Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
malks222 said:
I'm actually going to go with burger on this one- for convenience, speed, cleanliness, efficiency etc... the tram is an excellent way to get to/from the airport to/from the city centre.
for tourists its excellent- they leave the airport and can get onto a tram straight into Edinburgh city centre without any hassle or making sure they pick the right bus, just like we get/expect of most major cities around the world.
the only downside to all this was the cost- it really was not a cost effective project. the overall cost/ disruption totally outweighs any benefit in my eyes.
I have used the tram on quite a few occasions but that's only because I live within 5/10mins walk of princes street and only use it when going with carry on luggage. if theres 2 or more flying I would just get a taxi for £20 ish quid for the convenience of getting picked up from my flat, instead of the 2 of us walking up to town to then pay £10 for the tram.
That's a high cost £10tram v £20 door to door taxi. for tourists its excellent- they leave the airport and can get onto a tram straight into Edinburgh city centre without any hassle or making sure they pick the right bus, just like we get/expect of most major cities around the world.
the only downside to all this was the cost- it really was not a cost effective project. the overall cost/ disruption totally outweighs any benefit in my eyes.
I have used the tram on quite a few occasions but that's only because I live within 5/10mins walk of princes street and only use it when going with carry on luggage. if theres 2 or more flying I would just get a taxi for £20 ish quid for the convenience of getting picked up from my flat, instead of the 2 of us walking up to town to then pay £10 for the tram.
Edinburger said:
Land at the airport and get a bus to Gogarburn or Edinburgh Park or to the centre of Edinburgh. Then land at the airport again and get a tram to the same places and tell me what was the better experience.
As a Weegie, what you consistently fail to understand is that the visitor experience is incredibly important to Edinburgh's economy. And remember that, unlike Glasgow, the M8 doesn't run right through Edinburgh.
Ahhh, trams past Saughton and Stenhouse...fine visitor experience to the fine city of Edinburgh As a Weegie, what you consistently fail to understand is that the visitor experience is incredibly important to Edinburgh's economy. And remember that, unlike Glasgow, the M8 doesn't run right through Edinburgh.
You seem to look at Edinburgh Airport and the trams through rose tinted spectacles. Edinburgh airport is a cr@p experience now. Ignoring the dreadful security, unless you are in a lounge the terminal is nothing short of claustrophobic with so many eateries robbing floor space. The early BA flights are leaving off Gate 14, so a walk down stairs and across the apron rivalling Ryanair's finest. On Monday the BA plane was parked over the other side beside the freight terminal, so a 1/2 mile bus ride first and up a set of steps next to the freighters. It's simply too small for the flights it now has to handle. Not an issue with the independence debate, but it's not a great experience; it is no longer a great airport.
Edinburgh Gateway? What a con. If they'd put the rail halt half a mile further up the line it would have been on the perimeter of the airport and some form of cheap people-mover/walkway/pod system could have got you to the terminal. But no, they link it to the tram line. Tell me that's not just to boost tram usage figures at the expense of convenience to travellers. Anyone wanting to swap between tram and rail (and remember it's the Aberdeen line only) is surely just going to use Haymarket. This is primarily a halt to get you to the airport, but with a hidden agenda of unnecessarily having to bolster the tram system. Great, I should now be able to get public transport to and from the airport, but I'd be forced to use a bl00dy tram despite the train passing the end of the runway.
What about the rail interchange that was planned for underneath the airport? Superb scheme, and all approved too...but then canned.
You weren't the stand-out guy in the BA lounge on Monday in the kilt? Impressive moustache if it was.
malks222 said:
I'm actually going to go with burger on this one- for convenience, speed, cleanliness, efficiency etc... the tram is an excellent way to get to/from the airport to/from the city centre.
for tourists its excellent- they leave the airport and can get onto a tram straight into Edinburgh city centre without any hassle or making sure they pick the right bus, just like we get/expect of most major cities around the world.
the only downside to all this was the cost- it really was not a cost effective project. the overall cost/ disruption totally outweighs any benefit in my eyes.
I have used the tram on quite a few occasions but that's only because I live within 5/10mins walk of princes street and only use it when going with carry on luggage. if theres 2 or more flying I would just get a taxi for £20 ish quid for the convenience of getting picked up from my flat, instead of the 2 of us walking up to town to then pay £10 for the tram.
It's convenient because it starts/terminates close to the airport (not within it though, like so many other cities light rail solutions). for tourists its excellent- they leave the airport and can get onto a tram straight into Edinburgh city centre without any hassle or making sure they pick the right bus, just like we get/expect of most major cities around the world.
the only downside to all this was the cost- it really was not a cost effective project. the overall cost/ disruption totally outweighs any benefit in my eyes.
I have used the tram on quite a few occasions but that's only because I live within 5/10mins walk of princes street and only use it when going with carry on luggage. if theres 2 or more flying I would just get a taxi for £20 ish quid for the convenience of getting picked up from my flat, instead of the 2 of us walking up to town to then pay £10 for the tram.
It's bloody slow. You can damn nearly cycle quicker from the stop I use to my office which is yards away from the Princes Street platform.
Although it was a local Government project, it's yet another f
kup with massive overspend and dubious benefit, when the alternatives might not have been as sexy, but would probably have done more to improve the city. As many have said using the tram route as a dedicated bus road and replacing every bus in the city with modern hybrid versions would have been far more effective and cost much less.
To emphasise the state of Scottish Government Incompetence (SGI), they can't even get the enquiry into the debacle off the ground, years after the bloody project was finished.
tvrolet said:
Edinburgh Gateway? What a con. If they'd put the rail halt half a mile further up the line it would have been on the perimeter of the airport and some form of cheap people-mover/walkway/pod system could have got you to the terminal. But no, they link it to the tram line. Tell me that's not just to boost tram usage figures at the expense of convenience to travellers. Anyone wanting to swap between tram and rail (and remember it's the Aberdeen line only) is surely just going to use Haymarket. This is primarily a halt to get you to the airport, but with a hidden agenda of unnecessarily having to bolster the tram system. Great, I should now be able to get public transport to and from the airport, but I'd be forced to use a bl00dy tram despite the train passing the end of the runway.
What about the rail interchange that was planned for underneath the airport? Superb scheme, and all approved too...but then canned.
This. Utterly, absolutely and every day of the week. I've mentioned this several times in this thread (in fact every time the tram thing rears its head). This is the elephant in the room that exposes the ignorance of anyone who supports the tram system. The trams are a testament to incompetence/corruption as they were never the best solution available. The projected costs of the canned schemes were far less than both the trams' projected and actual costs.What about the rail interchange that was planned for underneath the airport? Superb scheme, and all approved too...but then canned.
We live in Glasgow, drove to Ingliston Park & Ride last August to get the tram in for the fringe shows we'd booked. Sat on it for 50 minutes until it got to the middle of Princes Street, almost missed the first show. The first few stops from Ingliston, the average speed must have been less than 10mph as it slowed to baby-crawl pace to go around corners. Don't know if that was the usual experience but we're not going to use it again.
They should have paved the tram route and built hover-buses, would have been cheaper, quicker and a lot more fun.
They should have paved the tram route and built hover-buses, would have been cheaper, quicker and a lot more fun.
Twilkes said:
We live in Glasgow, drove to Ingliston Park & Ride last August to get the tram in for the fringe shows we'd booked. Sat on it for 50 minutes until it got to the middle of Princes Street, almost missed the first show. The first few stops from Ingliston, the average speed must have been less than 10mph as it slowed to baby-crawl pace to go around corners. Don't know if that was the usual experience...
Absolutely typical. The crawling pace around the corners is because the curves' radii are at the absolute limit for the rolling stock at several points on the line, so they have to run at what is essentially shunting speed there.Edinburger said:
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
You couldn't be more wrong.
Are you saying they weren't a waste of money?What can they do/where can they go that buses can't?
As a Weegie, what you consistently fail to understand is that the visitor experience is incredibly important to Edinburgh's economy. And remember that, unlike Glasgow, the M8 doesn't run right through Edinburgh.
The Megga busses were superb, fast, comfortable, inexpensive and direct from Dundee to Glasgow and then down to Prestwick.
Your trams are a joke, bit like the isolated "tourist experience" as you so tellingly put it.
Sylvaforever said:
I used to commute from Dundee to Cottesmore every week..
The Megga busses were superb, fast, comfortable, inexpensive and direct from Dundee to Glasgow and then down to Prestwick.
Your trams are a joke, bit like the isolated "tourist experience" as you so tellingly put it.
If it's a Tourist experience - what volume and how many years are required to repay the capital outset? I'm guessing non tourist users should cover the ongoing running costs. The Megga busses were superb, fast, comfortable, inexpensive and direct from Dundee to Glasgow and then down to Prestwick.
Your trams are a joke, bit like the isolated "tourist experience" as you so tellingly put it.
Sylvaforever said:
I used to commute from Dundee to Cottesmore every week..
The Megga busses were superb, fast, comfortable, inexpensive and direct from Dundee to Glasgow and then down to Prestwick.
Your trams are a joke, bit like the isolated "tourist experience" as you so tellingly put it.
I used to catch the 6.45 Megabus from Perth to Glasgow, usually less than an hour and almost half the price of the train. Modern buses can be pretty good as long as you get a double seat, which I did 19 times out of 20 (not so much on the return journey). Passengers were 50% business commuters, 25% travellers, and seemingly 25% refugees who would cover themselves in coats and put their legs across the aisle in their flee from the cold of Aberdeen.The Megga busses were superb, fast, comfortable, inexpensive and direct from Dundee to Glasgow and then down to Prestwick.
Your trams are a joke, bit like the isolated "tourist experience" as you so tellingly put it.
Edited by Twilkes on Tuesday 4th October 13:34
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Free buses in Edinburgh for everyone for the best part of a decade... or an a tram route, noisy because it's on rails, requiring £billion+ investment cos it's on rails, can't get diverted cos it's on rails, throws unwitting cyclists off their bikes cos it's on rails...
I really do admire your desire to roll this giant turd in glitter since we're stuck with it Burger.
The parallels with your support for the SNP are uncanny. Trams and the SNP are:
Controversial/divisive
Loved or hated
Wasters of money
Noisy
Diverting money away from where it's required
Totally inflexible "one track" mind...
Failures in general.
You've managed to squeeze an anti-SNP line onto a rant about the trams - they weren't the SNP's baby. I really do admire your desire to roll this giant turd in glitter since we're stuck with it Burger.
The parallels with your support for the SNP are uncanny. Trams and the SNP are:
Controversial/divisive
Loved or hated
Wasters of money
Noisy
Diverting money away from where it's required
Totally inflexible "one track" mind...
Failures in general.
Edited by simoid on Monday 3rd October 22:27
Edited by simoid on Monday 3rd October 22:27
Don't you ever use the tram?
What does it matter if I use the trams? I'm taking an objective look at the situation.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Free buses in Edinburgh for everyone for the best part of a decade... or an a tram route, noisy because it's on rails, requiring £billion+ investment cos it's on rails, can't get diverted cos it's on rails, throws unwitting cyclists off their bikes cos it's on rails...
I really do admire your desire to roll this giant turd in glitter since we're stuck with it Burger.
The parallels with your support for the SNP are uncanny. Trams and the SNP are:
Controversial/divisive
Loved or hated
Wasters of money
Noisy
Diverting money away from where it's required
Totally inflexible "one track" mind...
Failures in general.
You've managed to squeeze an anti-SNP line onto a rant about the trams - they weren't the SNP's baby. I really do admire your desire to roll this giant turd in glitter since we're stuck with it Burger.
The parallels with your support for the SNP are uncanny. Trams and the SNP are:
Controversial/divisive
Loved or hated
Wasters of money
Noisy
Diverting money away from where it's required
Totally inflexible "one track" mind...
Failures in general.
Edited by simoid on Monday 3rd October 22:27
Edited by simoid on Monday 3rd October 22:27
Don't you ever use the tram?
What does it matter if I use the trams? I'm taking an objective look at the situation.
It's a thread about the Scottish independence debate.
However, it's morphed into an anti-Scotland and/or anti-SNP thread.
Scotland's share of UK tax receipts falls.
http://www.scottishfinancialnews.com/10374/scotlan...
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/disaggreg...
Wonder where mine are...
http://www.scottishfinancialnews.com/10374/scotlan...
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/disaggreg...
Wonder where mine are...
The only party to keeping banging the Indy drum is the snp so they will take the flak.
They continue to bring it up, claiming it will do all sorts, while every theory has been proven wrong.
They also say one thing, while do the other. See the NHS vote last week, even my own MSP abstained from voting to save Monklands A&E which was one of his election promises. I've emailed him asking why he's put toeing the party line before his constituents.
Still waiting for GoneAnon to come up with 3 of the powers the snp have used since they got handed them.
If they don't/won't use them. I would petition for them to be removed.
They continue to bring it up, claiming it will do all sorts, while every theory has been proven wrong.
They also say one thing, while do the other. See the NHS vote last week, even my own MSP abstained from voting to save Monklands A&E which was one of his election promises. I've emailed him asking why he's put toeing the party line before his constituents.
Still waiting for GoneAnon to come up with 3 of the powers the snp have used since they got handed them.
If they don't/won't use them. I would petition for them to be removed.
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