speak English?
The list is endless, as is you and your ilk's ideas of wasting our money on vanity projects, whilst the disabled are being persecuted by this government to save money.
f
k off!f
k off!!Edited by Mojocvh on Monday 31st August 19:05
then again, you really were never sure of much, were you Mr yes no yes....
Or is it a case of if you can't win a debate just try personal criticisms?
Yes, I did deliberate over my vote in the refeerendum if that's what your 'dig' is at. I'm in now way ashamed of giving such an important decision a lot of thought.
NoNeed said:
Mojocvh said:
Really? Are you that cloistered in your nat enclave you just cannot, cannot see what is being done to the Scottish Nation?
then again, you really were never sure of much, were you Mr yes no yes....
Perhaps a picture will help him understandthen again, you really were never sure of much, were you Mr yes no yes....
Edinburger said:
It's not "funding teslas". It's an economically attractive initiative to encourage people to consider switching to electric vehicles. Some people may consider a Renault Twizzy (from £6,895) but that's not an extreme enough headline for you.
Twizzys are even more frivolous than Teslas. They are mobility scooters from a car manufacturer. The poor weather protection makes them, at best, a third or fourth car. You sometimes really don't help yourself.
r11co said:
Oh, and seeing as you were asking earlier 'burger (I am going to rename you Ostrich as you must have had your head buried to miss this particular news story)....
Welcome to Penis Island.
No longer Penis Island.
Note - I intentionally posted links from a New York newspaper and an IT news site so that Strocky would not dismiss the reports as right-wing English propaganda sources.
Now, that is funny Welcome to Penis Island.
No longer Penis Island.
Note - I intentionally posted links from a New York newspaper and an IT news site so that Strocky would not dismiss the reports as right-wing English propaganda sources.
PS No I don't follow every single news story so I didn't see that before
Troubleatmill said:
The only reason you would do this - is to try to create a new identity separate from the rest of the UK.
How many of the 1% of Gaelic speakers do not understand a word of English?
I do understand why you want to keep a dying language alive.
And money and resources should be spent to ensure it continues and thrives.
But 30% of BBC Scotland budget - and £26 million on road signs.
I can't help but think, the money would be better spent in classrooms in the highlands ( where Gaelic originates [it was never a lowlander language] )
Edinburger said:
That's a very subjective viewpoint.
Look at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
NoLook at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
NoNeed said:
The SNP record should be under the spotlight.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-...
From the better together facebook page.
Today's Financial Times editorial asks some pretty sobering questions regarding the SNPs record in office. Worth a read!
"Next May, the people of Scotland will vote in elections for the Holyrood parliament. If the polls are anything to go by, the Scottish National party is set to return to power with a bigger majority than it currently enjoys. The SNP gained 56 out of 59 Scottish seats in the UK election this year and is now backed by 60 per cent of Scots. The level of support is puzzling, however, given how poorly the SNP has performed in government since 2011.
Despite losing last year’s independence referendum, the SNP has kept a relentless focus on constitutional issues and the demand for extra devolution. In recent days it has been beating the nationalist drum by calling for a radically devolved BBC and the promotion of the Scots language. Chancellor George Osborne made an attempt during a visit on Monday to put the SNP on the spot, challenging its opposition to Britain’s Scotland-based nuclear deterrent by promising more investment and jobs at the Faslane nuclear submarine port and hailing a £3bn North Sea gas project spurred by UK-level tax breaks. But the SNP needs to be held to account for how it has performed in the major areas under its control — health, education, universities and the police. Here, its competence has been questionable to say the least.
When the Scottish parliament was created in 1999, Scotland spent a higher share of its budget on health and education than England. In government, the SNP has allowed spending in these areas to decline as a proportion of overall expenditure while increasing the money that goes on culture, transport, economic development and free personal care for the elderly. This shift is something Scots can ill-afford.
On health, waiting times for outpatients have shot up in the past two years. The number waiting more than 12 weeks to be seen has more than doubled. The share of accident and emergency patients treated within four hours has trended downwards since 2011. This worsening of health outcomes coincides with a total rejection by the SNP of all choice and competition by NHS providers.
In education, Scotland is seeing a real terms cut in spending on schools that is worrying. The most recent numeracy and literacy statistics show that a declining share of Scottish pupils was assessed as performing “well” or “very well”. The SNP’s totemic policy of abolishing university tuition fees, levied at up to £9,000 south of the border, is also flawed. The policy ends up supporting all students, including the affluent. Yet the cost is being met, in part, by cutting maintenance support for students who are less well off. As a result, access to universities has barely increased for poorer Scots since fees were scrapped.
The SNP’s tendency for statism is alarming. A bill going through Holyrood would reduce the autonomy of Scotland’s university leaders. Of particular concern, however, is the centralisation of the eight regional police forces to form Police Scotland. This has imposed Glasgow-style policing across the country with high rates of street searches and the use of armed police to respond to routine incidents. Growing public disquiet on this led to the resignation last week of Police Scotland’s chief constable.
The SNP’s success is much due to its prowess as a political machine. First Minister Nicola Sturgeon and her predecessor Alex Salmond are among the UK’s most capable politicians. But leaders must ultimately be judged by how they govern. Many Scots remain entranced by the SNP. But as next year’s elections approach, the Scots should look beneath the fog and flag and start asking themselves what precisely the SNP has achieved in office."
I've never said the SNP Government are perfect but an article like that which selects views on negative points could be written about any government.http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-...
From the better together facebook page.
Today's Financial Times editorial asks some pretty sobering questions regarding the SNPs record in office. Worth a read!
"Next May, the people of Scotland will vote in elections for the Holyrood parliament. If the polls are anything to go by, the Scottish National party is set to return to power with a bigger majority than it currently enjoys. The SNP gained 56 out of 59 Scottish seats in the UK election this year and is now backed by 60 per cent of Scots. The level of support is puzzling, however, given how poorly the SNP has performed in government since 2011.
Despite losing last year’s independence referendum, the SNP has kept a relentless focus on constitutional issues and the demand for extra devolution. In recent days it has been beating the nationalist drum by calling for a radically devolved BBC and the promotion of the Scots language. Chancellor George Osborne made an attempt during a visit on Monday to put the SNP on the spot, challenging its opposition to Britain’s Scotland-based nuclear deterrent by promising more investment and jobs at the Faslane nuclear submarine port and hailing a £3bn North Sea gas project spurred by UK-level tax breaks. But the SNP needs to be held to account for how it has performed in the major areas under its control — health, education, universities and the police. Here, its competence has been questionable to say the least.
When the Scottish parliament was created in 1999, Scotland spent a higher share of its budget on health and education than England. In government, the SNP has allowed spending in these areas to decline as a proportion of overall expenditure while increasing the money that goes on culture, transport, economic development and free personal care for the elderly. This shift is something Scots can ill-afford.
On health, waiting times for outpatients have shot up in the past two years. The number waiting more than 12 weeks to be seen has more than doubled. The share of accident and emergency patients treated within four hours has trended downwards since 2011. This worsening of health outcomes coincides with a total rejection by the SNP of all choice and competition by NHS providers.
In education, Scotland is seeing a real terms cut in spending on schools that is worrying. The most recent numeracy and literacy statistics show that a declining share of Scottish pupils was assessed as performing “well” or “very well”. The SNP’s totemic policy of abolishing university tuition fees, levied at up to £9,000 south of the border, is also flawed. The policy ends up supporting all students, including the affluent. Yet the cost is being met, in part, by cutting maintenance support for students who are less well off. As a result, access to universities has barely increased for poorer Scots since fees were scrapped.
The SNP’s tendency for statism is alarming. A bill going through Holyrood would reduce the autonomy of Scotland’s university leaders. Of particular concern, however, is the centralisation of the eight regional police forces to form Police Scotland. This has imposed Glasgow-style policing across the country with high rates of street searches and the use of armed police to respond to routine incidents. Growing public disquiet on this led to the resignation last week of Police Scotland’s chief constable.
The SNP’s success is much due to its prowess as a political machine. First Minister Nicola Sturgeon and her predecessor Alex Salmond are among the UK’s most capable politicians. But leaders must ultimately be judged by how they govern. Many Scots remain entranced by the SNP. But as next year’s elections approach, the Scots should look beneath the fog and flag and start asking themselves what precisely the SNP has achieved in office."
gwm said:
But how do you get ardent SNP supporters to believe anything like the FT piece? My mind boggles that the SNP have such strong support, you'd think they would have fallen out of favour by now. But lack of a "socialist" alternative means I can see them doing very well next May and we have more of the same independence rhetoric.
Having decent opposition parties and opposition representatives would be a good start.Edinburger said:
That's a very subjective viewpoint.
Look at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
None of the 50 worst hot spots for air pollution are in Scotland (they are all in London). Number of days when Scottish cities had dangerous air pollution? 0. Number in England? 32 (2013 data). Look at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
]..NoNeed said:
gwm said:
But how do you get ardent SNP supporters to believe anything like the FT piece? My mind boggles that the SNP have such strong support, you'd think they would have fallen out of favour by now. But lack of a "socialist" alternative means I can see them doing very well next May and we have more of the same independence rhetoric.
They are using the same tactic as the germans did in the thirties by constantly critising everything Uk and praising promoting and massaging the ego of everyone and everthing Scotish they are effectively making their voters actually believe that they are better more superior.Why should a pure ayrian have to follow an instruction from a jew.
why should a pure Scot (SNP follower) have to follow an instruction from the English.
It is the same tactics and in time will lead to the same place as every single bad thing in Scotland is blame on those down south while everything good is Just Scottish.
AstonZagato said:
Edinburger said:
It's not "funding teslas". It's an economically attractive initiative to encourage people to consider switching to electric vehicles. Some people may consider a Renault Twizzy (from £6,895) but that's not an extreme enough headline for you.
Twizzys are even more frivolous than Teslas. They are mobility scooters from a car manufacturer. The poor weather protection makes them, at best, a third or fourth car. You sometimes really don't help yourself.
AstonZagato said:
Edinburger said:
That's a very subjective viewpoint.
Look at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
NoLook at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
Do you think the use of petrol and diesel is sustainable and a good idea?
AstonZagato said:
Edinburger said:
That's a very subjective viewpoint.
Look at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
None of the 50 worst hot spots for air pollution are in Scotland (they are all in London). Number of days when Scottish cities had dangerous air pollution? 0. Number in England? 32 (2013 data). Look at it from another point of view - less ICEs on the road will give better air quality in areas troubled by air pollution which will help people with respiratory problems. Some cities are even considering banning diesel vehicles.
Isn't encouraging a switch to EVs a good idea?
Edinburger said:
AstonZagato said:
Edinburger said:
It's not "funding teslas". It's an economically attractive initiative to encourage people to consider switching to electric vehicles. Some people may consider a Renault Twizzy (from £6,895) but that's not an extreme enough headline for you.
Twizzys are even more frivolous than Teslas. They are mobility scooters from a car manufacturer. The poor weather protection makes them, at best, a third or fourth car. You sometimes really don't help yourself.
Welshbeef said:
Edinburger said:
Having decent opposition parties and opposition representatives would be a good start.
Exactly so in Holyrood May 2016 we need a solid opposition with high numbers not to will be criminal Surely the main Westminster parties see that?
///ajd said:
Edinburger said:
AstonZagato said:
Edinburger said:
It's not "funding teslas". It's an economically attractive initiative to encourage people to consider switching to electric vehicles. Some people may consider a Renault Twizzy (from £6,895) but that's not an extreme enough headline for you.
Twizzys are even more frivolous than Teslas. They are mobility scooters from a car manufacturer. The poor weather protection makes them, at best, a third or fourth car. You sometimes really don't help yourself.
Jeez, this is like the discussion which may have been had by two apes 12 million years ago about whether or not they should jump out of the trees and try to walk upright.
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