Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Big Rod said:

I have no evidence to back this up but I suspect those that'd be inclined to vote against independence are those who are quite mobile and flexible from a lifestyle or professional perspective and know they have some sort of 'out' should the vote be in favour of isolation.

If I recall correctly manual workers were more likely to be Yes, and management were more likely to be No. I'm sure we discussed/linked on a previous thread.

Interestingly, this poll reckons a narrow majority of higher rate taxpayers voted yes, under £20k earners voted yes, but most average earners voted no: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...

Plenty intriguing stats from their study of 5,000 after the referendum.

What a lot of rubbish, simoid.

Define "manual workers" and "management". This is 2016 remember.

That's exactly the sort of nonsense written by those in market research and education who are alienated from the society they profess and lecture about.

Pathetic.

One vote per person remember.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

"According to Ipsos MORI (from whose last two polls the relevant information is uniquely available), no less than 65% of those living in one of the 20% most deprived neighbourhoods in Scotland voted Yes, compared with just 36% of those in the one-fifth most affluent."

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/voted-y...

Any insightful analysis for us? Personal view, beyond confusion?

[s2kjock]

Big Rod said:

I have no evidence to back this up but I suspect those that'd be inclined to vote against independence are those who are quite mobile and flexible from a lifestyle or professional perspective and know they have some sort of 'out' should the vote be in favour of isolation.

I think it is more likely that those who are mobile and flexible will fall into the WGAF camp as they have an "out".

It is the people who think it will be detrimental to their future and can't relocate who will be voting no - ie older people (my parents) and those who are soon to have to look after them in their dotage (me).

This is what irritates me when business millionaires and celebrities are held up as "good examples" (for either side of the argument) as in practice the outcome is not likely to have a material impact on them.

[malks222]

exactly, the same celebrities/ rich people who use legitimate ways to minimize their tax bills (dividends, trusts, ebt's.....) but criticise the government for not clamping down on big corporations who do the same.......

[Big Rod]

s2kjock said:

Big Rod said:

I have no evidence to back this up but I suspect those that'd be inclined to vote against independence are those who are quite mobile and flexible from a lifestyle or professional perspective and know they have some sort of 'out' should the vote be in favour of isolation.

I think it is more likely that those who are mobile and flexible will fall into the WGAF camp as they have an "out".

It is the people who think it will be detrimental to their future and can't relocate who will be voting no - ie older people (my parents) and those who are soon to have to look after them in their dotage (me).

This is what irritates me when business millionaires and celebrities are held up as "good examples" (for either side of the argument) as in practice the outcome is not likely to have a material impact on them.

Well, that's kind'a what I was getting at.

Personally speaking, I'm quite mobile from a professional aspect and I'm sick of the SNP and the constant 'noise' of another referendum. I certainly don't want to go through the whole rigmarole again. I've better things to be doing with my time so, (while I'm against the notion and really don't want to move), I'd be looking at the GTFO and leave them to it option.

[Welshbeef]

So the Scottish are drinking 9 pints weekly for every man woman child and baby in 2015!!!!

Materially above rUK. I guess YeSNP are right we are different.



9 pints per capita per week is nuts.

I think the other stat they had was on the spirits front the average Scot drinks 47 Ltr bottles of Vodka (and specifically cheap vodka).
So that's 0.9ltrs of vodka every week PLUS 9 pints a week per capita!!!!!! I'd go as far to say that this would indicate alcohol addiction and abuse on a massive scale.


Why have the SNP done nothing about this while being in govt 8 years and counting.

[Janluke]

Big Rod said:

Well, that's kind'a what I was getting at.

Personally speaking, I'm quite mobile from a professional aspect and I'm sick of the SNP and the constant 'noise' of another referendum. I certainly don't want to go through the whole rigmarole again. I've better things to be doing with my time so, (while I'm against the notion and really don't want to move), I'd be looking at the GTFO and leave them to it option.

I think it's every adult but still shocking. How does the rest of the UK compare?

[glazbagun]

Welshbeef said:

So the Scottish are drinking 9 pints weekly for every man woman child and baby in 2015!!!!

Materially above rUK. I guess YeSNP are right we are different.



9 pints per capita per week is nuts.

I think the other stat they had was on the spirits front the average Scot drinks 47 Ltr bottles of Vodka (and specifically cheap vodka).
So that's 0.9ltrs of vodka every week PLUS 9 pints a week per capita!!!!!! I'd go as far to say that this would indicate alcohol addiction and abuse on a massive scale.


Why have the SNP done nothing about this while being in govt 8 years and counting.

In their defence, they have tried to introduce minimum alcohol pricing (defeated by the EU) and also banned multi-buy offers in supermarkets. Personally I am increasingly sure that drug abuse (of all kinds) is more down to stress and social factors and that tackling drink/drug availability is treating the symptom not the cause.

[simoid]

Nick Grant said:

simoid said:

"According to Ipsos MORI (from whose last two polls the relevant information is uniquely available), no less than 65% of those living in one of the 20% most deprived neighbourhoods in Scotland voted Yes, compared with just 36% of those in the one-fifth most affluent."

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/voted-y...

So how does that incentivise the SNP to make Scotland better? The more deprevation the more support for independence. It explains much of the lack of action from the SNP.

Edited by Nick Grant on Wednesday 25th May 12:31

Quite. Batter the poor; bribe everyone else.

[Jockman]

Welshbeef said:

Why have the SNP done nothing about this while being in govt 8 years and counting.

Many Jocks will drink to forget. Not many will forget to drink.

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

So the Scottish are drinking 9 pints weekly for every man woman child and baby in 2015!!!!

Materially above rUK. I guess YeSNP are right we are different.



9 pints per capita per week is nuts.

I think the other stat they had was on the spirits front the average Scot drinks 47 Ltr bottles of Vodka (and specifically cheap vodka).
So that's 0.9ltrs of vodka every week PLUS 9 pints a week per capita!!!!!! I'd go as far to say that this would indicate alcohol addiction and abuse on a massive scale.


Why have the SNP done nothing about this while being in govt 8 years and counting.

Nothing like stereotyping, eh?

[Edinburger]

Now this is interesting: Sturgeon announces school reform summit as part of 'bold' education plan.

I have kids who go to what I think is a well regarded state school and while there are aspects of the Scottish education system which I don't fully get, how do those in the know think it compares to other places? Is the 'curriculum for excellence' up to scratch?

Can Ms Sturgeon make Scottish education a “world leader”?

Pragmatic thoughts, please.

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

simoid said:

Big Rod said:

I have no evidence to back this up but I suspect those that'd be inclined to vote against independence are those who are quite mobile and flexible from a lifestyle or professional perspective and know they have some sort of 'out' should the vote be in favour of isolation.

If I recall correctly manual workers were more likely to be Yes, and management were more likely to be No. I'm sure we discussed/linked on a previous thread.

Interestingly, this poll reckons a narrow majority of higher rate taxpayers voted yes, under £20k earners voted yes, but most average earners voted no: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...

Plenty intriguing stats from their study of 5,000 after the referendum.

What a lot of rubbish, simoid.

Define "manual workers" and "management". This is 2016 remember.

That's exactly the sort of nonsense written by those in market research and education who are alienated from the society they profess and lecture about.

Pathetic.

One vote per person remember.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRS_social_grade

Manual workers are folk who work with their hands. Can't believe I've actually had to define manual labour for a grown man...!?

Thanks for your insightful analysis as always.

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

simoid said:

"According to Ipsos MORI (from whose last two polls the relevant information is uniquely available), no less than 65% of those living in one of the 20% most deprived neighbourhoods in Scotland voted Yes, compared with just 36% of those in the one-fifth most affluent."

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/voted-y...

Any insightful analysis for us? Personal view, beyond confusion?

I didn't bother, since I was just providing a link for Rod who presumably can draw his own conclusions.

Looks to me like this evidence supports the view that lower earners are more likely to vote for independence. Perhaps the SNP think that if they can prevent the lower earners from earning more, their core support will be perpetual, since they lack the political awareness to notice SNP battering the lowest earners and dishing out tax cuts to the better off.

[r11co]

Edinburger said:

Now this is interesting: Sturgeon announces school reform summit as part of 'bold' education plan.

In other words, SNP government fks up education on its watch, and now makes a big show of attempting to put right their own wrongs.

I've worked in Scottish education for 26 years - notice it is 'school reform' rather than education reform, which SNP presided over and made a jolly (and jolly expensive) of. SNP seem to think that tinkering with the management is now the solution. Make no mistake - this is a cost cutting measure aimed at local authorities and nothing more.

The biggest failure in Scottish education in recent times has been change for change's sake, driven by the competing interest bodies of LTS/HMI (now merged), GTC and SQA all jostling to be the ones in control.

[Wombat3]

Edinburger said:

Now this is interesting: Sturgeon announces school reform summit as part of 'bold' education plan.

I have kids who go to what I think is a well regarded state school and while there are aspects of the Scottish education system which I don't fully get, how do those in the know think it compares to other places? Is the 'curriculum for excellence' up to scratch?

Can Ms Sturgeon make Scottish education a “world leader”?

Pragmatic thoughts, please.

In all seriousness, Messrs Sturgeon & Swinney (and Salmond) couldn't manage a piss-up in a brewery so the chances of them turning Scotland's public education system into a world leader are somewhere between slim & none (and "slim" just left town!)

Think Singapore or South Korea - and then realise just how far off they (and the rest of the UK) are.

[Big Rod]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

simoid said:

"According to Ipsos MORI (from whose last two polls the relevant information is uniquely available), no less than 65% of those living in one of the 20% most deprived neighbourhoods in Scotland voted Yes, compared with just 36% of those in the one-fifth most affluent."

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/voted-y...

Any insightful analysis for us? Personal view, beyond confusion?

I didn't bother, since I was just providing a link for Rod who presumably can draw his own conclusions.

Looks to me like this evidence supports the view that lower earners are more likely to vote for independence. Perhaps the SNP think that if they can prevent the lower earners from earning more, their core support will be perpetual, since they lack the political awareness to notice SNP battering the lowest earners and dishing out tax cuts to the better off.

Sorry Simoid, I missed that somehow.

Unless I'm missing something, it kind'a supports my assumptions.

So those who expect the moon on a plate were more likely to vote yes, whereas those who have no such expectations were more likely to vote no because they've established themselves on a fairly steady platform and don't want it to change?

Maybe I read more into it but that's what I got.

[glazbagun]

Isn't it generally the case that the have nots tend to vote for change, the have's for the status quo and the getting-theres are the key?

Too few of the Getting-Theres and you get a revolution, enough of them and they'll put up with all kinds of crap if they think the system will allow them to advance.

People all over the western world are losing faith in our governments, hence the rise in anti-establishment voters. As a proportion of society, I imagine the getting theres are smaller than they've been for quite some time.

[Big Rod]

glazbagun said:

Isn't it generally the case that the have nots tend to vote for change, the have's for the status quo and the getting-theres are the key?

Too few of the Getting-Theres and you get a revolution, enough of them and they'll put up with all kinds of crap if they think the system will allow them to advance.

People all over the western world are losing faith in our governments, hence the rise in anti-establishment voters. As a proportion of society, I imagine the getting theres are smaller than they've been for quite some time.

Yeah, but the 'getting there's I'm sure will choose the path of least resistance and risk I think.

When it comes down to it, (and I think it's been mentioned), they have the most to lose.

They're likely to be responsible and/or parents and want to proceed in a stable environment.

And pretty much the cross section of society that you'd want to attract votes from as a political party, but...

...It seems diametrically opposed to the target, (mindwashed), audience of the SNP.

[Welshbeef]

Edinburger said:

Welshbeef said:

So the Scottish are drinking 9 pints weekly for every man woman child and baby in 2015!!!!

Materially above rUK. I guess YeSNP are right we are different.



9 pints per capita per week is nuts.

I think the other stat they had was on the spirits front the average Scot drinks 47 Ltr bottles of Vodka (and specifically cheap vodka).
So that's 0.9ltrs of vodka every week PLUS 9 pints a week per capita!!!!!! I'd go as far to say that this would indicate alcohol addiction and abuse on a massive scale.


Why have the SNP done nothing about this while being in govt 8 years and counting.

Nothing like stereotyping, eh?

Stereotyping - well those facts are on average so if it's only half the population women men kids babies then the average would be 18 pints a week AND 1.8ltrs of vodka every week.

Nothing like ignoring the facts silly rolleyes