Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
Jockman said:
fluffnik said:
That might be a future ambition of a senior civil servant, which is what Junker is, and some others, but any member state can veto any extension of powers.
Vetos are negotiable.s2kjock said:
fluffnik said:
The EU does very, very little ruling whilst providing lots of services for its members for very low cost.
What services do the EU provide us with, and how do they manage it for such a low cost? Someone must be paying for it if members are getting such a great deal, or is it simply an issue of pooling resources and economies of scale?s2kjock said:
fluffnik said:
The UK however is expensive and obtrusive, tying us into bad post-imperial foreign policy, parking its expensive and pointless nuclear cock extensions next to our biggest city, etc, etc.
Does France still have its own cock extension?technodup said:
France is a nuclear state. So it's clearly fine to be part of the French/EU nuclear deterrent presumably because it isn't located in Scotland and wasn't 'put there by the English'?
France has its own imperial demons to exorcise.technodup said:
As for your 'points' re democracy when Sturgeon/SNP/Yesfannies start to respect the democratic decision of 2014 we might start to take you more seriously. But for obvious reasons I'll not hold my breath.
Are we in the process of becoming independent?No!
I guess the 2014 result is being respected then.
I don't expect you to stop pursuing you political ends by democratic means, you should have no problem with me doing likewise, though our ends differ somewhat.
fluffnik said:
Are we in the process of becoming independent?
No!
I guess the 2014 result is being respected then.
I don't expect you to stop pursuing you political ends by democratic means, you should have no problem with me doing likewise, though our ends differ somewhat.
Fluffy SNP only exist to achieve Indy Scotland that is the sole reason for the existence of the party otherwise they are fairly centre right (free persctiptions to millionaires) (free uni education to millionaires) (free OAP care homes for millionaires) all at he cost of lower investment in the police and NHS - far more right wing than Torys could get away with. No!
I guess the 2014 result is being respected then.
I don't expect you to stop pursuing you political ends by democratic means, you should have no problem with me doing likewise, though our ends differ somewhat.
s2art said:
fluffnik said:
Sadly yes, though at least theirs is genuinely independent with expenditure going into the French rather than, in large part, US economy...
Tell us then, what percentage of the total is this 'large part'?We give a big wedge to the Yanks, the French get the highly profitable Ariane rocket as a by product.
fluffnik said:
The whole cost of the missile system and its maintenance.
We give a big wedge to the Yanks, the French get the highly profitable Ariane rocket as a by product.
But we have incurred no R&D it's no different to an F1 team buying a factory engine - if it's a good engine and cheaper than you could build it for and it works within timescales I don't see the issue. It's a basic make v buy decision but utterly independent - thy don't have a deactivate button in it and potentially we could use it against the supplier of the weapons in theory but I cannot ever seeWe give a big wedge to the Yanks, the French get the highly profitable Ariane rocket as a by product.
fluffnik said:
s2art said:
fluffnik said:
Sadly yes, though at least theirs is genuinely independent with expenditure going into the French rather than, in large part, US economy...
Tell us then, what percentage of the total is this 'large part'?We give a big wedge to the Yanks, the French get the highly profitable Ariane rocket as a by product.
Welshbeef said:
fluffnik said:
Are we in the process of becoming independent?
No!
I guess the 2014 result is being respected then.
I don't expect you to stop pursuing you political ends by democratic means, you should have no problem with me doing likewise, though our ends differ somewhat.
Fluffy SNP only exist to achieve Indy Scotland that is the sole reason for the existence of the party No!
I guess the 2014 result is being respected then.
I don't expect you to stop pursuing you political ends by democratic means, you should have no problem with me doing likewise, though our ends differ somewhat.
...and they have a much greater plurality of support in Scotland than any other party in any part of the UK.
fluffnik said:
They provide, for example, standards bodies and the like, avoiding duplication of bureaucracies and multiple geographic variations of specifications.
You had four hours and that was the best you could come up with?fluffnik said:
France has its own imperial demons to exorcise.
What about the Dutch? The Belgians? The Italians? The Spanish? The Portuguese?Having a problem with colonisation is fine. I'm no historian but half the EU had their own wee empires. So using it as a stick to hit Britain, whilst crawling over to arselick the others smacks of something...
technodup said:
hat about the Dutch? The Belgians? The Italians? The Spanish? The Portuguese?
Having a problem with colonisation is fine. I'm no historian but half the EU had their own wee empires. So using it as a stick to hit Britain, whilst crawling over to arselick the others smacks of something...
I have never forgiven the Romans and don't even start me with the Vikings.History is best left in the past.Having a problem with colonisation is fine. I'm no historian but half the EU had their own wee empires. So using it as a stick to hit Britain, whilst crawling over to arselick the others smacks of something...
fluffnik said:
s2kjock said:
fluffnik said:
The EU does very, very little ruling whilst providing lots of services for its members for very low cost.
What services do the EU provide us with, and how do they manage it for such a low cost? Someone must be paying for it if members are getting such a great deal, or is it simply an issue of pooling resources and economies of scale?fluffnik said:
We give a big wedge to the Yanks, the French get the highly profitable Ariane rocket as a by product.
France's reason for having Nuclear weapons in the first place was that they didn't trust the Americans or the British to push the button. They envisaged a scenario where the Soviet Union invaded Europe up to Calais but like Hitler never went any further and USA/UK decided to live with it rather than obliterating themselves.As France were not even proper NATO members at the time the US declined to help arm them so they had to go alone.
Welshbeef said:
Why would the UK now choose the much higher cost of R&D and fabricating from scratch over paying a margin to someone else who has an on the shelf option which is suitable to the requirements? Added to the fact it draws those bonds even closer with the USA
Because the yanks have some rather restrictive terms of sale and will also only provide obsolete equipment. Notice the versions of the F16 provided to Israel. Welshbeef said:
So, 5 years of increased austerity to fund investment in education, government capex, and tax cuts for business and we'd actually be fine if we left the EU?Is this Project Fear or Project Honesty?
Is this the sort of austerity the SNP vigorously campaign against or not?
I'm confused
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