Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[NoNeed]

Strocky said:

NoNeed said:

Isn't that what you and your nat friends wanted to say to the UK when they thought the oil had value.

Oil "had" value and the UK said thanks

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-indep...

In the early ddays we baile dyou out and then supported you for 260 years.

It is the nats that made a big thing about the oil and how good life would be if you kept it to yourselves despite the UK helping Scotland become a great nation from a bankrupt wreck.

[r11co]

Strocky said:

Will pick you up on a couple of things if I may, not every-bodies God is money, some folks get as much satisfaction out of volunteering as earning a 6 figure bonus for knowing how to defraud a spreadsheet.

You were doing well there, right until the point where you couldn't help yourself and had to denigrate the idea of an honest wage. There are just as many financial institutions in Edinburgh as London, and more tradesmen in London than the whole of Scotland. Your generalisations are as insulting to the common man down south as they are ignorant.

Strocky said:

London isn't the be all and end all for earning, the extra you get is quickly gobbled up in rent/costs, you can easily have a better quality of life/spending power in other parts of the country

Somehow I suspect you are justifying your lack of ambition rather than talking from a position of experience after making a choice.

Strocky said:

The UK has very diverse regional nuances that appear (to me) to be diluted by the macroeconomics of the "city"

I think you read that in a book.

[Strocky]

NoNeed said:

In the early ddays we baile dyou out and then supported you for 260 years.

It is the nats that made a big thing about the oil and how good life would be if you kept it to yourselves despite the UK helping Scotland become a great nation from a bankrupt wreck.

I suggest you do some research re the Spanish & English royalty during that period

However I return to the age old conundrum, if Scotland's such a drain on the UK, why is the Union so important to be retained?

[Borghetto]

I'm trying to figure whether Strocky is just a Scots Nationalist bigot, or a 12 year old child who's parents think he is just trawling porn in his bedroom. If he represents SNP opinion, then can we not send him and his slimy ilk to the Western Isles and just deal with the Scots adults.

[r11co]

Strocky said:

However I return to the age old conundrum, if Scotland's such a drain on the UK, why is the Union so important to be retained?

Because if Scotland does achieve independence it will begin as a nation with a populace divided and a government believing it has been given a divine mandate to remain in power ad-infinitum, and a support that believes it has the right to persecute those who resisted separation - a recipe for civil unrest and possibly war, and no-one wants that on their doorstep.

Edited by r11co on Friday 4th September 23:33

[NoNeed]

Strocky said:

NoNeed said:

In the early ddays we baile dyou out and then supported you for 260 years.

It is the nats that made a big thing about the oil and how good life would be if you kept it to yourselves despite the UK helping Scotland become a great nation from a bankrupt wreck.

I suggest you do some research re the Spanish & English royalty during that period

However I return to the age old conundrum, if Scotland's such a drain on the UK, why is the Union so important to be retained?

Together we are strong, together we have achieved some amazing things that vcould not possibly have been done as small separate countries like defeating the Germans for a bold example. But even that came after the creation of a huge empire that improved the lives of many hundreds of millions and spread civilization around the globe.

[Rollin]

Strocky said:

s2art said:

Not interested in anything you consider 'education' thanks. They must have been treated quite well, otherwise why did they wish to stay on in the commonwealth?

How sad a closed mind, will give you a quick summary "thanks for helping us out when it suited, but why don't you go home?"

How many dominions are controlled by Westminster now since the 50s?

You're going to need a derogatory name for the Saltire.

"The British Empire was never wholly English, of course, or even predominantly so. Scotland had its own colonial enterprises before the Act of Union (1707), and afterwards arguably contributed more to their joint imperial project than its southern neighbour. Of course you don’t find the Scots celebrating this much now, as imperialism is no longer generally considered to have been A Good Thing and the idea that they were colonial victims seems a better card to play for a people striving (some of them) for national independence. Today’s academic Scottish historians, however, know that ‘it is far too simplistic to consider the British Celtic fringe (and Scotland in particular) as somehow in a quasi-colonial relationship with the central and dominant English power.

'Victimhood' and even 'collaboration' are ‘inaccurate and inadequate’ to describe it. As imperialists – whether you want to see them as benefactors or oppressors – the Scots always (as the editors of this volume put it, though acknowledging the cliche) ‘punched above their weight’.
"

http://www.historytoday.com/blog/2012/06/scotland-...

[Strocky]

r11co said:

............

Point 1

Considering London has a population bigger by 60% than Scotland in a concentrated area that's 50 times smaller thanks for proving my point beautifully

Point 2

I'm not one for boasting but being blessed with a loving family including two baby girls and the reality I could retire tomorrow if I so wished I'll pass on your version of paradise

Point 3

I'm not published yet, but thanks for review

[s2art]

Strocky said:

s2art said:

Not interested in anything you consider 'education' thanks. They must have been treated quite well, otherwise why did they wish to stay on in the commonwealth?

How sad a closed mind, will give you a quick summary "thanks for helping us out when it suited, but why don't you go home?"

How many dominions are controlled by Westminster now since the 50s?

Not sure of your point. The British Empire was, overall, a force for good. Of course once the locals had the benefit of Western European knowledge, education, infrastructure etc they wished, quite rightly, to have a go at governing themselves. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. There were many people who commented at the time that large tracts of Africa needed another generation before they were ready. Note that several ex-Empire countries had movements to re-enter the 'Empire' including Sierra Leone and a couple of Caribbean countries. Be that as it may, if we had treated them that badly they would not have joined the commonwealth, Indian academics now thank their stars that it was Britain that colonised India rather than anyone else.

[Strocky]

r11co said:

Because if Scotland does achieve independence it will begin as a nation with a populace divided and a government believing it has been given a divine mandate to remain in power ad-infinitum, and a support that believes it has the right to persecute those who resisted separation - a recipe for civil unrest and possibly war, and no-one wants that on their doorstep.

Edited by r11co on Friday 4th September 23:33

You're that orange grandmaster are you?

The supremacist chat is beginning to make sense

[Strocky]

s2art said:

Not sure of your point. The British Empire was, overall, a force for good. Of course once the locals had the benefit of Western European knowledge, education, infrastructure etc they wished, quite rightly, to have a go at governing themselves. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. There were many people who commented at the time that large tracts of Africa needed another generation before they were ready. Note that several ex-Empire countries had movements to re-enter the 'Empire' including Sierra Leone and a couple of Caribbean countries. Be that as it may, if we had treated them that badly they would not have joined the commonwealth, Indian academics now thank their stars that it was Britain that colonised India rather than anyone else.

Define "overall"

http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-...

[Strocky]

NoNeed said:

Together we are strong, together we have achieved some amazing things that vcould not possibly have been done as small separate countries like defeating the Germans for a bold example. But even that came after the creation of a huge empire that improved the lives of many hundreds of millions and spread civilization around the globe.

Are these examples of "spreading civilisation"?

http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-...

At least back in the day they had the courage of their convictions, nowadays migrants are "cockroaches" and Jeremy Corbyn supporters are "insurgents"

[r11co]

Strocky said:

You're that orange grandmaster are you?

Nice try, but so far from the truth it is unbelievable. It is interesting that on two occasions now you have tried to pigeonhole me in order to try and make it easier for you to dismiss my points ad hominem.

[Big Rod]

Strocky said:

Are these examples of "spreading civilisation"?

http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-...

At least back in the day they had the courage of their convictions, nowadays migrants are "cockroaches" and Jeremy Corbyn supporters are "insurgents"

Think 'foodbanks'!

[Strocky]

r11co said:

Nice try, but so far from the truth it is unbelievable. It is interesting that on two occasions now you have tried to pigeonhole me in order to try and make it easier for you to dismiss my points ad hominem.

How can I pidgeohole a gadgy that won't commit to anything?

Put your cards on the table ffs

[Strocky]

Big Rod said:

Think 'foodbanks'!

ste advertising, Saatchi & Saatchi ain't gonna to get paid for "go to work on a foodbank"

[r11co]

Strocky said:

How can I pidgeohole a gadgy that won't commit to anything?

Put your cards on the table ffs

Why should I pander to your prejudices or give you opportunity to re-inforce them? Address the points I am making rather than seeking to tackle the man.

Having said that, I made my stance clearly earlier but you must have missed it. I am against the SNP, mostly but not entirely because I have first-hand experience of how their id-wearing representatives on the street felt they were empowered to judge a complete stranger and verbally abuse them in public simply for not giving the response they were seeking, a behaviour symptomatic of an organisation that pursues a single aim through a process of division and dischord, while at the same time holding a position of power that it has stated it will abuse in order to achieve that single aim.

As I also said, I believe that if the case for independence is good then it will stand on its own merit and not require to be achieved through the ultra-negative politics of the SNP, and I do not believe that the consequences of their mismanagement of Scottish government while they remain perpetually on a campaign footing is a price worth paying for the result they seek.

Edited by r11co on Saturday 5th September 00:47

[Big Rod]

Strocky said:

Big Rod said:

Think 'foodbanks'!

ste advertising, Saatchi & Saatchi ain't gonna to get paid for "go to work on a foodbank"

Just keep the poor in the way they've been accustomed to and they'll follow you if you promise them riches.

It doesn't matter if you don't, can't or never intended to deliver as long as you can blame it on someone else.

[Ridgemont]

Strocky said:

Define "overall"

http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-...

Pretty insane list. You studied history Strock? Learnt to fact check or read actual historical analysis? As opposed to posting buzzfeedesque articles? That frankly is 75% bullst. The Bengal famine brainfart is a fking outrage of a comment (clue; look up Japan & Burma 1943). Similarly Kenya; please do spend some time reading up on the Mau Mau insurgency. Comparing it to Birkenau is offensive.
Won't comment on Trevelyan who frankly was a bit part player in the Irish famine. The stuff about Indian partition is just wrong (feel free to research Jinnah's role in that madness).

I could continue but I won't. It's this blatant misrepresentation about empire which fuels much anti Bristishness but which is based on factoids and propaganda. Learn to read your own history, Which includes 250 odd years of empire, which delivered the modern world. A vastly better place to the possible alternatives (I.e. Imagine Hitler knocked Britain out of the war in '40, or Napolean won the peninsula war, or Spain overthrew Elizabeth in 1588, and then applied the inquisition across a crushed Northern Europe). I could continue but I suspect you would miss the point.

Edited by Ridgemont on Saturday 5th September 00:31

[Borghetto]

Strocky said:

Point 2

I'm not one for boasting but being blessed with a loving family including two baby girls and the reality I could retire tomorrow if I so wished I'll pass on your version of paradise

From your posts you sound like a bit of a loser, but I guess amongst your fellow Nazis you probably look ordinary and self praise is meaningless. I expect your retirement plans include your unemployment benefit, if it wasn't for the fact that the majority of Scots aren't like you, I would happily say good riddance to bad rubbish. Oh btw YOU LOST THE REFERENDUM - suck it up sunshine.

You've clearly never ventured to London, which is one of the world's great cities. You should be proud of your country's capital.

Edited by Borghetto on Saturday 5th September 01:01