Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
stevemiller said:
I don't see anyone stating the obvious so I will put it in car terms.
On thursday the remain voters in Scotland were voting for something that looked to them like a BMW M3. They did not get the sale they wanted due to a family dispute. Now its Sunday and they return to the dealers and ask for the M3 however when they look under the bonnet rather than a twin turbo 3 litre it has a 2 litre single turbo and its change due to a drop in capacity and actual power. Do you still want to own that car?
That's not at all analogous. Think about it.On thursday the remain voters in Scotland were voting for something that looked to them like a BMW M3. They did not get the sale they wanted due to a family dispute. Now its Sunday and they return to the dealers and ask for the M3 however when they look under the bonnet rather than a twin turbo 3 litre it has a 2 litre single turbo and its change due to a drop in capacity and actual power. Do you still want to own that car?
Garvin said:
Humiliated my arse. This suits Ms Sturgeon 'down to the ground'. She knows there is no fiscal basis for another referendum and that this would be the response of the EU but it demonstrates to her gullible band of nationalist supporters that she is seemingly doing her best for them and that, as usual, it is somebody else's fault that is preventing her achieving the objective.
The queen has no clothes!
Scotland Sturgeon and independence reminds me of Argentina's shouting over the Falklands.The queen has no clothes!
Different issues I know. However.
It's a great cause, a prop for your popularity if you are in power, a drum to beat, not an impossibility but a remote probability.
In reality, it's not going to happen for all sorts of reasons.
But keep banging on about it when times are tough, or when you don't get what you want.
I used to be very pro-the union and I admit to getting twitchy in the run up to the Scottish referendum and selling a property I had in Scotland. I reckon by having a place there I must have put 10-15 K into the local economy every year. Far from a fortune, but it is an indication of the sort of impact the independence can have at a local level.
Now really is not the time for this discussion.
Scottish indepnence is something I think Scotland should or could consider in a decade or two. Maybe part of a wider debate about the union. Does for example England really need or want Scotland? What about Ireland? Wales? Maybe a new legal status like the Channel Islands or Isle of Man?
It's a debate worth having when the time is right.
All this guff from Edinburgh is right now is nothing but hot air, positioning, and hysteria. Like someone jumping into another relationship on the rebound.
No-one is thinking straight right now. The Tories and Labour are in turmoil. The SNP are like the shouty little kid on the edge of the playground fight, or the small time crook who tries to take advantage the day after Krays get sent down.
There are bigger issues to tackle right now than the half-baked self interest of Nicola Sturgeon. She should simply be ignored.
Excuse the pun, but there are bigger fish to fry right now.
glazbagun said:
Gandahar said:
Edinburger said:
Thought: IF there's a second independence referendum and IF Scotland votes to leave the UK and IF we join the EU, will we then see a brain drain from rUK to Scotland?
Could do, what science and hi tech services do you have up there that needs brains to be poached?wildcat45 said:
Garvin said:
Humiliated my arse. This suits Ms Sturgeon 'down to the ground'. She knows there is no fiscal basis for another referendum and that this would be the response of the EU but it demonstrates to her gullible band of nationalist supporters that she is seemingly doing her best for them and that, as usual, it is somebody else's fault that is preventing her achieving the objective.
The queen has no clothes!
Scotland Sturgeon and independence reminds me of Argentina's shouting over the Falklands.The queen has no clothes!
Different issues I know. However.
It's a great cause, a prop for your popularity if you are in power, a drum to beat, not an impossibility but a remote probability.
In reality, it's not going to happen for all sorts of reasons.
But keep banging on about it when times are tough, or when you don't get what you want.
I used to be very pro-the union and I admit to getting twitchy in the run up to the Scottish referendum and selling a property I had in Scotland. I reckon by having a place there I must have put 10-15 K into the local economy every year. Far from a fortune, but it is an indication of the sort of impact the independence can have at a local level.
Now really is not the time for this discussion.
Scottish indepnence is something I think Scotland should or could consider in a decade or two. Maybe part of a wider debate about the union. Does for example England really need or want Scotland? What about Ireland? Wales? Maybe a new legal status like the Channel Islands or Isle of Man?
It's a debate worth having when the time is right.
All this guff from Edinburgh is right now is nothing but hot air, positioning, and hysteria. Like someone jumping into another relationship on the rebound.
No-one is thinking straight right now. The Tories and Labour are in turmoil. The SNP are like the shouty little kid on the edge of the playground fight, or the small time crook who tries to take advantage the day after Krays get sent down.
There are bigger issues to tackle right now than the half-baked self interest of Nicola Sturgeon. She should simply be ignored.
Excuse the pun, but there are bigger fish to fry right now.
Making political expediency when you can.
Gandahar said:
Making political expediency when you can.
Yes, because she hasn't been chasing independence all of her political career, just this last few days.Whether you agree with her politics or not she's a strong leader with determination and a plan. But that the rest of the UK could have the same, we'll have to suffer the bumbling of either Boris or Corbyn.
Gandahar said:
glazbagun said:
Gandahar said:
Edinburger said:
Thought: IF there's a second independence referendum and IF Scotland votes to leave the UK and IF we join the EU, will we then see a brain drain from rUK to Scotland?
Could do, what science and hi tech services do you have up there that needs brains to be poached?gadgetmac said:
Sturgeon DOES want independence, from the UK. She doesn't want to leave the EU. It's not too complicated to comprehend.
It clearly is, for you missed the point entirely. Explain how a union with 3 other countries is not independence, but a union with 27 others is...gadgetmac said:
And Yes it was a surprise. It was a surprise that the English and Welsh would vote to leave, the bookies were offering 4/1, you're not keeping up with current worldwide events, turn your tv or radio on.
The result was a surprise to some, yes. The offer of a referendum was not.ralphrj said:
I'm not having any difficulty with the word democratic but I think others are struggling to understand that a referendum to do something does not necessarily oblige a Government to do it.
Technically it doesn't. But what exactly is the point of having a referendum if the government doesn't act on it? And if it doesn't then what does that say about our democracy? I think you're clutching at straws here. Sturgeon's doing the same, or acting like it.
contango said:
gadgetmac said:
Gandahar said:
Making political expediency when you can.
Yes, because she hasn't been chasing independence all of her political career, just this last few days.Whether you agree with her politics or not she's a strong leader with determination and a plan. But that the rest of the UK could have the same, we'll have to suffer the bumbling of either Boris or Corbyn.
Back to the usual, currency, deficit issues, throwing the new one of being in/out of the EU and the trading relationship with scotland's biggest trading partner.
Nothing but cheap sound bites once again, go away and work out a plan if you are serious scotland!
gadgetmac said:
What, a plan, you mean like the UK leavers have for us after leaving the EU?
I agree totally there, if anything it should teach us that the negative, binary, self-indulgent 'for the masses' politic and the politicians (of all shades) that espouse it should be sacked and replaced with people that can see beyond their own next election.gadgetmac said:
Whether you agree with her politics or not she's a strong leader with determination and a plan.
Funny, because she's clearly got no plan whatsoever. Everythings 'on the table'. So much is on the table she can't see the table any more.But it's all OK because
The Fake Reverend said:
The EU itself will be bending over backwards to facilitate Scotland’s unbroken membership.
Hmm...technodup said:
gadgetmac said:
Sturgeon DOES want independence, from the UK. She doesn't want to leave the EU. It's not too complicated to comprehend.
It clearly is, for you missed the point entirely. Explain how a union with 3 other countries is not independence, but a union with 27 others isIndependence from one partner doesn't mean you don't want ANY partner. Sturgeon and her followers just don't want England as their partner.
A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make. It's not the husbands right to say that she should have no other husbands in the future.
Thinking levels are plummeting since the referendum.
gadgetmac said:
A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make.
And if she gets another partner she'll not be independent any longer. It's really not hard to understand.independent
ɪndɪˈpɛnd(ə)nt/Submit
adjective
1.
free from outside control; not subject to another's authority.
Being in the EU is not free of control or authority by others. It's kind of the reason we just voted out of it.
gadgetmac said:
Seriously?
Independence from one partner doesn't mean you don't want ANY partner. Sturgeon and her followers just don't want England as their partner.
A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make. It's not the husbands right to say that she should have no other husbands in the future.
Thinking levels are plummeting since the referendum.
And Brussels is a better partner than Westminster? Led by an autonomous, un-elected cabal who wouldn't want Scotland anyway? Really?Independence from one partner doesn't mean you don't want ANY partner. Sturgeon and her followers just don't want England as their partner.
A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make. It's not the husbands right to say that she should have no other husbands in the future.
Thinking levels are plummeting since the referendum.
andy_s said:
glazbagun said:
Edinburgh will never be a global Hub like London/New York, if that's what you mean.
Not when Independence comes with a socialist agenda attached. If they'd proposed lowering corp tax to 10% it possibly could, but that wouldn't wash with the support base...andy_s said:
glazbagun said:
Edinburgh will never be a global Hub like London/New York, if that's what you mean.
Not when Independence comes with a socialist agenda attached. If they'd proposed lowering corp tax to 10% it possibly could, but that wouldn't wash with the support base...technodup said:
gadgetmac said:
A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make.
And if she gets another partner she'll not be independent any longer. It's really not hard to understand.independent
?nd??p?nd(?)nt/Submit
adjective
1.
free from outside control; not subject to another's authority.
Being in the EU is not free of control or authority by others. It's kind of the reason we just voted out of it.
Rejoining the EU at least they can leave whenever THEY want to by simply holding a referendum at a time of their choosing.
You're starting to sound like the spurned husband now
andy_s said:
gadgetmac said:
Seriously?
Independence from one partner doesn't mean you don't want ANY partner. Sturgeon and her followers just don't want England as their partner.
A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make. It's not the husbands right to say that she should have no other husbands in the future.
Thinking levels are plummeting since the referendum.
And Brussels is a better partner than Westminster? Led by an autonomous, un-elected cabal who wouldn't want Scotland anyway? Really?Independence from one partner doesn't mean you don't want ANY partner. Sturgeon and her followers just don't want England as their partner.
A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make. It's not the husbands right to say that she should have no other husbands in the future.
Thinking levels are plummeting since the referendum.
English posters on here seem to have a problem with the term 'their choice'. But didn't seem to have the same problem with the term 'our choice' some days ago.
gadgetmac said:
Rejoining the EU at least they can leave whenever THEY want to by simply holding a referendum at a time of their choosing.
You remember we had a referendum just 20 months ago? Where we made OUR choice?The choice that was for a generation?
I'm f
king sick of the SNP, Sturgeon, Salmond and their rag tag bunch of deluded fknugget supporters. No means no. Go away, take some time, have a think and come back to us in a decade. Until then fk off.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff