Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[Sheets Tabuer]

contango said:

Financially there is less reason for scotland to consider a referendum now anyway.

So what, they regain sovereignty and get rid of a government they don't vote for.

Whats that worth?

[johnxjsc1985]

REALIST123 said:

I think she's on her own case, first and foremost, like they all are.

Anyway, good luck to you all in trying to stay if the UK leaves but, in all honesty, I can't see how the EU would want another member with a 10% budget deficit to feed.

Don't they have enough lame ducks?

I think the Scots haven't worked this out yet and what if the dreadful English turn their backs on Scotland.

[Cobnapint]

fluffnik said:

The people of Scotland want to stay in the EU....

'Some' of the people in Scotland want to stay in the EU.

Why that is, I've no idea. In fact I would say most if the 'some' have no idea either.

[glazbagun]

johnxjsc1985 said:

I think the Scots haven't worked this out yet and what if the dreadful English turn their backs on Scotland.

This is why I think we're doomed either way. The English right have nothing to lose by turning their backs on Scotland, and the SNP don't really either. Division has been a hallmark of UK politics since the death of New Labour and it benefits both the SNP and Tories to the detriment of almost everyone.

Staying in the EU with a trade barrier to England would be a disaster too, however.

I wonder how long the UK will hold onto Gibraltar now. If the UK wants to get funny about free movement, Spain can close the door and offer them more than the UK ever will.

[Jockman]

Cobnapint said:

fluffnik said:

The people of Scotland want to stay in the EU....

'Some' of the people in Scotland want to stay in the EU.

Why that is, I've no idea. In fact I would say most if the 'some' have no idea either.

Indeed. When the question is binary it can lead to an over-emphasis on the response to one of the 2 questions.

[technodup]

fluffnik said:

I see only a strong political leader with a better mandate than most doing her job.

Where is she 'leading' us to? She can't answer that, so I'm not sure how you could class it as leadership. She's doing a lot of talking, not sure anybody who matters is listening though. A strong political leader gets things done, all she does is threaten to get things done. Big difference.

And her job actually is to run Scotland. As is. As democratically voted for twice. She would be better advised to concentrate on that than to wander round Europe with the violin out, whoring herself to anyone who'll give her five minutes. Embarrassing tbh.

As r11co says, she's a two time loser desperate to stay relevant. She turns my fking stomach.

[Troubleatmill]

glazbagun said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

I think the Scots haven't worked this out yet and what if the dreadful English turn their backs on Scotland.

This is why I think we're doomed either way. The English right have nothing to lose by turning their backs on Scotland, and the SNP don't really either. Division has been a hallmark of UK politics since the death of New Labour and it benefits both the SNP and Tories to the detriment of almost everyone.

Staying in the EU with a trade barrier to England would be a disaster too, however.

I wonder how long the UK will hold onto Gibraltar now. If the UK wants to get funny about free movement, Spain can close the door and offer them more than the UK ever will.

I'm pretty sure the locals managed just fine before the free movement stuff kicked in.
But if the locals decide they want to be ruled by Spain..... I can't see anyone standing in their way.

[Sheets Tabuer]

contango said:

If they leave the UK without a certainty of receiving financial support from the Eu, they are literally broke!

How will they fund their new currency with available reserves held at their central bank. How will they borrow with such a deficit?

It's the same reason why petulant teenagers don't just leave home to live the high life without available means to support their future.
Sometimes you just have to be realistic, which would likely be the conclusion of scottish independence voters should they have a vote on freedom anytime soon...Sadly!

Yes there is a compelling argument to stay but having your country back, knowing that you're not having laws imposed upon you by a government you didn't elect, controlling your own destiny.

Exciting isn't it?

Yes there will be 5-10 years of uncertainty but the Scots are a canny lot and I'm sure they will adapt and their future will be even better without the UK.

[tenfour]

fluffnik said:

That's said, being Her Majesty's Loyal anything would stick in my craw...

So that's what this is really about: you're anti-monarchy.

But yet, wouldn't Scotland be a strangely empty and dull nation without a monarchy? It's not like there's any shortage of precedence there.

[Rickeh]

fluffnik said:

I see only a strong political leader with a better mandate than most doing her job.

The people of Scotland want to stay in the EU, to a greater extent than they want to stay in the UK, our FM is on the case.

She has my full support.

This. I didn't vote SNP but she's doing a cracking job of standing up for Scotland whilst the rest of British politics is a shambles.

JP Morgan expecting Scotland independent with their own currency by 2019. Nice cheap currency, boost in exports and manufacturing, oil sold in dollars so a huge boost for the oil and gas industry. Relocation of companies wishing to have access to EU markets. Magic.

[tenfour]

fluffnik said:

I see only a strong political leader with a better mandate than most doing her job.

The people of Scotland want to stay in the EU, to a greater extent than they want to stay in the UK, our FM is on the case.

She has my full support.

You're deluded.

Whether Scotland stays in the EU or not is not within its powers to decide. That decision rests entirely on whether the next PM hits the Article 50 button.

Nicola is a blower of smoke. Nothing else. She has no authority to determine Scotland's exit from the UK.

And for the record, 60-odd % of the Scottish people (or those who could be arsed to vote) elected to stay in the EU. I wasn't one of them.

Edited by tenfour on Wednesday 29th June 20:21

[Axionknight]

Yeah, magic usually happens in fantasy land.

[johnxjsc1985]

Troubleatmill said:

I'm pretty sure the locals managed just fine before the free movement stuff kicked in.
But if the locals decide they want to be ruled by Spain..... I can't see anyone standing in their way.

I think Spain wanted to share the responsibility with us.

[Sheets Tabuer]

contango said:

I am not quite sure you read or understood my reply? Where are they going to get the funding over this 5-10 years of uncertainty?
Maybe I haven't understood and you are in fact a leading advisor to the snp on independence?

What you haven't understood is they will be free to make their own way and that is the point I'm making. The future will be theirs to make, good or bad, rich or poor. It will cost them but what price would you pay to be the master in your own house?

[johnxjsc1985]

Sheets Tabuer said:

What you haven't understood is they will be free to make their own way and that is the point I'm making. The future will be theirs to make, good or bad, rich or poor. It will cost them but what price would you pay to be the master in your own house?

what happens when the house is repossessed .

[tenfour]

Rickeh said:

JP Morgan expecting Scotland independent with their own currency by 2019. Nice cheap currency, boost in exports and manufacturing, oil sold in dollars so a huge boost for the oil and gas industry. Relocation of companies wishing to have access to EU markets. Magic.

I can only surmise that JP Morgan have been at the crack pipe. Either that, or Nicola's got her hand down Mr Morgan's pants. That 'outlook' is so farcical, it makes my wife's story books (she teaches three-year-olds) look like War & Peace.

In fact, I'm going to bookmark this quote, and revisit it in 2019.

[hidetheelephants]

Sheets Tabuer said:

contango said:

I am not quite sure you read or understood my reply? Where are they going to get the funding over this 5-10 years of uncertainty?
Maybe I haven't understood and you are in fact a leading advisor to the snp on independence?

What you haven't understood is they will be free to make their own way and that is the point I'm making. The future will be theirs to make, good or bad, rich or poor. It will cost them but what price would you pay to be the master in your own house?

About 15-20% reduction in government spending is what it will take, so not quite Greece but a lot of pain; strangely this is never mentioned when she's waxing lyrical about Scotland ploughing its own furrow.

[Sheets Tabuer]

hidetheelephants said:

Sheets Tabuer said:

contango said:

I am not quite sure you read or understood my reply? Where are they going to get the funding over this 5-10 years of uncertainty?
Maybe I haven't understood and you are in fact a leading advisor to the snp on independence?

What you haven't understood is they will be free to make their own way and that is the point I'm making. The future will be theirs to make, good or bad, rich or poor. It will cost them but what price would you pay to be the master in your own house?

About 15-20% reduction in government spending is what it will take, so not quite Greece but a lot of pain; strangely this is never mentioned when she's waxing lyrical about Scotland ploughing its own furrow.

Agreed, it will make your eyes water.

[s2art]

hidetheelephants said:

About 15-20% reduction in government spending is what it will take, so not quite Greece but a lot of pain; strangely this is never mentioned when she's waxing lyrical about Scotland ploughing its own furrow.

It will be worse then that because a big tranche of Scotlands finance sector would move over the border to where the vast bulk of their customers are, not to mention the bulk of their liability will be in Sterling.

Edited to add. Surprised there isnt more mention of this.

[technodup]

Rickeh said:

This. I didn't vote SNP but she's doing a cracking job of standing up for Scotland whilst the rest of British politics is a shambles.

'Standing up for Scotland'. One of those nothing phrases so often used by blowhards and talkers of utter ste. What's she actually achieving?

She's a loser. She's desperately trying to find any means of keeping the faithful plebs happy without having to call yet another referendum. Why is she not calling it? Because she'll lose it. Again.

And that is her finished.