Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
Today in Saltcoats there was a man shouting about privitisation of the nhs as a student nurse I was interested. When i got to speak to him he was very against privitisation it was then I noticied the republic of Scotland flag behind him he was something to do with the scottish socialists. Very displeased when I told him I voted conservative.
dabofoppo said:
Today in Saltcoats there was a man shouting about privitisation of the nhs as a student nurse I was interested. When i got to speak to him he was very against privitisation it was then I noticied the republic of Scotland flag behind him he was something to do with the scottish socialists. Very displeased when I told him I voted conservative.
As techno says above, the NHS will be privatised in some way as a result of TTIP forced upon us by Europe.NoNeed said:
As techno says above, the NHS will be privatised in some way as a result of TTIP forced upon us by Europe.
Unlike the Trots in Old-New-Labour and the pseudo Trots in the SNP (ie. the prostitute party - they will tell you they are whatever you want them to be) I don't actually think tendering these services is necessarily a bad thing. Unfortunately the SNP has a dearth of talent and ability when it comes to proper negotiation and governance of the processes because governing has never been their reason to exist and I don't think even they expected to be in post.If their best choice of business spokesperson was someone who it now transpires was investigated by the Serious and Organised Crime Agency 5 years ago, and their current party leader shielded known benefit fraudsters it tells you all you need to know.
The SNP's self-belief infinitely exceeds their abilities.
Edited by r11co on Sunday 11th October 10:42
andymadmak said:
The problem that many have with Nats (including you Edinburger) is just how slippery and dishonest it all is. Getting straight answers is like nailing jelly to the wall. The levels of obfuscation and deflection on display whenever anyone even gets close to a factual answer would stand SNP members in great stead should those activities ever become Olympic sports!
So some examples:
When questioned how Scotland would fund it's social largesse - 'Oil will never be below 100dollars per barrel".. But what if the price falls? (said the No camp) This was greeted by "Only the No camp could describe a major asset like North Sea Oil as a problem!" (despite that never having been the No camps position) - Do you see where the disconnect is there Burger? And now that it's 40 odd dollars the SNP answer morphs to "we were never reliant on oil anyway" (when plainly Scotland would be to a considerable degree) The obfuscation came with SNP members alluding to Westminster efforts to "cover up the existence of a secret giant oil field off the coast of Scotland" when in fact it had already been publicised!
How about Navy ship building? The Royal Navy, apart from in world war 2) has never ever built its main capital ships in foreign shipyards. The SNP response? "Oh yes they will, cos we say so. The Clyde is safe" No explanation as to why centuries of practice would be abandoned in favour of keeping Scotlands industry busy. No thought that perhaps yards in the rUK might lobby VERY strongly to get that work, and in doing so would certainly be pushing against an open door. Even when the rUK Government says no, the SNP just blindly asserted that RN building would continue. The predictable obfuscation came when the SNP pointed to the RFA oilers being built in Korea, completely ignoring the fact that these are not capital ships!
How about the currency? Surely you know by now that rUK is NOT going to, was never going to, will never agree to a currency Union? Yet the SNP blind assertion was that there would be a union. The obfuscation came with SNP claiming that the pound was theirs anyway, and that nobody could stop them using it. True enough on the last part, but it hardly dealt with the serious issue that underpinned the currency question - ability to borrow, lender of last resort etc.
How about the EU membership? Now, even you have to accept that Mr Salmond lied through his teeth when he claimed to have legal advice showing that Scotland would remain in the EU? The EU said no, those lawyers brave enough to speak said no, and the SNP still claimed yes. The obfuscation came when the SNP started making noises about it not being possible to strip Scottish people of their citizenship, and that the EU would not want to miss out on "oil rich, renewables rich, fish rich, whisky rich Scotland". This of course completely ignored the actual legal position but at least it played well with those people silly enough to believe it.
How about the banks moving the HQs? The No camp was proved right about this, but still the SNP obfuscated by first denying it and then claiming that moving the HQ was only a token thing and meant nothing. And now the obfuscation effort is in overdrive with Salmod releasing his infamous conspiracy video just recently! Has the man no shame?
How about that anti English violence thing? Evidence of bullying go English kids is dismissed as "just kids". Man gets stabbed outside a Scottish pub just for being English is dismissed as "an attack not related to him being English" despot his attackers making it VERY clear that it was precisely his nationality that motivated the attack. Cyber violence and bullying was also rife. Of course the obfuscation came from Mr Salmonds infamous squawking to the Police when a No campaigner shouted at him
How about the anti no levels of vitiol? Remember the disgraceful scenes when Jim Murphy tried to speak in public? The attack on Nigel Farage? The bullying and intimidation of Charles Kennedy? How about JK Rowling and any other public figure who dared to express a No view? How is that defensible? And how is it that those carrying out these attacks and this bullying have almost to a man and woman NOT been expelled from the SNP? I mean it's all very well muttering platitudes, but the SNP has simply not acted against these people committing these crimes? Why is that Burger?
Shall we talk about the Vow? You know, the one that has been delivered in full but which the SNP claimed was not, even before it had started its way through Parliament?
Even in your recent posts you refer to "all those business leaders and academics who supported independence". I bet you wrote that without even a trace of irony too. Academics I care not one jot for (they are the easiest people to buy off with the offer of a research grant) but your claim to "business leaders" made me laugh out loud. Are you referring to business for Scotland perchance? Or is there a secret squad of major business leaders waiting to espouse their support for Indy? I know from first hand experience that a number of high profile business leaders chose not to express an opinion during the referendum, but that was because they were no supporters, and they were told in no uncertain terms by SNP reps what would happen to their businesses post independence if they dared to express their opinion in the run up to the vote.
So please do list "all those business leaders" - I am fascinated to see who's on your list!
How about the "once in a lifetime pledge"? that has now turned into a Neverendum...
I could go on, and on, and on. There is simply not enough internet available to list all the examples of hypocrisy and double standards from the SNP and its odious supporters. And yet you still find ways to obfuscate, hide behind minor details, make ludicrous claims about NDAs when it all gets a bit close to you finally being nailed.
And all the while Scotland is being damaged. By people like you.
There never was any meaningful response to this from those convinced independence was a good idea, was there? So some examples:
When questioned how Scotland would fund it's social largesse - 'Oil will never be below 100dollars per barrel".. But what if the price falls? (said the No camp) This was greeted by "Only the No camp could describe a major asset like North Sea Oil as a problem!" (despite that never having been the No camps position) - Do you see where the disconnect is there Burger? And now that it's 40 odd dollars the SNP answer morphs to "we were never reliant on oil anyway" (when plainly Scotland would be to a considerable degree) The obfuscation came with SNP members alluding to Westminster efforts to "cover up the existence of a secret giant oil field off the coast of Scotland" when in fact it had already been publicised!
How about Navy ship building? The Royal Navy, apart from in world war 2) has never ever built its main capital ships in foreign shipyards. The SNP response? "Oh yes they will, cos we say so. The Clyde is safe" No explanation as to why centuries of practice would be abandoned in favour of keeping Scotlands industry busy. No thought that perhaps yards in the rUK might lobby VERY strongly to get that work, and in doing so would certainly be pushing against an open door. Even when the rUK Government says no, the SNP just blindly asserted that RN building would continue. The predictable obfuscation came when the SNP pointed to the RFA oilers being built in Korea, completely ignoring the fact that these are not capital ships!
How about the currency? Surely you know by now that rUK is NOT going to, was never going to, will never agree to a currency Union? Yet the SNP blind assertion was that there would be a union. The obfuscation came with SNP claiming that the pound was theirs anyway, and that nobody could stop them using it. True enough on the last part, but it hardly dealt with the serious issue that underpinned the currency question - ability to borrow, lender of last resort etc.
How about the EU membership? Now, even you have to accept that Mr Salmond lied through his teeth when he claimed to have legal advice showing that Scotland would remain in the EU? The EU said no, those lawyers brave enough to speak said no, and the SNP still claimed yes. The obfuscation came when the SNP started making noises about it not being possible to strip Scottish people of their citizenship, and that the EU would not want to miss out on "oil rich, renewables rich, fish rich, whisky rich Scotland". This of course completely ignored the actual legal position but at least it played well with those people silly enough to believe it.
How about the banks moving the HQs? The No camp was proved right about this, but still the SNP obfuscated by first denying it and then claiming that moving the HQ was only a token thing and meant nothing. And now the obfuscation effort is in overdrive with Salmod releasing his infamous conspiracy video just recently! Has the man no shame?
How about that anti English violence thing? Evidence of bullying go English kids is dismissed as "just kids". Man gets stabbed outside a Scottish pub just for being English is dismissed as "an attack not related to him being English" despot his attackers making it VERY clear that it was precisely his nationality that motivated the attack. Cyber violence and bullying was also rife. Of course the obfuscation came from Mr Salmonds infamous squawking to the Police when a No campaigner shouted at him
How about the anti no levels of vitiol? Remember the disgraceful scenes when Jim Murphy tried to speak in public? The attack on Nigel Farage? The bullying and intimidation of Charles Kennedy? How about JK Rowling and any other public figure who dared to express a No view? How is that defensible? And how is it that those carrying out these attacks and this bullying have almost to a man and woman NOT been expelled from the SNP? I mean it's all very well muttering platitudes, but the SNP has simply not acted against these people committing these crimes? Why is that Burger?
Shall we talk about the Vow? You know, the one that has been delivered in full but which the SNP claimed was not, even before it had started its way through Parliament?
Even in your recent posts you refer to "all those business leaders and academics who supported independence". I bet you wrote that without even a trace of irony too. Academics I care not one jot for (they are the easiest people to buy off with the offer of a research grant) but your claim to "business leaders" made me laugh out loud. Are you referring to business for Scotland perchance? Or is there a secret squad of major business leaders waiting to espouse their support for Indy? I know from first hand experience that a number of high profile business leaders chose not to express an opinion during the referendum, but that was because they were no supporters, and they were told in no uncertain terms by SNP reps what would happen to their businesses post independence if they dared to express their opinion in the run up to the vote.
So please do list "all those business leaders" - I am fascinated to see who's on your list!
How about the "once in a lifetime pledge"? that has now turned into a Neverendum...
I could go on, and on, and on. There is simply not enough internet available to list all the examples of hypocrisy and double standards from the SNP and its odious supporters. And yet you still find ways to obfuscate, hide behind minor details, make ludicrous claims about NDAs when it all gets a bit close to you finally being nailed.
And all the while Scotland is being damaged. By people like you.
I'm not sure he does; most of the media 'noise' is to do with the SNP's sudden lurch leftward, either in response to or to encourage the flood of disillusioned socialists joining them having torn up their Labour membership, and the new-labour-lite nature of a sizeable chunk of the party. The hard left and these centrist economic liberals are as oil and water, how you keep them both in the party and happy is not clear.
hidetheelephants said:
I'm not sure he does; most of the media 'noise' is to do with the SNP's sudden lurch leftward, either in response to or to encourage the flood of disillusioned socialists joining them having torn up their Labour membership, and the new-labour-lite nature of a sizeable chunk of the party. The hard left and these centrist economic liberals are as oil and water, how you keep them both in the party and happy is not clear.
But have they in actual fact lurched leftward, or is it simply their retoric which has moved? I think it's just the latter and they are still the Tartan Tories they always have been.hidetheelephants said:
I'm not sure he does; most of the media 'noise' is to do with the SNP's sudden lurch leftward, either in response to or to encourage the flood of disillusioned socialists joining them having torn up their Labour membership, and the new-labour-lite nature of a sizeable chunk of the party. The hard left and these centrist economic liberals are as oil and water, how you keep them both in the party and happy is not clear.
I'm not sure they thought that far ahead. The Salmondist politics of the SNP was all about getting the independence vote won by hook or by crook. Coming from the position of having no track record or political baggage the SNP could be everything to everyman, despite obvious irreconcilable conflicts - pull every sneaky trick and say whatever is required to get over the line and worry about the consequences afterwards.I really do think it was a go for broke strategy that, because it didn't go their way will gradually come back to haunt them as further SNP improprieties are uncovered that mark out 'the vow' furore as the massive red-herring it always was.
Welshbeef said:
Met a rather pleasant SNP supporter on the train out of London last night.
Actually one of the most obnoxious retarded individuals I've ever met. (Sadly he and his like tarnish). He seemed to want debate at the train bar and specifically the Indy of Scotland. He dismissed the settled will as it "woz lies" "we all know it was actually a yes but MI5 stopped it". He carried on for some time disturbing most and ended it singing Las Mavinas your losing them too liers.
I'm sure all countries have tools like him - he however was very smartly dressed and was packing a Rolex Seamaster
Reminds me of this which I spotted on twitter:Actually one of the most obnoxious retarded individuals I've ever met. (Sadly he and his like tarnish). He seemed to want debate at the train bar and specifically the Indy of Scotland. He dismissed the settled will as it "woz lies" "we all know it was actually a yes but MI5 stopped it". He carried on for some time disturbing most and ended it singing Las Mavinas your losing them too liers.
I'm sure all countries have tools like him - he however was very smartly dressed and was packing a Rolex Seamaster
ianrb said:
But have they in actual fact lurched leftward, or is it simply their retoric which has moved? I think it's just the latter and they are still the Tartan Tories they always have been.
There has been a move to the left in some policies since Sturgeon took over; the land reform bill isn't something that would have seen the light of day under Salmond and the police, child supervision, airgun control and several other issues demonstrate a new interest in forming a nanny state of a particularly ugly kind.hidetheelephants said:
ianrb said:
But have they in actual fact lurched leftward, or is it simply their retoric which has moved? I think it's just the latter and they are still the Tartan Tories they always have been.
There has been a move to the left in some policies since Sturgeon took over; the land reform bill isn't something that would have seen the light of day under Salmond and the police, child supervision, airgun control and several other issues demonstrate a new interest in forming a nanny state of a particularly ugly kind.BlackLabel said:
Reminds me of this which I spotted on twitter:
Only a ScotNat could figure Scotland sending it's Ebola victims to London is some sort of slight on Scotland. What a complete and utter f
ktard.He's obviously not thought about the consequences of an Ebola outbreak in an iScotland, as we clearly don't have the expertise/facilities to deal with one. Or is that another thing that rUK will just have to help us with/share. Like the currency, bank, army and all the rest?
NoNeed said:
Holy st. That whole "Named Person" thing - is it for real?!Scotland, WTF?! You need to vote those idiots out ASAFP, and possibly try a few for crimes against their constituents at the same time.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff