Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[SPS]

Anyone noticed that the Sturg has gone public at the conference stating that the SNP will not be looking to push another referendum for "freedom" as it's too soon.
Well there is that plus the slightly vexing issue of oil prices being in the tank lmao!

[Einion Yrth]

technodup said:

here was a nugget in Glasgow yesterday with a saltire out each back window. I just associate it now with the SNP, which shouldn't be the case.

The Union flag has for too long tended to be associated with the BNP, and similar; this should not be the case, either.

[r11co]

TheRainMaker said:

Not wanting to stir anything up here, and it's a genuine question....

I have just watched Nicola Sturgeon on National TV saying Westminster had yet to deliver everything set out in the Vow to the Scottish People.

What hasn't been done?

Like everything else the SNP stands for, it can be whatever the cultists want to believe hasn't been done, because SNP politics are a narrative not based in reality.

'The Vow' she refers to was nothing more than a mock-up declaration on a newspaper front page, concocted by journalists from said newspaper, interpreting the words of Gordon Brown who had no authority to make pledges on behalf of the UK government, which is why the same Gordon Brown is the only other politician on the planet saying anything about 'the vow'. Even the SNP's own propaganda mouthpiece (grudgingly) acknowledges this.

Just like Angus Robertson's grasp of the Middle East situation, the SNP will talk crap all day long to shore up their narrative.

Some would say it is insulting to the intelligence of their support. Others might suggest they are taking advantage of it!

Edited by r11co on Thursday 15th October 21:15

[hidetheelephants]

I'm waiting for the riots to start when fracking gets discussed; the land reform bill has potential for causing a ruck too.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 16th October 02:20

[5STM5]

andymadmak said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

So, if I read this right, (and I may not be) Ms Sturgeon is asking No voters to vote SNP so that they can all help to improve Scotland. She is also saying that another referendum is not on the cards unless a significant number of No voters change their minds.... So, am I being cynical to suggest that her ploy here is to lull No voters into voting for the SNP under the guise of there being no risk of another referendum, and then she will point to that vote as the evidence she needs to justify holding another referendum?

Confused

This is in a similar vein to her pre GE2105 talks. She stated several times that the General Election vote for SNP was not about Independence, rather more powers for Scotland. The reality is, since then, every faux grievance generates a call for Ref 2 and how Westminster doesn't understand or comply with the will of the Scottish people.
Any majority the snp get in HR2016 will be seen as a mandate for a Referendum, but only when they choose. Thankfully that won't be in the next 4-5 years, as long as CMD doesn't cave in.

[kingofdbrits]

TheRainMaker said:

Not wanting to stir anything up here, and it's a genuine question....

I have just watched Nicola Sturgeon on National TV saying Westminster had yet to deliver everything set out in the Vow to the Scottish People.

What hasn't been done?

I wasn't sure on the detail but an SMP asked Cameron at PMQ's a few weeks ago about delivering everything from the vow, the PM said he had and challenged the SMP to describe 1 item to the house that was in the vow that hadn't been delivered, the SMP couldn't so the PM hammered him with a response saying it's SNP bluster, again, which was greeted by cheers from what seemed like every other MP.

[///ajd]

here it is

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jagFo2gUyQ

posted it seems by an SNP who presumably thinks Angus wasn't made to look a tit.

it is like religion - blind.

[simoid]

r11co said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The single comment below the article is illuminating.

Indeed. SNP supporters aren't in the least bit xenophobic....

Someone should hold an interview with Sturgeon on the issue of independence, what the SNP wants, pros/cons etc, and see how many answers are polar opposites for IndyScot/EU issue.

[IainT]

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/10/snp-to-h...

I suppose it's in keeping with Nationalist Democracy.

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

BlackLabel said:

Reminds me of this which I spotted on twitter:

Only a ScotNat could figure Scotland sending it's Ebola victims to London is some sort of slight on Scotland. What a complete and utter fktard.

He's obviously not thought about the consequences of an Ebola outbreak in an iScotland, as we clearly don't have the expertise/facilities to deal with one. Or is that another thing that rUK will just have to help us with/share. Like the currency, bank, army and all the rest?

Surely that can't be genuine?!

[Edinburger]

ianrb said:

hidetheelephants said:

I'm not sure he does; most of the media 'noise' is to do with the SNP's sudden lurch leftward, either in response to or to encourage the flood of disillusioned socialists joining them having torn up their Labour membership, and the new-labour-lite nature of a sizeable chunk of the party. The hard left and these centrist economic liberals are as oil and water, how you keep them both in the party and happy is not clear.

But have they in actual fact lurched leftward, or is it simply their retoric which has moved? I think it's just the latter and they are still the Tartan Tories they always have been.

It's clear to see the SNP have acquired a lot of support from former Labour supporters, but what's this sudden lurch to the left you're talking about?

I haven't seen that. One minute they're criticised in this thread for introducing measures to support middle class people eg the electric car grant, and the next they're being compared to the North Korean government!

[Edinburger]

ianrb said:

hidetheelephants said:

ianrb said:

But have they in actual fact lurched leftward, or is it simply their retoric which has moved? I think it's just the latter and they are still the Tartan Tories they always have been.

There has been a move to the left in some policies since Sturgeon took over; the land reform bill isn't something that would have seen the light of day under Salmond and the police, child supervision, airgun control and several other issues demonstrate a new interest in forming a nanny state of a particularly ugly kind.

Fair comment. But excluding the Land Reform bill I wouldn't call any of that left wing, more totalitarian.

Totalitarian. Seriously?

[Edinburger]

SPS said:

Anyone noticed that the Sturg has gone public at the conference stating that the SNP will not be looking to push another referendum for "freedom" as it's too soon.
Well there is that plus the slightly vexing issue of oil prices being in the tank lmao!

Good spot. Sadly, it says a lot about how the debate and conversation in this thread has changed, that this very pertinent point hasn't been discussed.

No views, anyone? I realise this won't let you carry on SNP-bashing but surely it's relevant to the theme of his thread?

[Edinburger]

5STM5 said:

andymadmak said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

So, if I read this right, (and I may not be) Ms Sturgeon is asking No voters to vote SNP so that they can all help to improve Scotland. She is also saying that another referendum is not on the cards unless a significant number of No voters change their minds.... So, am I being cynical to suggest that her ploy here is to lull No voters into voting for the SNP under the guise of there being no risk of another referendum, and then she will point to that vote as the evidence she needs to justify holding another referendum?

Confused

This is in a similar vein to her pre GE2105 talks. She stated several times that the General Election vote for SNP was not about Independence, rather more powers for Scotland. The reality is, since then, every faux grievance generates a call for Ref 2 and how Westminster doesn't understand or comply with the will of the Scottish people.
Any majority the snp get in HR2016 will be seen as a mandate for a Referendum, but only when they choose. Thankfully that won't be in the next 4-5 years, as long as CMD doesn't cave in.

More devolved powers for Scotland is a very different debate to full independence.

More devolved powers is also what most Scots want.

[///ajd]

Edinburger said:

5STM5 said:

andymadmak said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

So, if I read this right, (and I may not be) Ms Sturgeon is asking No voters to vote SNP so that they can all help to improve Scotland. She is also saying that another referendum is not on the cards unless a significant number of No voters change their minds.... So, am I being cynical to suggest that her ploy here is to lull No voters into voting for the SNP under the guise of there being no risk of another referendum, and then she will point to that vote as the evidence she needs to justify holding another referendum?

Confused

This is in a similar vein to her pre GE2105 talks. She stated several times that the General Election vote for SNP was not about Independence, rather more powers for Scotland. The reality is, since then, every faux grievance generates a call for Ref 2 and how Westminster doesn't understand or comply with the will of the Scottish people.
Any majority the snp get in HR2016 will be seen as a mandate for a Referendum, but only when they choose. Thankfully that won't be in the next 4-5 years, as long as CMD doesn't cave in.

More devolved powers for Scotland is a very different debate to full independence.

More devolved powers is also what most Scots want.

They used to. But I suspect that was in a throw away "why not" way. Since the neverendumb, i'm not so sure. Eyes have been opened to be the benefits if the union, and the potential damage of nationalist tinkering - using powers to subsidise teslas and millionaires prescriptions whilst the scottish nhs crumbles faster than the rUK one.

Are you going the reply to Andymadmacs rather compelling post burger? I think you promised you would? Enjoying the conference?

Do you think Angus made a tit of himself over the vow? bleating and bhing about it not being delivered....PM says 'name one part that is not delivered?". Silence. The definition of bluster and bullst. The 56, sorry 55.

[Blib]

Of course he's not going to answer.

[AC43]

Edinburger said:

SPS said:

Anyone noticed that the Sturg has gone public at the conference stating that the SNP will not be looking to push another referendum for "freedom" as it's too soon.
Well there is that plus the slightly vexing issue of oil prices being in the tank lmao!

Good spot. Sadly, it says a lot about how the debate and conversation in this thread has changed, that this very pertinent point hasn't been discussed.

No views, anyone? I realise this won't let you carry on SNP-bashing but surely it's relevant to the theme of his thread?

It's a glimmer of hope, a flicker of normality. But unfortunately now the separatist, shouty genie is out firmly of the bottle it's somewhat meaningless. There's a radical part the SNP support which will force Sturgeon to return to nationalist clap trap again and again over the years to come.

I can't wait..........

[AC43]

...and as soon as one tiny piece of good news comes from the SNP we get this. I can't write what I really think on this forum as I'd no doubt get banned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11936848/...

[AC43]

///ajd said:

here it is

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jagFo2gUyQ

posted it seems by an SNP who presumably thinks Angus wasn't made to look a tit.

it is like religion - blind.

I can't believe he's got the front to claim that Cameron is full of "Tory bluster and condescension" and that it "won't go down well in Scotland".

How about this? The 95%+ of people in the UK who didn't vote for the SNP are thoroughly sick of SNP bluster and condescension as are the 55% that voted No in the referendum. Now why don't you **** off back to Scotland and try to actually implement something.

[///ajd]

Edinburger said:

SPS said:

Anyone noticed that the Sturg has gone public at the conference stating that the SNP will not be looking to push another referendum for "freedom" as it's too soon.
Well there is that plus the slightly vexing issue of oil prices being in the tank lmao!

Good spot. Sadly, it says a lot about how the debate and conversation in this thread has changed, that this very pertinent point hasn't been discussed.

No views, anyone? I realise this won't let you carry on SNP-bashing but surely it's relevant to the theme of his thread?

Of course it is worthy of discussion.

One aspect to ponder is the SNPs blatent unreliability on any declarations on when/how often to run neverendumbs. Only one year ago it was patently once in a lifetime. Now it depends on the electorate.

Nicola can say its "too soon" now - infact she has to to stop scaring away non-mental voters. Then she can say what she likes post May 16. You can hear it now "ah, we have the same majority as before which means the voters do want another referendum etc. as many in the party hear this in the streets (well, in the YES bar)"

Andymadmacs post awaits your deliberation.