Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[r11co]

Edinburger said:

You're just making yourself look naive and, quite frankly, silly.

It isn't the PH commentators who have had two flagship pieces of legislation struck-down by the very scrutinising body that they are now making a very public display of wanting to remain a part of while criticising those who want to leave it.

A government that wastes millions drafting, 'debating' and then passing demonstrably useless legislation is naive, stupid and incompetent, regardless of their motivations.

Edinburger said:

- only supported by stupid people

If the cap fits?! Anyone who still thinks the SNP are competent in the role of government is also demonstrably stupid.

IMO the reasons the SNP should not be in government have long since transcended purely constitutional issues. Bottom line is they are just st at the job.

Edited by r11co on Friday 19th August 07:28

[technodup]

Edinburger said:

All these years on and you STILL think the SNP and/or Scottish nationalism is all about:

- blatant racism
- a hatred of the English
- only supported by stupid people

I was on the 45 FB page this week and someone made a comment about 'the bd English'. There were countless other replies and not one pulled him up on it, so either they all agree or if some don't they're too scared to disagree for the inevitable incoming onslaught from the others. And it wasn't an isolated case.

Then there's the obsession with being inclusive with everyone in Europe but quite specifically NOT England.

Add that to the various references to 'Westminster', 'Tories', the way Salmond spits out 'south of the border' and so on which are quite clearly SNP synonyms for the English.

Do you want me to go on?

And yes, I am a happy Brexiter.

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

Oh my god!! What's wrong with you lot?!

All these years on and you STILL think the SNP and/or Scottish nationalism is all about:

- blatant racism
- a hatred of the English
- only supported by stupid people

You're just making yourself look naive and, quite frankly, silly. There was even a mention of the German Nazi party there! Dear oh dear.

PS And techno is a Brexiter...!!

Would you agree that your world view has to be quite distorted, if you wished to cease interdependence with the country with whom you share a small island, language, currency, army, border force, central bank, etc in favour of interdependence with almost every other nation in the continent? (Meaning no language sharing, currency upheaval, questionable trade with your largest trading partner by far, border controls at Berwick, new army, new central bank, general "haven't got a clue what's happening next Tuesday" living.)

I could go on, but it's clear one must really hate something in the UK to want to leave it. It can't be dependence leading the desire for so called "independence" so perhaps it's the other people on our island?

[mikal83]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

Oh my god!! What's wrong with you lot?!

All these years on and you STILL think the SNP and/or Scottish nationalism is all about:

- blatant racism
- a hatred of the English
- only supported by stupid people

You're just making yourself look naive and, quite frankly, silly. There was even a mention of the German Nazi party there! Dear oh dear.

PS And techno is a Brexiter...!!

Would you agree that your world view has to be quite distorted, if you wished to cease interdependence with the country with whom you share a small island, language, currency, army, border force, central bank, etc in favour of interdependence with almost every other nation in the continent? (Meaning no language sharing, currency upheaval, questionable trade with your largest trading partner by far, border controls at Berwick, new army, new central bank, general "haven't got a clue what's happening next Tuesday" living.)

I could go on, but it's clear one must really hate something in the UK to want to leave it. It can't be dependence leading the desire for so called "independence" so perhaps it's the other people on our island?

Anyone, anything, anywhere BUT the English. Even if it costs more.

[r11co]

technodup said:

Add that to the various references to 'Westminster', 'Tories', the way Salmond spits out 'south of the border' and so on which are quite clearly SNP synonyms for the English.

Cybernats are damaging the independence cause, says former Alex Salmond aide.

Former Policy Adviser to Mr Salmond Alex Bell said:

Very little of the last ten years’ legislative programmes have nation-built. That is, they haven’t set a foundation for Scotland to develop into the next 20, 30 years, and do not have a supporting rationale with it. There is a great deal of fine words about some of those policies, about early years intervention... and now the education system. But I’m afraid to say that the party I’ve supported for my life time isn’t very good at delivering hard, substantial, evidence-based change.

In other words, SNP aide realises SNP is xenophobic and st at government too.

[fluffnik]

A.J.M said:

fluffnik said:

As I said, I don't want anyone deported, but I can't help feeling that losing the brexiters would have a smaller adverse effect on society and the economy than turfing out the sociable and hard working Europeans who've chosen to make their lives here.

What happens if the briexiters are sociable and hard working people as well?
Do they still get turfed out?

It would be an exceedingly bad thing to turf out any brexiter, even the most knuckle dragging xenophobic ones.

It would be every bit as bad a thing to turf out any EU citizen who has chosen to make their lives here.

I think it was disgraceful that EU citizens were disenfranchised in the EU referendum, for exactly the same reasons that I was glad that they had a vote in the Scottish referendum.

[fluffnik]

technodup said:

fluffnik said:

The SNP have always had their eyes on the prize, the end of the UK.

I thought independence was the prize? Because they are not one and the same, the UK would remain. Minus the chip on its shoulder.

Since the kingdoms "united" to form the UK are the Scottish and English( incorporating Welsh) kingdoms, if either of those entities "leave" there ceases to be an UK.

technodup said:

So either you and other SNP supporters are thick as fk, or we're being misled. Which is it?

Neither.

[hidetheelephants]

fluffnik said:

It would be every bit as bad a thing to turf out any EU citizen who has chosen to make their lives here.

I think it was disgraceful that EU citizens were disenfranchised in the EU referendum.

They're not going anywhere, no politician would dare sign off on it and the legal action to fight it would drag on for decades.

They weren't disenfranchised but carry on spreading grievance where there is none.

[s2art]

fluffnik said:

technodup said:

fluffnik said:

The SNP have always had their eyes on the prize, the end of the UK.

I thought independence was the prize? Because they are not one and the same, the UK would remain. Minus the chip on its shoulder.

Since the kingdoms "united" to form the UK are the Scottish and English( incorporating Welsh) kingdoms, if either of those entities "leave" there ceases to be an UK.

Wrong. N.I. counts as well. Separate Union treaty.

[fluffnik]

s2art said:

fluffnik said:

Since the kingdoms "united" to form the UK are the Scottish and English( incorporating Welsh) kingdoms, if either of those entities "leave" there ceases to be an UK.

Wrong. N.I. counts as well. Separate Union treaty.

N.I.'s constitutional position is actually pretty incoherent, though that's not for this thread, however, there are a couple of salient points in that regard:

• The Union with the Kingdom of Ireland was dissolved.
• The Kingdom of Ireland ceased to be when it was replaced by the Republic of Ireland.
• The only kingdoms in the current UK are those of England (incorporating Wales) and Scotland.

[fluffnik]

hidetheelephants said:

fluffnik said:

It would be every bit as bad a thing to turf out any EU citizen who has chosen to make their lives here.

I think it was disgraceful that EU citizens were disenfranchised in the EU referendum.

They're not going anywhere, no politician would dare sign off on it and the legal action to fight it would drag on for decades.

They weren't disenfranchised but carry on spreading grievance where there is none.

Since EU citizens, along with 16 and 17 year olds, were quite properly enfranchised for the Scottish referendum, a constitutional matter, but denied a vote in the next constitutional referendum, what would you call it if not disenfranchised?

...and quite a few of us have a grievance about what was done to our friends, neighbours, and colleagues who were denied a say in their own futures.

[Alpacaman]

Edinburger said:

Oh my god!! What's wrong with you lot?!

All these years on and you STILL think the SNP and/or Scottish nationalism is all about:

- blatant racism
- a hatred of the English
- only supported by stupid people

You're just making yourself look naive and, quite frankly, silly. There was even a mention of the German Nazi party there! Dear oh dear.

PS And techno is a Brexiter...!!

As an English person ,who moved to Scotland because I fell in love with the place, can I say I am sick to death of you coming on here trying to claim the SNP and their supporters don't hate the English. Take it from me they are full of hatred, to the point where I no longer want to live here, just because you are blind to it doesn't mean it's not happening every day.

[technodup]

fluffnik said:

Since EU citizens, along with 16 and 17 year olds, were quite properly enfranchised for the Scottish referendum, a constitutional matter, but denied a vote in the next constitutional referendum, what would you call it if not disenfranchised?

They were only enfranchised because it was a diddy wee Scottish vote and the SNP thought it would suit them.

Oops.

But you must be enjoying the Olympics, what with Team GB doing so well and the Union Flag draped across every athlete and waved from every crowd. Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it?

Because like it or not, that's what you are.

[Leithen]

technodup said:

fluffnik said:

Since EU citizens, along with 16 and 17 year olds, were quite properly enfranchised for the Scottish referendum, a constitutional matter, but denied a vote in the next constitutional referendum, what would you call it if not disenfranchised?

They were only enfranchised because it was a diddy wee Scottish vote and the SNP thought it would suit them.

Oops.

But you must be enjoying the Olympics, what with Team GB doing so well and the Union Flag draped across every athlete and waved from every crowd. Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it?

Because like it or not, that's what you are.

Enfranchising "young people" whilst at the same time appointing a named person over them... ? You couldn't make it up.

[General Price]

technodup said:

hey were only enfranchised because it was a diddy wee Scottish vote and the SNP thought it would suit them.

Oops.

But you must be enjoying the Olympics, what with Team GB doing so well and the Union Flag draped across every athlete and waved from every crowd. Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it?

Because like it or not, that's what you are.

Look at that lad,every scot will so proud of him.

[simoid]

Leithen said:

Enfranchising "young people" whilst at the same time appointing a named person over them... ? You couldn't make it up.

Nutshell. Trust young folk to vote but don't trust their parents to look after them.

[technodup]

Ludicrous when you think about it. But then consistency has never been their thing.

[confused_buyer]

fluffnik said:

...and quite a few of us have a grievance about what was done to our friends, neighbours, and colleagues who were denied a say in their own futures.

And when those people do get a vote, and fail to vote the way you want, you deny them then democratic right to have their choice accepted.

[Hainey]

confused_buyer said:

fluffnik said:

...and quite a few of us have a grievance about what was done to our friends, neighbours, and colleagues who were denied a say in their own futures.

And when those people do get a vote, and fail to vote the way you want, you deny them then democratic right to have their choice accepted.

Such has always been the way of the nationalist left in every country. This tin pot lot are no different at all.

[s2art]

fluffnik said:

s2art said:

fluffnik said:

Since the kingdoms "united" to form the UK are the Scottish and English( incorporating Welsh) kingdoms, if either of those entities "leave" there ceases to be an UK.

Wrong. N.I. counts as well. Separate Union treaty.

N.I.'s constitutional position is actually pretty incoherent, though that's not for this thread, however, there are a couple of salient points in that regard:

• The Union with the Kingdom of Ireland was dissolved.
• The Kingdom of Ireland ceased to be when it was replaced by the Republic of Ireland.
• The only kingdoms in the current UK are those of England (incorporating Wales) and Scotland.

Wrong again. The treaty was merely modified, not a new treaty. It refers to the kingdom of Ireland, first claimed by Henry VIII. Irish independence merely removed Eire from the claim.