Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[deadslow]

hidetheelephants said:

All politicians just like the sound of their own voice and can't help telling lies if they think it might gain a few votes or give them the headlines for 24 hours.

EFA

[///ajd]

Axionknight said:

He's right, though.

100%

I'm not so sure. I don't think Blair/Campbell fabricated the evidence - I think they really thought their were WMDs - its not like he hadn't used chemical weapons before is it - he had. I think they had a genuine "oh fck" moment when they realised Saddam was bluffing.

It was a monumental fck up, but not premeditated.

It says alot about Salmond that he thinks it was - judging others by his own standards, clearly - and he admits he's fabricated and lied in the past. Yes, we know Alex, you lying gobsh*te.

[Troubleatmill]

///ajd said:

Axionknight said:

He's right, though.

100%

I'm not so sure. I don't think Blair/Campbell fabricated the evidence - I think they really thought their were WMDs - its not like he hadn't used chemical weapons before is it - he had. I think they had a genuine "oh fck" moment when they realised Saddam was bluffing.

It was a monumental fck up, but not premeditated.

It says alot about Salmond that he thinks it was - judging others by his own standards, clearly - and he admits he's fabricated and lied in the past. Yes, we know Alex, you lying gobsh*te.

You did read what Blair said... and that thesis he copied word for word... right. You know the 45 minutes WMD thesis... The one Blair copied word for word...


You do realise that the thesis was hypotheticals... but good enough to put in front of Westminster and get a rubber stamp to invade.

[///ajd]

Troubleatmill said:

///ajd said:

Axionknight said:

He's right, though.

100%

I'm not so sure. I don't think Blair/Campbell fabricated the evidence - I think they really thought their were WMDs - its not like he hadn't used chemical weapons before is it - he had. I think they had a genuine "oh fck" moment when they realised Saddam was bluffing.

It was a monumental fck up, but not premeditated.

It says alot about Salmond that he thinks it was - judging others by his own standards, clearly - and he admits he's fabricated and lied in the past. Yes, we know Alex, you lying gobsh*te.

You did read what Blair said... and that thesis he copied word for word... right. You know the 45 minutes WMD thesis... The one Blair copied word for word...


You do realise that the thesis was hypotheticals... but good enough to put in front of Westminster and get a rubber stamp to invade.

You do realise that even though Dr Kelly thought some bits of the dossier daft - like the 45 min claim - that he did in fact fundamentally agree that invasion and regime change were required to avert the medium term risk of WMD and he believed that Iraq had biological weapons?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/aug/31/da...

The whole history of that unfortunate war was been spun so far from reality it seems no one can remember what really happened. I was not convinced of the case for war, but I only think Blair did it as he was genuinely concerned about removing the risk of Irag having WMDs. I think overt use of such WMDs was required before action for regime change could have been considered. Ironically Syria has done just that but now the west feels impotent for its Iraq mistake.

PS I hold Gilligan predominately responsible for Kellys death. I suspect Susan Watts does too. The government fumbled their handling of Kelly, but they didn't realise Gilligan had twisted his words in a way that would make Kelly feel guilty and responsible about it - as what Gilligan reported was an awful exaggeration and put Kelly in an intolerable position.








http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/aug/31/da...

Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 21st May 07:51

[Axionknight]

Disagree, but I suppose it's a topic for another thread, if we ever get the Chilcott Report - after the EU referendum I heard, but I'm not holding by breath for genuine accountability.

[///ajd]

Axionknight said:

Disagree, but I suppose it's a topic for another thread, if we ever get the Chilcott Report - after the EU referendum I heard, but I'm not holding by breath for genuine accountability.

Indeed, there should be some revealing insights, but much of the most relevant e.g. SIS evidence is still heavily redacted on the chilcott site.

July 6th apparently. I don't expect closure, it will be interesting if I'm proved wrong on my opinion - the implications could be very damaging.

[NoNeed]

I hve real trouble trying to tell the difference between Blair and Salmond, ok there are obvious physical ones but if you were to just read their words, both are scumbags that would happily lie to get what they want.

The only thing that stops Salmond from flexing his political muscle using military means is that he has no military. Was it Syria or Libya he wanted to invade 3/4 years ago?

How the old Scottish saying go, Two cheeks of the same arse?

Edited by NoNeed on Saturday 21st May 12:35

[Sylvaforever]

Edinburger said:

I understand your point, but in my experience Rangers fans are much worse than those of any other club. Of course Celtic and other clubs (even Hibs who I support) have their issues with fans, but it's Rangers fans who I've seen the most vile behaviour from, it's Rangers fans who are investigated, fined and banned most for the sectarian behaviour, and it's Rangers fans who bring their vile behaviour to my club's stadium.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-36350220


"The Scottish FA, along with Police Scotland and the stadium management have initiated a full investigation into the scenes that unfolded to understand how such a volume of supporters were able to enter the field."
Rangers said some of their players and staff had been assaulted by Hibs fans as they tried to leave the pitch. The team received their runners-up medals in the dressing room.
As Hibs fans returned to the stands part of the pitch was ripped up and the goal posts were broken by people climbing on them.
'Disgraceful behaviour'
The invasion delayed the presentation of the trophy and there was no lap of honour by the Hibernian players.
A statement from Rangers condemned the "disgraceful behaviour of Hibs fans".
A spokesman said: "Rangers players and staff were assaulted by these fans who invaded the pitch and in the interests of their safety could not return to the pitch for the medal presentation.
"There can be no place for the violent behaviour witnessed at the end of the final and Rangers fully expect the Scottish Football Association and Police Scotland to launch an investigation to find out where security measures failed.
"The club would like to commend Rangers fans for the restraint they showed under severe provocation."




Critism of member Edinburger redated in previous edit

Edited by Sylvaforever on Saturday 21st May 18:32

[technodup]

Sylvaforever said:

Edinburger said:

I understand your point, but in my experience Rangers fans are much worse than those of any other club. Of course Celtic and other clubs (even Hibs who I support) have their issues with fans, but it's Rangers fans who I've seen the most vile behaviour from, it's Rangers fans who are investigated, fined and banned most for the sectarian behaviour, and it's Rangers fans who bring their vile behaviour to my club's stadium.

Quoted for posterity.If, IF that clown had any remaining credebility he sure doesn't now.

This. What a cretin.

As I just posted elsewhere

technodup said:

They got a cup, Scottish football disgraced on telly, a big investigation and hopefully charges against their scum fans. We won the thing that counts.

Typical diddy team mentality, so unused to success they don't know how to behave. Rangers players attacked, police horses on the pitch and medals handed out in the dressing room? Some victory that. fking scum.

Edinburger could you please take your junkie fans and their vile and violent behavior back to your city where they belong? You're not welcome here.

[Edinburger]

Axionknight said:

Hibs

Rangers



Oh, and as predicted all the sectarian crap to go with it.

Glory, glory to the Hibees

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

Sylvaforever said:

Edinburger said:

I understand your point, but in my experience Rangers fans are much worse than those of any other club. Of course Celtic and other clubs (even Hibs who I support) have their issues with fans, but it's Rangers fans who I've seen the most vile behaviour from, it's Rangers fans who are investigated, fined and banned most for the sectarian behaviour, and it's Rangers fans who bring their vile behaviour to my club's stadium.

Quoted for posterity.If, IF that clown had any remaining credebility he sure doesn't now.

This. What a cretin.

As I just posted elsewhere

technodup said:

They got a cup, Scottish football disgraced on telly, a big investigation and hopefully charges against their scum fans. We won the thing that counts.

Typical diddy team mentality, so unused to success they don't know how to behave. Rangers players attacked, police horses on the pitch and medals handed out in the dressing room? Some victory that. fking scum.

Edinburger could you please take your junkie fans and their vile and violent behavior back to your city where they belong? You're not welcome here.

Grow up - what was disgraceful about a pitch invasion?

The disgrace was the sectarian songs by the Rangers fans.

Away back to Ibrox to polish the petrol station cup!

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

Sylvaforever said:

Edinburger said:

I understand your point, but in my experience Rangers fans are much worse than those of any other club. Of course Celtic and other clubs (even Hibs who I support) have their issues with fans, but it's Rangers fans who I've seen the most vile behaviour from, it's Rangers fans who are investigated, fined and banned most for the sectarian behaviour, and it's Rangers fans who bring their vile behaviour to my club's stadium.

Quoted for posterity.If, IF that clown had any remaining credebility he sure doesn't now.

This. What a cretin.

As I just posted elsewhere

technodup said:

They got a cup, Scottish football disgraced on telly, a big investigation and hopefully charges against their scum fans. We won the thing that counts.

Typical diddy team mentality, so unused to success they don't know how to behave. Rangers players attacked, police horses on the pitch and medals handed out in the dressing room? Some victory that. fking scum.

Edinburger could you please take your junkie fans and their vile and violent behavior back to your city where they belong? You're not welcome here.

I didn't see any violence by Hibs supporters. It was a harmless pitch invasion in response to a historical victory, only marred by sectarian hatred and inciting violence by the Rangers fans.

Don't worry, the investigation will be in Rangers favour as the SFA are too spineless to find any other outcome. They'll ignore the illegal flares, the sectarianism, and your violent behaviour.

Never can any Rangers fan criticise the behaviour and attitude displayed by any other Scottish teams fans. Never ever.

Diddy team?!?! You clown. Take your "fans" and the vile hatred and disgusting behaviour out of every other city in Scotland and keep it in Glasgow.

We don't want that.

[///ajd]

///ajd said:

Edinburger said:

///ajd said:

simoid said:

I also wish Edinburger didn't bring up the sectarian accusations unprompted.

EFA

Unprompted?

What's your view on investigative journalism?

Jeez.

Well, by my rudimentary investigations, YOU clearly started the whole rangers thing (on page 274) BEFORE the tweet from Murdo was posted (on page 275)!

This is the first post that YOU started, bringing rangers into the discussion totally unprompted - the knuckledragger comment was a clear reference to the Yestapo trying to lynch Robinson at the BBC.

Here it is:

Edinburger said:

r11co said:

Sylvaforever said:

Desperation indeed, however I may not be incorrect [ hows that 'burger?] in saying that BBC Scotland and it's employees are "in fear" of the SNP and it's loyal footsoldiers....remember what they got up to during the referendum coverage??

The constitutional issue is still the hot topic to get the knuckledraggers riled, so I'm inclined to agree that it was a clumsy attempt at the BBC going too far in their attempt to be 'unbiased'.

Seems a bit rude to describe all supporters of any specific organisation as "knuckledraggers".

NB Unless you were referring to Rangers fans!

This is the link to page 274. Click next to see the first reference to Murdos tweet.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...


I tend to agree the matter should be put to rest, but it is useful to capture the scale of the "wrongness" for prosperity.

Welcome back Burger.

Care to reflect on the above?

[DocJock]

Edinburger said:

technodup said:

Sylvaforever said:

Edinburger said:

I understand your point, but in my experience Rangers fans are much worse than those of any other club. Of course Celtic and other clubs (even Hibs who I support) have their issues with fans, but it's Rangers fans who I've seen the most vile behaviour from, it's Rangers fans who are investigated, fined and banned most for the sectarian behaviour, and it's Rangers fans who bring their vile behaviour to my club's stadium.

Quoted for posterity.If, IF that clown had any remaining credebility he sure doesn't now.

This. What a cretin.

As I just posted elsewhere

technodup said:

They got a cup, Scottish football disgraced on telly, a big investigation and hopefully charges against their scum fans. We won the thing that counts.

Typical diddy team mentality, so unused to success they don't know how to behave. Rangers players attacked, police horses on the pitch and medals handed out in the dressing room? Some victory that. fking scum.

Edinburger could you please take your junkie fans and their vile and violent behavior back to your city where they belong? You're not welcome here.

I didn't see any violence by Hibs supporters. It was a harmless pitch invasion in response to a historical victory, only marred by sectarian hatred and inciting violence by the Rangers fans.

Don't worry, the investigation will be in Rangers favour as the SFA are too spineless to find any other outcome. They'll ignore the illegal flares, the sectarianism, and your violent behaviour.

Never can any Rangers fan criticise the behaviour and attitude displayed by any other Scottish teams fans. Never ever.

Diddy team?!?! You clown. Take your "fans" and the vile hatred and disgusting behaviour out of every other city in Scotland and keep it in Glasgow.

We don't want that.

Can this shyte be taken to the Scottish football thread?

[Edinburger]

///ajd said:

///ajd said:

Edinburger said:

///ajd said:

simoid said:

I also wish Edinburger didn't bring up the sectarian accusations unprompted.

EFA

Unprompted?

What's your view on investigative journalism?

Jeez.

Well, by my rudimentary investigations, YOU clearly started the whole rangers thing (on page 274) BEFORE the tweet from Murdo was posted (on page 275)!

This is the first post that YOU started, bringing rangers into the discussion totally unprompted - the knuckledragger comment was a clear reference to the Yestapo trying to lynch Robinson at the BBC.

Here it is:

Edinburger said:

r11co said:

Sylvaforever said:

Desperation indeed, however I may not be incorrect [ hows that 'burger?] in saying that BBC Scotland and it's employees are "in fear" of the SNP and it's loyal footsoldiers....remember what they got up to during the referendum coverage??

The constitutional issue is still the hot topic to get the knuckledraggers riled, so I'm inclined to agree that it was a clumsy attempt at the BBC going too far in their attempt to be 'unbiased'.

Seems a bit rude to describe all supporters of any specific organisation as "knuckledraggers".

NB Unless you were referring to Rangers fans!

This is the link to page 274. Click next to see the first reference to Murdos tweet.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...


I tend to agree the matter should be put to rest, but it is useful to capture the scale of the "wrongness" for prosperity.

Welcome back Burger.

Care to reflect on the above?

Some other time - I'm likely to be busy tonight!

[///ajd]

Edinburger said:

///ajd said:

///ajd said:

Edinburger said:

///ajd said:

simoid said:

I also wish Edinburger didn't bring up the sectarian accusations unprompted.

EFA

Unprompted?

What's your view on investigative journalism?

Jeez.

Well, by my rudimentary investigations, YOU clearly started the whole rangers thing (on page 274) BEFORE the tweet from Murdo was posted (on page 275)!

This is the first post that YOU started, bringing rangers into the discussion totally unprompted - the knuckledragger comment was a clear reference to the Yestapo trying to lynch Robinson at the BBC.

Here it is:

Edinburger said:

r11co said:

Sylvaforever said:

Desperation indeed, however I may not be incorrect [ hows that 'burger?] in saying that BBC Scotland and it's employees are "in fear" of the SNP and it's loyal footsoldiers....remember what they got up to during the referendum coverage??

The constitutional issue is still the hot topic to get the knuckledraggers riled, so I'm inclined to agree that it was a clumsy attempt at the BBC going too far in their attempt to be 'unbiased'.

Seems a bit rude to describe all supporters of any specific organisation as "knuckledraggers".

NB Unless you were referring to Rangers fans!

This is the link to page 274. Click next to see the first reference to Murdos tweet.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...


I tend to agree the matter should be put to rest, but it is useful to capture the scale of the "wrongness" for prosperity.

Welcome back Burger.

Care to reflect on the above?

Some other time - I'm likely to be busy tonight!

Good plan, no need to spoil your evening. Read it later.

[Edinburger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/ra...

Please note the line "principally involving Rangers fans".

[Edinburger]

Oh, and let's not forget Manchester.

Just saying.

[Axionknight]

Edinburger said:

Some other time - I'm likely to be busy tonight!

[r11co]

DocJock said:

Can this shyte be taken to the Scottish football thread?