Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
arp1 said:
Why are you English so opposed to Scottish independence? Unless its down to cold hard cash...
Because it would be an expensive (borders, immigration, bureaucracy etc) pain in the butt.Not to mention the flood of refugees. It would make leaving the EU look like a walk in the park. And it is our Great Britain too. arp1 said:
Why are you English so opposed to Scottish independence? Unless its down to cold hard cash...
I am Brittish, a citizen of the united kingdom of Great Brittain, Scotland is as much mine to enjoy as anybody and I don't want this geat nation destroyed by a bunch of idiotic bigots just because the subsidies they receive aren't big enough.Charles de Gaulle said it best, and it describes the snats down to a tee
Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.
arp1 said:
Why are you English so opposed to Scottish independence? Unless its down to cold hard cash...
Because when Scotland goes the way of Greece, they'll end up having to bail you out which will cost far more than the mere billion's your incessant fvcking whining gets from them now. Cobnapint said:
Nothing against the Scots, but if most don't want Independence, and it's generally recognised that the SNP are f
king useless at government - why the flying juddering fook do they keep voting for them..?
Some of us don't. Barring a massive fking useless at government - why the flying juddering fook do they keep voting for them..?k-up on the part of the tories it will be a majority against, as it is it's about 50/50 which is an aye shoogly peg upon which hang your political legacy.arp1 said:
Why are you English so opposed to Scottish independence? Unless its down to cold hard cash...
"you Engliash" a phrase I have not heard since at uni in Scotland and something I have only heard being said by a scottish person about an English person (even though I am Welsh - British etc).There is the nub of it, indy is about hopes an dreams with a good does of racism but not much cold hard fact. Scotland got the chance to choose. It voted to stay part of the UK. AS part of the UK it means Scotland is as much mine "You English" as you might say as it is "You Scottish" as I would not say.
So so heres the thing you had a vote you chose to stay in our club an as a club member I am now saying you cant have another vote as its bad for the club as a whole.
Also if you will recall last time you voted all the major large firms said they would leave an RBS have confirmed that would not change.
What more do you need to know its a dead duck an just a carrot to dangle to the Nats who are so blind to the truth..Scotland alone is not a rich nation..
I like it that you think you are doing the Scots a favour by opposing Scottish independence because you feel you cannot set us on our way into the bright blue yonder because 'you' will 'have' to bail us out 'when' we fail... Ludicrous really, but it's nice to be full of your own self importance. Think of brexit but on a local level really.
arp1 said:
Why are you English so opposed to Scottish independence? Unless its down to cold hard cash...
Because most of us have very good friends who happen to be Scottish, otherwise if we based our judgement on thebile and spite that the SNP spews we would be all for it, and there would be calls for border controls too!!!
arp1 said:
I like it that you think you are doing the Scots a favour by opposing Scottish independence because you feel you cannot set us on our way into the bright blue yonder because 'you' will 'have' to bail us out 'when' we fail... Ludicrous really, but it's nice to be full of your own self importance. Think of brexit but on a local level really.
Been watching bravehart by any chance ???? seriously why have some of you allowed the SNP to play the you're a victim card , and worse still make the rest of the world think Scots are a moaning ,chippy load of ginger s.....Can't say I blame the Scots TBH
A big part of the arguement was scare stories around Scotland not being allowed to stay in the EU. Now that the Brexit liars convinced mostly English to vote that way, it changes the game. A good chance Brexit won't happen but that's another debate.
A large number of Svots would no doubt vote the other way now, I would too if in a pro EU country.
A big part of the arguement was scare stories around Scotland not being allowed to stay in the EU. Now that the Brexit liars convinced mostly English to vote that way, it changes the game. A good chance Brexit won't happen but that's another debate.
A large number of Svots would no doubt vote the other way now, I would too if in a pro EU country.
arp1 said:
I like it that you think you are doing the Scots a favour by opposing Scottish independence because you feel you cannot set us on our way into the bright blue yonder because 'you' will 'have' to bail us out 'when' we fail... Ludicrous really, but it's nice to be full of your own self importance. Think of brexit but on a local level really.
We don't want independence. A referendum and numerous polls since confirm this.That our neighbours agree why independence would be a clusterf
k isn't surprising. It should give you a clue as to it being a bad idea on multiple levels. Better to ask why our government is doing such a poor job with it's current remit and why it is wasting it's time on something so recently voted against.
Jimboka said:
Can't say I blame the Scots TBH
A big part of the arguement was scare stories around Scotland not being allowed to stay in the EU. Now that the Brexit liars convinced mostly English to vote that way, it changes the game. A good chance Brexit won't happen but that's another debate.
A large number of Svots would no doubt vote the other way now, I would too if in a pro EU country.
You seem to forget that the remain campaign also told as many if not more lies than the Brexit campaign, used taxpayers cash to fund a blatantly biased campaign, extended the vote registration deadline to try to swing the vote towards remain, and they STILL lost. My vote to leave was based on the truth about the EU, not on lies from either side.A big part of the arguement was scare stories around Scotland not being allowed to stay in the EU. Now that the Brexit liars convinced mostly English to vote that way, it changes the game. A good chance Brexit won't happen but that's another debate.
A large number of Svots would no doubt vote the other way now, I would too if in a pro EU country.
The irony of this, was that the chance to vote in Scottish independence referendum was only given to the Scots, when it should have been given to the whole UK, But had it been given to the UK as a whole, it is quite possible that Sturgeon `would' have got what she was after.
arp1 said:
Why are you English so opposed to Scottish independence? Unless its down to cold hard cash...
Here's the thing Scotland won't be INDEPENDENT you'll be part of the EU which means you'll be ruled by people further away than Westminster who will not anywhere near as sympathetic about Scotland's needs than the Government.Have a read of the article below to see what you're wanting to join & feed your hard earned money into.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
Jimboka said:
Can't say I blame the Scots TBH
A big part of the arguement was scare stories around Scotland not being allowed to stay in the EU. Now that the Brexit liars convinced mostly English to vote that way, it changes the game. A good chance Brexit won't happen but that's another debate.
A large number of Svots would no doubt vote the other way now, I would too if in a pro EU country.
The trouble is that - assuming Brexit happens - Scottish Independence does not mean Scotland will remain in the EU. It will have to apply to join, accept the Euro, accept Schengen, need a physical border with the rUK, would have to build its own armed forces.A big part of the arguement was scare stories around Scotland not being allowed to stay in the EU. Now that the Brexit liars convinced mostly English to vote that way, it changes the game. A good chance Brexit won't happen but that's another debate.
A large number of Svots would no doubt vote the other way now, I would too if in a pro EU country.
Brexit doesn't change the basic fact that Scotland is better off as part of the UK whether the UK is in the EU or out of it. Arguably, it is even more important that Scotland is part of the Union if the UK is out of the EU than if it is inside it (hence Sturgeon going into melt down over Brexit - she knows that SI is dead in the water if the UK exits).
Used to have - a very grudging - respect for Sturgeon. Now wish she would just shut the fk up and get on with what she was - supposedly - elected to do. Run the country in the best interests of its populace. Doesn't seem to be happening.....
We are a great we country, we have loads to offer, lets gorw, prosper and be great. Indy is now a dead duck. How bloody independent do we need to be post EU exit FFS..........
k up and get on with what she was - supposedly - elected to do. Run the country in the best interests of its populace. Doesn't seem to be happening.....We are a great we country, we have loads to offer, lets gorw, prosper and be great. Indy is now a dead duck. How bloody independent do we need to be post EU exit FFS..........
arp1 said:
I like it that you think you are doing the Scots a favour by opposing Scottish independence because you feel you cannot set us on our way into the bright blue yonder because 'you' will 'have' to bail us out 'when' we fail... Ludicrous really, but it's nice to be full of your own self importance. Think of brexit but on a local level really.
It's not ludicrous though is it? The financial figures just don't stack up - even the most intellectually challenged must be able to see that. Of course Scotland can make a go of independence but only at a level of austerity and reduction in living standards hitherto not experienced. Scotland needs the Barnett formula and the rUK underwriting its massive debts to 'stay afloat'. Scotland cannot manage at its current standard of living if just the Barnett subsidy is removed let alone all the other problems of no own currency, no central bank etc.Indeed, the standards of education, health and policing etc are reducing significantly now under the incompetence of the SNP even with all the financial support!
The reliance on using the pound as its currency alone makes a total mockery of independence - Scotland's financial position will effectively be governed by rUK and the BOE - how is this real independence?
Just where are Sotland going to make up the financial shortfall to keep going as is? Neither Sturgeon or Salmond have explained this in any way, yet alone any credible way. Until this very, very basic question is answered your dream of independence remains just that - a dream and not a very credible one and just one for the hard of thinking.
Brexit is a completely different situation. UK Is a net contributor to the EU it is leaving. Scotland is a net drain on the UK it wants to leave.
Personally, I have two main reasons for opposing Scottish independence 1) I have relatives in Scotland and I do not want them plunged into a disaster; and 2) it is only a matter of time before the rUK, and my taxes, will be required for the inevitable bail out.
arp1 said:
Why are you English so opposed to Scottish independence? Unless its down to cold hard cash...
I'm Scottish, born here, lived here.I oppose it because it's a bulls
t idea dragged up from the past.Actually look at it properly.
White paper was a lie, it was full of errors and bulls
t, economy figures picked out the air and then taken as gospel.Even the writers have said it was full of pish. It's bad when the people who made it up say it's a load of crap.
Good job it didn't cost the tax payer any money to make though...
Fat Ecks statement about EU information, £20k was wasted hiding this "information" before Nippy had to admit it was a lie. The 2 most important government ministers in the Scottish assembly, both working on a massive lie to the Scottish people.... What a sad state of affairs
.
Then the farse over oil prices, "a conservative estimate" of $120 a barrel. Aye, that f
king went well didn't it?in 2 years we have seen over 75,000 redundancies in the oil industry and the wholesale collapse of any revenue that would come from it.
5th richest economy? Jesus wept. People believed that s
te.How about the small matter of the claim of the whole set up cost being only £250 million. A figure pulled from the air and then once again, taken for gospel by the Great Unwashed.
Considering how pretty much every person who could count to 10 without using fingers said it was a lie.
The Institute of Chartered Accountants stated that to set up the tax office ALONE would be over £600 million. Shows how far out everything would be. Also, it was supposed to be sorted by March this year. Yet they can tear the arse out of getting any public body set up...
Then you have the small issue over shipbuilding, In the scotland forum i was told by "goneanon" to either show evidence or apologize for spreading "unionist" lies over the fact that an idny scotland wouldn't get any MOD contracts.
He went rather quiet when i was able to quote and link, both the EU LAW that said so, and the MOD report stating the EU law and that it wouldn't happen.
We can go further with other industries that are interwoven to the UK, how the banks were ready to move away.
Look to Quebec for a painful example of what happens to the banking sector when faced with neverendums, the "brass plaques" left. But so did all the staff below them....
Finally, we can add to the mix of lies, bulls
t, causal racism and abuse the standard of the "yes" voter.I worked the vote, i've stated this many times. I live near Airdrie, in North Lanarkshire, 1 of 4 districts to vote "yes" 51-49. Tt has a long history of unemployment, drink and drugs abuse, on the previous page the link shows it as a sea of red, orange and yellow with some small blue areas.. I worked and saw first hand from 7am to 10pm the caliber of the yes voter, yes and snp badges, kilts, see you jimmy hats etc. All the stereotype crap came out.
Shame that most of them have never had to suffer the hardship of getting up in the morning to go to work, or getting up in the morning and facing a bar of soap, or Lynx shower gel or a tooth brush.
They were quite happy to vote knowing they would never have to shoulder the responsibility of actually having to work to cover the costs. That would be someone else's problem, the hand would still be out for claiming benefits as they were promised more of that. Not a job as that betters someone and we cant be having that can we?
Speaking of costs, the GERS reports were waved and quoted like mad by some, now they have shown the snp as a shower of useless scum who couldn't run a bath, they are suddenly not accurate and don't mean anything.
Funny how when reality hits, they ignore it, when 2 years ago it was held up as accurate and not to be tarnished or argued against.
It's fine though, lets not worry about the shambles of the Police, lets not worry about the massive failings of the NHS, lets not worry about the cut backs of local authorities. NLC has for the 5th year running had it's budget cut, £46million this time. They won't be laughing when the next wave of cuts hits us and the snp are shown to be the blame. Again. Let's not worry about the £15billion deficit. Let's not worry about the failing economy or the lack of use from the new powers.
Let's not worry about any of that. As long as we can find grievance in ANYTHING and use it to the failed cause of driving a wedge between us and our greatest trading partner.
I voted NO. Ask me again and i shall proudly vote NO.
A sad state for Scotland and it's shown to the world a darker side that should never exist in the 21st century.
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