Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[fluffnik]

I'm too busy holidaying in Wales to type much on a phone, but...

http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/...

...might address some of the concerns expressed earlier.

I would also suggest that a wee look at WoS might be in order...

[r11co]

fluffnik said:

I'm too busy holidaying in Wales to type much on a phone, but...

http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/...

...might address some of the concerns expressed earlier.

I would also suggest that a wee look at WoS might be in order...

Haha!

Here's a wee counter to the 'nothing to see here' Nationalist propaganda...

SNPHellNo said:

Last year, Michelle Thomson emailed senior Business for Scotland figures with the message - "Not cc’ed in all the Board, but I got a cheque on Friday for £5000 which I shall bank on Monday. As a matter of interest, the meeting hadn’t been specifically about BFS, we have some shared business interests and BFS came up as a by-product".

Strange then that her lawyer, Mr Aamer Anwar (who also happens to be Ms Sturgeon's favourite lawyer, but to his credit, refused to stand as an SNP MP in Westminster because of his reluctance to " toeing the party line and speaking without fear or favour"), has recently said, "Michelle Thomson states that she has never been involved with Mr Rae in any form of business dealings...". So she either lied in her email to the Board of Business for Scotland, or lied to her lawyer. However, both Ms Thomson and Mr Rae acknowledge that he wrote a cheque for £5,000 and "donated" it to Business for Scotland, via Ms Thomson, their managing director, before, (under the instruction of Peter Murrell, chief executive of the SNP), she was stripped of her role as a paid consultant before last year's referendum.

Remember however, that Mr Murrell's wife, Nicola Sturgeon, (leader of the SNP and First Minister of Scotland) recently insisted she had no idea of Ms Thomson's business dealings and indeed was quoted as saying, "Michelle knows what she is doing, knows her area and knows about fairness, equality and prosperity. I say, bring it on Michelle". So we can only assume there is little or no communication between Mr Murrell and his wife in their respective roles as chief executive of the SNP and the leader of the SNP, which under any other circumstances could be accurately characterised as wretchedly pitiful mismanagement and dereliction of professional duty.

Interestingly, Mr Jamie Ray (the other party that Mr Anwar mentions), was an ex-SNP councillor who had previously been jailed for 15 months for...wait for it... mortgage and housing benefit fraud totalling £133,000 and had been found guilty of securing mortgages for friends and family by deception.

Regarding Ms Thomson's unambiguous "shared business interests" claim in her email, Mr Rae commented, "That is bullst, rubbish. I don’t know why she would write that".

What a quandary. Who are we to believe? Another fraudster (this time a convicted one) involved in Ms Thomson's questionable business practices, or Ms Thomson herself? I'd favour neither.

A Business for Scotland spokesperson said, "We can confirm that Business for Scotland did not receive the £5k donation referred to in the email".

Hmm. Cashback indeed, eh.

Business for Scotland - headed up by a small time property speculator of dubious morals, supported by a convicted fraudster and a dodgy solicitor, and stripped of her paid consultancy in the post by Peter Murrel for impropriety, yet his wife Nicola Sturgeon claims to have known nothing until reading about it in the papers a fortnight ago. Stinks like that stuff you are shovelling, fluff.

Even at a specious level the whole affair blows out the water the claim repeated by Edinburger ad nauseum that independence was backed by a high-powered group of businesspeople in the form of Business for Scotland.

Anyhoo, the peat worrier and WoS are effectively undermining Nicola Sturgeon's credibility with their attempts to clear Michelle Thomson - if Sturgeon was as confident as they are that Thomson has done no wrong then she would have backed Thomson to the hilt and not withdrawn the whip and expelled her from the party, although it is quite gratifying that the Nationalist mouthpieces have resorted to technical arguments and not the typical sanctimonious replies that are no longer available to them.

The one thing that the Michelle Thomson scandal has finally exposed is what all straight thinkers have always known - the SNP is just another Westminster party.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 8th October 19:54

[gwm]

A friend of a friend posted this on fb. Some people are just beyond help.

[hidetheelephants]

legzr1 said:

I do see they make some questionable (bordering on mad) decisions at times but reinstating a strategic rail link isn't one of them - the fact it's righting a Tory-led wrong from 1969 makes it all the better to many Scots.

More of a Labour wrong; Beeching may have been a Tory appointment but both he and the Torys were long gone by 1969.

The cant emerging about Michelle Thompson is remarkable; Dugdale blathering on about the exploitation of the vulnerable, presumably she would prefer the people in question to have gone broke and their homes repossessed by lenders? That would have been a much more egalitarian outcome. The rest of it just seems to be Jo Moore-style overcommunication.

[r11co]

hidetheelephants said:

The cant emerging about Michelle Thompson is remarkable; Dugdale blathering on about the exploitation of the vulnerable, presumably she would prefer the people in question to have gone broke and their homes repossessed by lenders?

Missing the point once again. If Thomson was able to flip the houses for 5-figure profits the same day then clearly her firm were deliberately undervaluing the properties.

Comical how the SNats are still trying to turn this one around to blame the opposition.

I state again - if what Thomson was doing was fair, legit and above board then why has she been ejected from the SNP party and Westminster machine? Why is her company wound down and website taken off-line?

Even if (unlikely as it is) no criminal proceedings occur she will not be welcomed back as she was already on a reprimand for activities discordant with the party line (which were hushed up as there was an election campaign on at the time).

Edited by r11co on Friday 9th October 01:59

[hidetheelephants]

r11co said:

Missing the point once again. If Thomson was able to flip the houses for 5-figure profits the same day then clearly her firm were deliberately undervaluing the properties.

How did she do that; she would have made an offer to the vendors and they accept or decline. No-one held a gun to their heads and presumably they prefered selling their homes to having them repossessed by creditors. The vendors would appear to have been 'motivated sellers', presumably with banks breathing down their necks, distress sales are usually below market value.

r11co said:

Comical how the SNats are still trying to turn this one around to blame the opposition.

I state again - if what Thomson was doing was fair, legit and above board then why has she been ejected from the SNP party and Westminster machine? Why is her company wound down and website taken off-line?

I'm not a nationalist, the government stinks and has been underachieving for 4 years, roll on 2016. On a local level the SNP shat all over the populace of my council area; they won power in 2012 elections, realised that there would have to be serious budget cuts and promptly committed political harikari, leaving us stuck back with the corrupt cronyism we had hoped to get rid of.

She resigned the whip because she's being investigated; that would happen with any MP or MSP, Nigel Evans resigned the whip when he was accused of rape, then resumed it again once he was acquitted. As for winding her company up I imagine it's become a poison chalice, particularly in view of her comments on how to be a property investor; however true they are the media made a meal of them.

[r11co]

hidetheelephants said:

As for winding her company up I imagine it's become a poison chalice, particularly in view of her comments on how to be a property investor; however true they are the media made a meal of them.

It is the last bastion of the guilty - to blame the media for publicising their wrong-doings and errors, as if getting caught was the sin and the catcher the sinner.

It is understandable though that world+dog has gone to town on this one as the levels of hubris are astonishing - the affair cuts right across everything the SNP claim to be, exposing their self-bestowed 'holier than thou' status as a sham.

They have no-one to blame but themselves (which is the biggest culture shock for them, and why morons like Pete Wishart MP have resorted to wholly inappropriate claims of sexism), especially as several within the party knew this was going on.

Edited by r11co on Friday 9th October 09:21

[Welshbeef]

Met a rather pleasant SNP supporter on the train out of London last night.

Actually one of the most obnoxious retarded individuals I've ever met. (Sadly he and his like tarnish). He seemed to want debate at the train bar and specifically the Indy of Scotland. He dismissed the settled will as it "woz lies" "we all know it was actually a yes but MI5 stopped it". He carried on for some time disturbing most and ended it singing Las Mavinas your losing them too liers.


I'm sure all countries have tools like him - he however was very smartly dressed and was packing a Rolex Seamaster

[fluffnik]

r11co said:

Missing the point once again. If Thomson was able to flip the houses for 5-figure profits the same day then clearly her firm were deliberately undervaluing the properties.

If you'd looked at the WoS analysis of all the various available and published figures it is far from certain that a five figure profit was made, nor is it certain that the property was turned over particularly quickly.

What is fairly certain is that all the press hyperbole will make any prosecution much more difficult should any criminality on MT's part be found.

[r11co]

fluffnik said:

If you'd looked at the WoS analysis of all the various available and published figures it is far from certain that a five figure profit was made, nor is it certain that the property was turned over particularly quickly.

The report from the tribunal into Christopher Hales is pretty much unequivocal with regards to these matters. The Land Register figures are also public. WoS is trying to spin limited information to suggest doubt on what is public record.

It is just a matter of joining the dots, and whether there is the impetus to do so. I suspect that the tax issue alone will cause the wheels to grind slowly into motion.

None of which of course changes the fact that Michelle Thomson was quietly stripped of her paid consultancy position at BfS by Peter Murrell, the timing and reasons for which remain clouded in mystery. It is not like the Sturgeons do not have form for protecting known criminals.

The SNP are hoping that this will go away, and it may just, but I will bet my (not ex. council right-to-buy scammed) house that Thomson will never regain her position in the SNP.

Edited by r11co on Friday 9th October 15:17

[Rollin]

Let me get this straight.... Her solicitor has been disbarred for illegal activity during several of her property deals? Is this correct?

Despite that, reverend stu prefers to slag of the home seller?

[hidetheelephants]

r11co said:

It is the last bastion of the guilty - to blame the media for publicising their wrong-doings and errors, as if getting caught was the sin and the catcher the sinner.

It is understandable though that world+dog has gone to town on this one as the levels of hubris are astonishing - the affair cuts right across everything the SNP claim to be, exposing their self-bestowed 'holier than thou' status as a sham.

Guilty(thus far) only in the context of not kneeling and genuflecting before the altar of leftier-than-thou-ness that the SNP have adopted for no reason I can discern. Why this is admirable or desirable is beyond me.

[r11co]

hidetheelephants said:

Guilty(thus far) only in the context of not kneeling and genuflecting before the altar of leftier-than-thou-ness that the SNP have adopted for no reason I can discern.

If you saw the bill-posters spread around my constituency leading up to the general election the reason would be obvious - for the SNP to sweep the board as categorically as they did they had to steal the clothes of the party that previously dominated Scottish politics, hence the 'Red Tory' narrative.

Seems that they've adopted all the traits of Scottish Labour though, including the cronyism and complacency, but with an added massive dose of hypocrisy.

[Axionknight]

r11co said:

If you saw the bill-posters spread around my constituency leading up to the general election the reason would be obvious - for the SNP to sweep the board as categorically as they did they had to steal the clothes of the party that previously dominated Scottish politics, hence the 'Red Tory' narrative.

Seems that they've adopted all the traits of Scottish Labour though, including the cronyism and complacency, but with an added massive dose of hypocrisy.

Are you saying that the breath of fresh air in Scottish politics that is the SNP is in fact no better and perhaps even worse than the other established parties, despite their supporters smear campaigns (of dubious honesty) against said rival parties?

SHURLEY SHOME MISTHAKE?

[hidetheelephants]

Axionknight said:

Are you saying that the breath of fresh air in Scottish politics that is the SNP is in fact no better and perhaps even worse than the other established parties, despite their supporters smear campaigns (of dubious honesty) against said rival parties?

Shirley a load of ropey 2nd hand pish dressed up in YES-branded tartan?

efa

[NoNeed]

Just visited our friend Gary Anderson Facebook page to see if the SNP/YES thug has had any anti-English rants lately and discovered he isn't happy about a few things.

Here's one. http://beta.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-accused...

Apparently the Scottish government shouldn't be privatising things.

[technodup]

They're not. AIUI they're dishing out contracts as per the EU rules compel them to.

That's the same EU they were insistent they were joining/would already be a member/will force another referendum to leave UK so they can join.

Consistency isn't their strong suit.

[r11co]

technodup said:

They're not. AIUI they're dishing out contracts as per the EU rules compel them to.

Kind of yes and kind of no. The services do have to go to tender, but the SNP are piss-poor at running the tendering process and putting the necessary obligations in place in the contracts to ensure that the services are maintained at the pre-existing level, to the extent that any old mob can come in and undercut the present providers by cutting corners.

Either that, or the bribes are now going in different direction.....

[technodup]

It's not something I can get excited about either way tbh.

But if it makes Gary mad then it must be a good thing.

[hidetheelephants]

r11co said:

Kind of yes and kind of no. The services do have to go to tender, but the SNP are piss-poor at running the tendering process and putting the necessary obligations in place in the contracts to ensure that the services are maintained at the pre-existing level, to the extent that any old mob can come in and undercut the present providers by cutting corners.

It's pisspoor tendering processes; my neck of the woods is served by a passenger ferry which is subsidised by SPT(what synergy exists between running buses and running ferries has never been explained, but I digress). For most of the existence of SPT under the behemoth that was Strathclyde Regional Council and for a decade and half afterward this service was run competently by a local marine contractor using vessels fit for the job. At the last tendering for the service in 2012* the incumbent was underbid by a local 'entrepreneur' with a record of bust companies and bad debts.

Originally promised a newly built ferry what eventually turned up was a tiny sightseeing boat from the Solent which only has covered accommodation for about half the contractually required capacity of 60-odd, so in 2015 passengers on the commuter runs in the morning or afternoon have to sit outside in a Scottish winter, something bus passengers have been spared for about 100 years. There's also the fact that this very small and shallow-draft vessel is simply not as seaworthy as its predecessors and very ordinary winter conditions can see the service cancelled; the previous vessels were well-known for continuing in conditions that tabloid newspapers would call 'heroic' but locals call 'blustery' or 'lively'. The service provided was awful in the first year because of mechanical breakdowns and a variety of MCA-related stoppages although it has improved since, but as perception rules all ferry usage is down and many locals feel they can't rely on the ferry to get to work/school/appointments anymore, a vicious circle which might ultimately end with no ferry at all

Most of these woes can be attributed to a tender which specified nothing about the vessel to be used beyond capacity and compliance with MCA rules; it could have had no covered accommodation at all and still comply. No-one tendering bus services specifies that the bus have covered accommodation because no-one makes charabancs anymore.

* This in itself was a rolling clusterfk as it was originally supposed to be tendered in 2010-11, but it was re-tendered because SPT arbitrarily decided that it must be cheaper, SPT lied about what was happening, lied about extra payments to the contractor, lied about non-existent cost savings and generally misbehaved but faced no discipline from Transport Scotland, the councils or the government.

TL;DR

Public transport dinosaur specifies tender poorly, ferry contractor takes the piss and the passengers suffer. All of which at first glance is peripheral to the SNP, but the letter-writing campaign precipitated by the ste service and tendering shenanigans extracted exactly no sts from the SNP government, the Transport Minister 'could not act'(bks; the SPT charter specifically says it has to obey lawful directives from ministers) as it was a local SPT matter and Sturgeon referred letters back to the minister.