Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[Strocky]

NoNeed said:

It matters not one jot if it is a unionist party or a sepratist one, what matters is it is wrong, and idiots like you that will try and defend the Scottish Nazi party no matter what they do just make you look stupid.

What's wrong is wrong and what's right is right wearing a different colour rosette does nothing to change that, nothing at all.


Also saying that the real tories welcoming acytions from the tartan tories is some sort of legitimate validation when all you ever do is slag off the real tories also makes you look stupid.

Edited by NoNeed on Thursday 3rd September 13:24

I've criticised the SNP where I think it's merited, however there is an undercurrent from a few on here that no matter what decisions are made in Holyrood, it's wrong no matter what

And you can you give the Nazi crap a rest (or make it you signature), you're coming across as a tad ranty and repetitive

Also making absolute statements and calling posters idiot's tends to negate your point

Edited by Strocky on Thursday 3rd September 13:41

[Strocky]

r11co said:

Take the 'unionist' part out for a minute Strocky as it is clouding your judgement, unless of course you back the "MacAskill principle" that harmful and damaging policy is justified in the pursuit of independence. That being the case stop debating policy as like the SNP you will swivel and turn whatever way that suits - you argue from no position other than disruption.

I'm arguing from a position that Scotland should raise all it's own finances and makes all it's own decisions be it economic, militarily or socially and you argue that we're better off being part of a Union

[r11co]

Strocky said:

you argue that we're better off being part of a Union

WRONG!

Check my post from a page or two back. I am arguing that the SNP are unfit to govern because their stated aim is not governance, and their growing record of failure when pressed to the task is evidence of this.

If the case for independence is a good one it will stand on its own two feet and not require to be achieved through dischord. To gain independence by pissing enough people off that they want rid of you, and by dividing the populace of a potential nation irretrievably is not a future I want to be a part of as the world has to continue once that independence is achieved and neither of these is a footing to be starting from.

Plus, if the SNP are really pursuing just independence and not, as a consequence of achieving it, seeking their own glorification and entrenchment of power then they should add to clause 2.(a) of their constitution a statement that they will disband the instant Scottish independence is achieved, having served their purpose.

I'm against the SNP. Independence is moot.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 3rd September 17:26

[Greedydog]

Strocky said:

I'm arguing from a position that Scotland should raise all it's own finances and makes all it's own decisions be it economic, militarily or socially and you argue that we're better off being part of a Union

And I asked a week or so ago just how the populace of an independent Scotland would be better off with a failing/bankrupt economy but you and your ilk don't seem to want to address the big questions. So go on, what decisions could be made to balance the books? Maybe we could make the military decision to invade somewhere with some cash? Or we could maybe make a social decision remove to the welfare state?

[Garvin]

Strocky said:

. . . . . . . . calling posters idiot's tends to negate your point

It doesn't negate the point however I agree that posters should not abuse one another with detrimental terms. I rather think that what a poster writes in black or white themselves advertises their intellectual capability to the world at large much better than another poster trying to point it out!

[r11co]

Greedydog said:

And I asked a week or so ago just how the populace of an independent Scotland would be better off with a failing/bankrupt economy.

But it isn't going to fail is it. That's just scaremongering, 'scaremongering' being the stock phrase used by a pressure group masquerading as a political party in response to any complex issue, as they lack the wherewithal or impetus to propose an alternative scenario or plan. This was the SNP of the Salmond era - a short term tactic designed to get them over the line and worry about the consequences aferwards. Again, not something I want to be a part of.

One thing the White Paper was noticeably short on was 'nuts and bolts' proposals, such as how Scotland's legislature would look after independence (as I said before - the 'checks and balances' built in to every truly democratic government). Even some re-assurances that the SNP had thought that far ahead would have gone a long way to persuade thinking people that the case for independence was practical. So much of what was being proferred was a 'pig-in-a-poke' - 'trust us and we'll sort out the details after you have handed us the mandate'.

History shows that independence gained on that basis is usually followed by civil unrest, as the 'liberators' and their supporters mistakenly believe that they have been granted the divine right to govern and set the agenda for as long as they deem fit rather than stand down and begin afresh with an agreed agenda for transition.

As I said, some re-assurances from the SNP that this is not their intention would not damage the cause of independence one bit, on the contrary it would help it immeasurably. Their reluctance to do so though is cynical as it would put a shelf-life on their relevance and power, so one has to ask where their priorities lie.

Instead, what re-assurances they have given have proved to be vacuous, having stated before the referendum that they would respect the outcome, that the matter would be settled 'for a generation' and that they would work to reconcile the divisions, none of which they have done, so my trust in them is zero.

You will now of course invoke 'the vow', but regardless of its veracity and anyone's interpretation of it, the White Paper was, on the other hand, exactly that - committed to paper and immutable, and it, with its lacking both clarity and a roadmap for independence, came first.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 3rd September 16:21

[AC43]

Strocky said:

AC43 said:

Or maybe some of the walking coranaries in Glasgow could just drink less booze, cut back on the Irn Bru and give up the fags, sweets, chips and fried food.

Nothing like a sweeping generalism to make you fell better about yourself, Joe Atlas

Stats, mate, stats

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/apr/...

[AC43]

More stats

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27309446

And more

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/jan/21/hea...

[NoNeed]

AC43 said:

Strocky said:

AC43 said:

Or maybe some of the walking coranaries in Glasgow could just drink less booze, cut back on the Irn Bru and give up the fags, sweets, chips and fried food.

Nothing like a sweeping generalism to make you fell better about yourself, Joe Atlas

Stats, mate, stats

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/apr/...

He wont let stats get in the way of his prejudice, he'll just find a way of blaming the Englaish or the Jews.

[AstonZagato]

NoNeed said:

AC43 said:

Strocky said:

AC43 said:

Or maybe some of the walking coranaries in Glasgow could just drink less booze, cut back on the Irn Bru and give up the fags, sweets, chips and fried food.

Nothing like a sweeping generalism to make you fell better about yourself, Joe Atlas

Stats, mate, stats

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/apr/...

He wont let stats get in the way of his prejudice, he'll just find a way of blaming the Englaish or the Jews.

Steady on, chap. No need for that.

[Borghetto]

That BBC magazine article was very interesting AC43. Unsurprisingly near the end the SNP "Health" minister and fully paid up plonker Neil, put his finger on the cause of all this alcoholism and high mortality in Glasgow - it was Thatcher's fault - well who'd have thunk it.

[Welshbeef]

Borghetto said:

That BBC magazine article was very interesting AC43. Unsurprisingly near the end the SNP "Health" minister and fully paid up plonker Neil, put his finger on the cause of all this alcoholism and high mortality in Glasgow - it was Thatcher's fault - well who'd have thunk it.

No it wasn't it was Julious Ceaser

[r11co]

Borghetto said:

That BBC magazine article was very interesting AC43. Unsurprisingly near the end the SNP "Health" minister and fully paid up plonker Neil, put his finger on the cause of all this alcoholism and high mortality in Glasgow - it was Thatcher's fault - well who'd have thunk it.

This really is a gem of SNP verbal diarrhoea

BBC said:

Scotland's health minister Alex Neil accused Margaret Thatcher of driving the Scots to drink and drugs by destroying heavy industry back in the 1980s.

Anyone who has heard Billy Connelly's (as someone who, unlike career politician Mr Neil, actually worked in the shipyards) casual vomit story will know that habitual drinking was a common occurrence even when heavy industry in Glasgow was in its heyday.

[Gecko1978]

Strocky said:

Gecko1978 said:

The sad thing about the film was even the true scottish victories were fictionalised (the wooden spears at stirling) but hey it gave the face painters an icon.....a foreign, antisemitic, alcoholic one...who I think was actually born in the USA.

While I am not english (I am welsh as it happens) my cleaners at Stirling used to ask me if I remembered Bannockburn (I have a southern accent having lived near london since I was 11).

Now at first I had no idea what the two hags were gabbling on about in part because I was not then fluent in Jockaniese, I mean who is this Ken fellow they spoke of so often where did he live (or stay to use the local lingo). Once I had got over the language barrier, and was able to converse with the pair of snaggle tooth's, I was able to retort that while I knew bannockburn was a popular tail I had, I felt, more affinity to Culloden.

Alas a friendship was never to blossom.

Just sounds like one that met two s

While my post was tongue in cheek it does highlight the casual racism that is prolific in Scotland. Do you think as an 18 year old student from London I knew what the fk they were on about until I looked it up. Really the we hate the English st I encountered at uni was a revelation. Frankly it was maybe 1 in 10 people but they really did have a massive chip on there shoulders about the whole English Scottish thing

[Troubleatmill]

Strocky said:

Troubleatmill said:

SNP goes for standardised testing in Primary Schools.

I expect this to go well.

The Scottish Tories congratulated the SNP on the U-Turn

I expect they would.


I believe standardised testing is a great idea. It isn't an idea that left, left of centre parties are comfortable with.

For me - It helps identify what schools, kids, teachers need more help to get up to an acceptable standard.

[Axionknight]

Gecko1978 said:

While my post was tongue in cheek it does highlight the casual racism that is prolific in Scotland. Do you think as an 18 year old student from London I knew what the fk they were on about until I looked it up. Really the we hate the English st I encountered at uni was a revelation. Frankly it was maybe 1 in 10 people but they really did have a massive chip on there shoulders about the whole English Scottish thing

Little man nation syndrome, IMO, having lived here for five years, you never hear the end of the Scotland v England thing - a lot of it is light hearted and I give as good as I get but some really do get agitated about it, especially when you tell them that nobody south of the border really pays Scotland any mind at all, lest they're heading up here for a holiday, anyway.

[NoNeed]

AstonZagato said:

Steady on, chap. No need for that.

Actually hatred of Jews and israel is actually very common among the YES croud, only last night I was in n online debate where David Cameron was being blamed for the little boy drowning and I pointe out that David Cameron wanted to tackle the problem at source a few years back by bombing ISIS and was prevente from doing so in Parliament. The reply came that if he wanted to tackle at source he would bomb Israel and the Jews as they are the cause of all the unrest in the middle east.


The SNP also banned Jewish literature a few years ago.

[Edinburger]

Strocky said:

I've criticised the SNP where I think it's merited, however there is an undercurrent from a few on here that no matter what decisions are made in Holyrood, it's wrong no matter what

And you can you give the Nazi crap a rest (or make it you signature), you're coming across as a tad ranty and repetitive

Also making absolute statements and calling posters idiot's tends to negate your point

Edited by Strocky on Thursday 3rd September 13:41

I agree 100% - well said.

I've just read the past few pages and can someone please clarify something for me? You lot (who think you know best) seem to call the SNP socialists, communists, nationalists, national socialists and 'tartan Tories'.

Those are quite different politician persuasions. Can anyone give us a definitive answer?

NoNuts - you might find it in tomorrow's Google Alerts

[Axionknight]

NoNeed said:

Actually hatred of Jews and israel is actually very common among the YES croud, only last night I was in n online debate where David Cameron was being blamed for the little boy drowning and I pointe out that David Cameron wanted to tackle the problem at source a few years back by bombing ISIS and was prevente from doing so in Parliament. The reply came that if he wanted to tackle at source he would bomb Israel and the Jews as they are the cause of all the unrest in the middle east.


The SNP also banned Jewish literature a few years ago.

Surely not?

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

So minimum unit pricing really has hit the buffers.

EU rules anti trade.

So unless Scotland use tax rising powers to do it - imagine the cost in doing that... It simply will not happen.


Westminster stopped this years ago / realised it simply wasn't possible.




Grrr nasty EU telling us what we can or cannot do FREEDOM - Westminster are to blame look squirrel.

The advocate general said that the policy can be implemented if it is shown to be the most effective public health measure available.