Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

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Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
confused_buyer said:
Edinburger said:
Apart from the anti-Scots sentiments, that's a good way of putting it.
If anything came across anti-Scots then it wasn't intended.

I just don't understand why a race of people who were always considered "canny" (and I speak as an Englishman whose entire heritage is Scottish and posses a very Scottish name so I have plenty of Scot genes!) wouldn't want to sit quiet and see how things pan out before jumping either or anyway.
That's a fair question.

I guess if we sit around to see what happens, it might then become too late to do anything about it.

No one can dispute that Scotland (and other areas) voted differently from the majority so political leaders are surely obliged to try to address that. And, if you're pro-independence, it perhaps emphasises the need for independence.

Big Rod

6,198 posts

215 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Big Rod said:
There's a simple solution...

...Have England, (possibly excluding London), and Ireland to go independent which would mean they would be leaving the UK and leave Scotland, Wales and London in the UK so Scotland wouldn't be bounced out of the EU.

Just thinking out loud. getmecoat
Well, apparently talks are in place between the leaders of Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar about creating a separate state which remains part of the EU.

And no, I'm not joking.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun...
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/london-wan...
http://europe.newsweek.com/how-scotland-and-n-irel...
I know, but that involves leaving then re-applying again doesn't it?

What I'm talking about is having those regions who voted to exit declare independence from the UK leaving Scotland et al as the rUK which could potentially keep its place in the EU.

Like I say, I was just thinking out loud. I doubt it's viable.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Edinburger said:
confused_buyer said:
So Sturgeon wants out of a Union which gives Scotland:

(a) Free and easy access to the market 70% of its trade is with.
(b) Subsidises it to the tune of £15bn a year.
(c) Allows it influence and say way out of proportion to its size in that Union.

and wants in with one which:

(a) It only does 15% of its trade with.
(b) Will probably charge it to be a member of.
(c) It will have pretty much zero say in.
(d) Will keep it hanging around for at least 7 years to be a member of.

Sensible stuff.
Apart from the anti-Scots sentiments, that's a good way of putting it.
Maybe I am missing something, could you point out the anti-scot sentiment.
This is somewhat subjective but for me it was some of the words used e.g. "subsidises it" = poor wee Scotland.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Big Rod said:
Edinburger said:
Big Rod said:
There's a simple solution...

...Have England, (possibly excluding London), and Ireland to go independent which would mean they would be leaving the UK and leave Scotland, Wales and London in the UK so Scotland wouldn't be bounced out of the EU.

Just thinking out loud. getmecoat
Well, apparently talks are in place between the leaders of Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar about creating a separate state which remains part of the EU.

And no, I'm not joking.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun...
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/london-wan...
http://europe.newsweek.com/how-scotland-and-n-irel...
I know, but that involves leaving then re-applying again doesn't it?

What I'm talking about is having those regions who voted to exit declare independence from the UK leaving Scotland et al as the rUK which could potentially keep its place in the EU.

Like I say, I was just thinking out loud. I doubt it's viable.
Not sure - this is unchartered territory...?

What if - just thinking out loud here - Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar combine to become a new state with continued EU membership (given the extreme economic importance of London)?

England and Wales retain the GB name outwith the EU as per the democratic wishes of the population and 'New Country' remain within the EU.

Thoughts?

Big Rod

6,198 posts

215 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Not sure - this is unchartered territory...?

What if - just thinking out loud here - Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar combine to become a new state with continued EU membership (given the extreme economic importance of London)?

England and Wales retain the GB name outwith the EU as per the democratic wishes of the population and 'New Country' remain within the EU.

Thoughts?
Well, isn't that what Turdgeon is trying to achieve and being chucked a resounding 'deefie'?

Nick Grant

5,409 posts

234 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
England and Wales retain the GB name

Thoughts?
GB is the name of the land mass we inhabit, not a country.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Nick Grant said:
Edinburger said:
England and Wales retain the GB name

Thoughts?
GB is the name of the land mass we inhabit, not a country.
But the United Kingdom would no longer exist.

Let's call it WalenglandminusLondon. hehe

ETA By the way, Wikipedia define Great Britain as "an island separated from the European mainland by the English Channel and North Sea. It comprises the nations of England, Scotland and Wales."

Edited by Edinburger on Thursday 30th June 09:41

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
boxxob said:
confused_buyer said:
So Sturgeon wants out of a Union which gives Scotland:

(a) Free and easy access to the market 70% of its trade is with.
(b) Subsidises it to the tune of £15bn a year.
(c) Allows it influence and say way out of proportion to its size in that Union.

and wants in with one which:

(a) It only does 15% of its trade with.
(b) Will probably charge it to be a member of.
(c) It will have pretty much zero say in.
(d) Will keep it hanging around for at least 7 years to be a member of.

Sensible stuff.
sabotage your country for your ambitions for power...and a wee bit of pantomime hatred of the english
nono For. Most. People. It. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Hatred. Of. England. Or. The. English. You're. Really. Not. That. Important. banghead

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Big Rod said:
Well, isn't that what Turdgeon is trying to achieve and being chucked a resounding 'deefie'?
Well we don't know, do we? All we know is that the media and press choose to make up or tell us.

NRS

22,080 posts

200 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Not sure - this is unchartered territory...?

What if - just thinking out loud here - Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar combine to become a new state with continued EU membership (given the extreme economic importance of London)?

England and Wales retain the GB name outwith the EU as per the democratic wishes of the population and 'New Country' remain within the EU.

Thoughts?
What have you been smoking?

You spend the entire time complaining about those Londoners making all the decisions for Scotland, and yet suddenly now we will be in a union with them?

You really couldn't make it up.

France and Spain are going to block any decision for Scotland or Ireland to join in a nice way because of their own situation at home. Now add Gilbraltar and it's a brilliant oppurtunity for them to finally get it - what they always wanted. No way they are letting this happen without a fight.


Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
NRS said:
Edinburger said:
Not sure - this is unchartered territory...?

What if - just thinking out loud here - Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar combine to become a new state with continued EU membership (given the extreme economic importance of London)?

England and Wales retain the GB name outwith the EU as per the democratic wishes of the population and 'New Country' remain within the EU.

Thoughts?
What have you been smoking?

You spend the entire time complaining about those Londoners making all the decisions for Scotland, and yet suddenly now you will be in a union with them?

You really couldn't make it up.

France and Spain are going to block any decision for Scotland or Ireland to join in a nice way because of their own situation at home. Now add Gilbraltar and it's a brilliant oppurtunity for them to finally get it - what they always wanted. No way they are letting this happen without a fight.
You really, really don't know me. rolleyes

I'm not saying I want that to happen or that I think it will happen - I'm saying it's on the table.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Can everyone please note it's not Ireland - that's an island comprising of the Republic of Ireland (independent country) and Northern Ireland (part of the UK).

It's Northern Ireland's future which is the question here.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
When will Sturgeon report on her visit to Brussels.
Both Spain and France seem dead against any discussion on this matter.
If she is so concerned and so keen to remain in Europe the option to call for another Referendum is her only option.
I feel sorry for the people of Scotland they must be sick of all of this.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
johnxjsc1985 said:
When will Sturgeon report on her visit to Brussels.
Both Spain and France seem dead against any discussion on this matter.
If she is so concerned and so keen to remain in Europe the option to call for another Referendum is her only option.
I feel sorry for the people of Scotland they must be sick of all of this.
Yes mate, we are. grumpy

NRS

22,080 posts

200 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
You really, really don't know me. rolleyes

I'm not saying I want that to happen or that I think it will happen - I'm saying it's on the table.
"You" was the SNP in general. The control from London (and England) was supposedly the whole reason for independence. Not racism.

It may be on the table, but everytime it appears on the table someone else will pick it up and rip it into tiny little pieces immediately.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Yes mate, we are. grumpy
I think a blackout on ALL Politicians for 3 months would give us a break from all of this.It is they who divide this Country not the people.

jb2410

400 posts

110 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Can everyone please note it's not Ireland - that's an island comprising of the Republic of Ireland (independent country) and Northern Ireland (part of the UK).

It's Northern Ireland's future which is the question here.
yes

The remain vote here was much narrower than Scotland's, and I suspect given a choice between remaining in the United Kingdom outside Europe or joining a struggling Republic of Ireland inside, it would be a comfortable vote to stay in the UK. UK and Irish governments have both ruled out a border poll anyway, so it's really a non starter (I hope).


PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
PRTVR said:
Edinburger said:
confused_buyer said:
So Sturgeon wants out of a Union which gives Scotland:

(a) Free and easy access to the market 70% of its trade is with.
(b) Subsidises it to the tune of £15bn a year.
(c) Allows it influence and say way out of proportion to its size in that Union.

and wants in with one which:

(a) It only does 15% of its trade with.
(b) Will probably charge it to be a member of.
(c) It will have pretty much zero say in.
(d) Will keep it hanging around for at least 7 years to be a member of.

Sensible stuff.
Apart from the anti-Scots sentiments, that's a good way of putting it.
Maybe I am missing something, could you point out the anti-scot sentiment.
This is somewhat subjective but for me it was some of the words used e.g. "subsidises it" = poor wee Scotland.
OK I never realized that, perhaps we should stop the subsidies it it is causing problems?

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Not sure - this is unchartered territory...?

What if - just thinking out loud here - Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar combine to become a new state with continued EU membership (given the extreme economic importance of London)?

England and Wales retain the GB name outwith the EU as per the democratic wishes of the population and 'New Country' remain within the EU.

Thoughts?
Engage brain.

London to become a country.
So to clarify you'd have a hard boarder on the M25? You do realise the hundreds of thousands who commute into London every day from Home Counties passport control every day. It's not practical first and foremost - plus say the Euro tunnel which would then cross EU to England to EU England could if it chose stop services.

Engage brain Scotland boarder how would that work?


Lastly UK govt has the final say not its areas otherwise hey guess what Oxford might want in but you know what Whiltshire doesn't / Oxford could be landlocked. Nuts.
We vote as a whole country.

Imagine every time you disagree with the EU and a few other countries do too you split off and make a pact together?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
csd19 said:
Ahh but how many billions will we be further into the st by that point?
It doesn't matter, because her argument will be that England/Westminster/the home counties pay for Scottish independence and any financial impacts that result.

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