Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[wobert]

Edinburger said:

I don't know where to start on this.

I do

For the past 6 years I've worked between the UK and Eastern Europe.

My average monthly spend including flights (usually flag carriers e.g. Lufthansa, as opposed lo-cost airlines such as Ryanair etc) is c£2.5k.

This figure includes flights, hotels, food, fuel, hire cars, coffee etc. Pretty much everything Monday to Thursday as I work from home on a Friday.

So an average weekly spend of £577 per week averaged over a month.

So now tell me an increase of 75% over that is acceptable for an MP travelling down to London from Scotland?

I base my "opinion" on direct experience gained over the past 6 years, week in, week out.

I'm sure you'll be back to tell me I am wrong in the usual condescending manner :-)

Edited by wobert on Tuesday 29th November 16:18

[Edinburger]

wobert said:

Edinburger said:

I don't know where to start on this.

I do

For the past 6 years I've worked between the UK and Eastern Europe.

My average monthly spend including flights (usually flag carriers e.g. Lufthansa, as opposed lo-cost airlines such as Ryanair etc) is c£2.5k.

This figure includes flights, hotels, food, fuel, hire cars, coffee etc. Pretty much everything Monday to Thursday as I work from home on a Friday.

So an average weekly spend of £577 per week averaged over a month.

So now tell me an increase of 75% over that is acceptable for an MP travelling down to London from Scotland?

I base my "opinion" on direct experience gained over the past 6 years, week in, week out.

I'm sure you'll be back to tell me I am wrong in the usual condescending manner :-)

Edited by wobert on Tuesday 29th November 16:18

I'm not condescending on the slightest!

I'my comment was from simoid suggesting "a few quid" on airport car parking.

I travel Edinburgh - London virtually every week so I'd suggest on average it'll be closer to:

Return flexible flights peak times at short notice - £300-£400

Airport parking - £50 per day

HE/Taxis - £100 per day

Accommodation - £200-£300 per night

Meals - £100 per day

That's absolutely not unreasonable nor excessive in central London.

As to why the total costs have increased year on year - MPs attending parliament more, referendums, etc.

Agree?

[technodup]

Edinburger said:

Return flexible flights peak times at short notice - £300-£400

Airport parking - £50 per day

HE/Taxis - £100 per day

Accommodation - £200-£300 per night

Meals - £100 per day

That's absolutely not unreasonable nor excessive in central London.

That's completely unreasonable. They have a selection of (heavily) subsidised eateries for a start. HTF can you spend £100 on chips and Irn Bru?

For a four day stint airport parking at GLA is £100 give or take, so again you're twice what is reasonable.

Either way all this expenses stuff is by the by. What is important is what they have achieved, and by my reckoning and in spite of having 56 of them that's essentially fk all.

[Garvin]

andymadmak said:

Previous decisions by HMG had been to focus all naval ship building in Scotland. Other facilities in the UK have been run down or closed in order to facilitate this.
During the Indie referendum campaign it was pointed out that, aside from time of extreme conflict such as WW2, the UK has never built capital ships for the Navy in a foreign yard. It was therefore logical to suppose that if Scotland did vote to be independent then the work going to the Clyde from HMG would dry up.
The SNP repeatedly poo posed the idea that the UK would not continue to give Scottish yards all the naval work, suggesting that the UK would have no where else too go, and asserting that hundreds of years of historical precedent would be ignored in favour of Scotland.

Many of us pointed out that MPs in rUK constituencies with an interest in naval ship building (for example Portsmouth, Plymouth, Merseyside, Tyneside) would be eyeing the prospects of bringing those skilled jobs back home if Scotland voted for independence.
It was pointed out that it would take time to re-establish these alternate options.
The granting of the Type 26 contract to the Clyde is sensible. Those ships are needed quickly and HMG has to honour the promise it made before the referendum that a vote to remain in the UK would allow that order to go ahead.
The announcement that the Type 31s will be built (at least in part) elsewhere in the UK is concrete evidence in my opinion that HMG is now looking to widen its naval ship building options for the future. In other words it will not be held hostage by the Nats.
Of course, it is only my opinion, but I think it is clear that if there was not continued uncertainty over the position of Scotland within the Union then the Type 31 contract would also have gone to the Clyde.
The Type 31s are reported to be a simpler, general purpose type frigate. Perfect then for rUK yards to re-acquire the skills they dropped when Scotland was the centre of UK naval ship building.

You may of course disagree - but if what I assert does not at least have some merit, why would HMG not simply award the Type 31 contract to Scotland?

I can tell you that in the run up to the independence vote MoD were arranging things such that only the first three T26 frigates were going to be built on the Clyde!

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

I'm not condescending on the slightest!

I'my comment was from simoid suggesting "a few quid" on airport car parking.

I travel Edinburgh - London virtually every week so I'd suggest on average it'll be closer to:

Return flexible flights peak times at short notice - £300-£400

Airport parking - £50 per day

HE/Taxis - £100 per day

Accommodation - £200-£300 per night

Meals - £100 per day

That's absolutely not unreasonable nor excessive in central London.

As to why the total costs have increased year on year - MPs attending parliament more, referendums, etc.

Agree?

So I wasn't miles out for travel costs.

I said:

Anyway, I would expect to get from my home to London for £300 in almost any circumstance. And then £300 back. Am I miles out?

Mileage to airport: a few quid
Car parking: a few quid per day
Expensive flight: £200 or so
Taxi to Westminster: probably £50 at a guess.

[NoNeed]

I don't know why we pay for politicians food, why do we? we pay them wages so they can buy what they need, that's how it should work.

[B'stard Child]

NoNeed said:

I don't know why we pay for politicians food, why do we? we pay them wages so they can buy what they need, that's how it should work.

if you are working away from home you should be titled to some allowance after all you can't buy a meal for the same price as you can make it at home.....

Hang on - didn't these people "apply" for jobs in Westminster?

Now if you make a life choice to live in Scotland and then work in London isn't that your own stupid fault - either move closer to the job or find another job closer to home

[Stickyfinger]

B'stard Child said:

if you are working away from home you should be titled to some allowance after all you can't buy a meal for the same price as you can make it at home.....

Hang on - didn't these people "apply" for jobs in Westminster?

Now if you make a life choice to live in Scotland and then work in London isn't that your own stupid fault - either move closer to the job or find another job closer to home

Or eat in the subsidised "canteen"

[B'stard Child]

Stickyfinger said:

B'stard Child said:

if you are working away from home you should be titled to some allowance after all you can't buy a meal for the same price as you can make it at home.....

Hang on - didn't these people "apply" for jobs in Westminster?

Now if you make a life choice to live in Scotland and then work in London isn't that your own stupid fault - either move closer to the job or find another job closer to home

Or eat in the subsidised "canteen"

Not much of a saving compared to making them pay for their own travel costs is it

[B'stard Child]

From the Irish potential exit thread

Hainey said:

It seems wee Nippy Nikki got quite the messages of support for her 'struggle' for independence by the speaking Senators at the Irish parliament today. Interesting.

This was more interesting

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/29/snp-acc...

SNP spend on remain in EU referendum campaign £90,830 (out of max allowable £700,000)

Pub chain spend on leave in EU referendum campaign £94,585

SNP spend on unsuccessfully fighting the Glenrothes by-election for Westminster in 2008 £98,597

Well they really pulled out all the stops on the remain campaign didn't they - I think perhaps Corbyn's contribution was slightly more effective

Why on earth would they not throw all effort into a campaign to ensure the UK remained as they seem so keen to ensure Scotland stays in the EU now we are leaving

Oh - I haven't thought this thro have I?

[Corpulent Tosser]

B'stard Child said:

Why on earth would they not throw all effort into a campaign to ensure the UK remained as they seem so keen to ensure Scotland stays in the EU now we are leaving

Oh - I haven't thought this thro have I?

Maybe because they were confident the Scottish voters would overwhelmingly vote remain anyway and they didn't need to spend money there.

[wobert]

Edinburger said:

wobert said:

Edinburger said:

I don't know where to start on this.

I do

For the past 6 years I've worked between the UK and Eastern Europe.

My average monthly spend including flights (usually flag carriers e.g. Lufthansa, as opposed lo-cost airlines such as Ryanair etc) is c£2.5k.

This figure includes flights, hotels, food, fuel, hire cars, coffee etc. Pretty much everything Monday to Thursday as I work from home on a Friday.

So an average weekly spend of £577 per week averaged over a month.

So now tell me an increase of 75% over that is acceptable for an MP travelling down to London from Scotland?

I base my "opinion" on direct experience gained over the past 6 years, week in, week out.

I'm sure you'll be back to tell me I am wrong in the usual condescending manner :-)

Edited by wobert on Tuesday 29th November 16:18

I'm not condescending on the slightest!

I'my comment was from simoid suggesting "a few quid" on airport car parking.

I travel Edinburgh - London virtually every week so I'd suggest on average it'll be closer to:

Return flexible flights peak times at short notice - £300-£400

Airport parking - £50 per day

HE/Taxis - £100 per day

Accommodation - £200-£300 per night

Meals - £100 per day

That's absolutely not unreasonable nor excessive in central London.

As to why the total costs have increased year on year - MPs attending parliament more, referendums, etc.

Agree?

£50 per day car parking at the airport......???

At Manchester I can use the meet and greet for four days for £50 or so depending on time of year, or if I go to the multi storey it's around £35-40 for the same.

£100 per day for taxis, why not use the tube, that's what I do when in the big smoke....

I'm clearly doing it wrong, or perhaps working for a private company means I have to cut my cloth to suit the budget and not freewheel it at the tax payers expense... :-)

[BlackLabel]

simoid said:

Everything's better in Scotland, eh. Let's not mention that the SNP go through transport ministers like bog roll for some reason, and our train services are never actually out of the news.

It beggars belief that our last transport minister actually got a promotion and is now finance secretary. Derek Mackay dropped out of Uni to "concentrate on local politics', became a councillor at 21 and hasn't had a proper job outside of the SNP and politics since.

Mackay has no financial qualification of any description. He would not be qualified to run the finances of a school or a hospital yet he is in charge of the finances of all of Scotland.

[Welshbeef]

BlackLabel said:

It beggars belief that our last transport minister actually got a promotion and is now finance secretary. Derek Mackay dropped out of Uni to "concentrate on local politics', became a councillor at 21 and hasn't had a proper job outside of the SNP and politics since.

Mackay has no financial qualification of any description. He would not be qualified to run the finances of a school or a hospital yet he is in charge of the finances of all of Scotland.

To be fair that's true of many finance ministers.

McDonnel now what qualifications does he have hmm

[DocJock]

It appears that even her supporters are getting fed up with her rhetoric.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/support...

[saabster14]

simoid said:

andymadmak said:

saabster14 said:

andymadmak said:

I see that the UK Government is sensibly taking steps to reduce its reliance on naval ship building on the Clyde. The Type 31s will be built (at least in part) elsewhere in the UK.
I seem to remember that I predicted this very thing - it is a direct consequence of the continued uncertainty surrounding Scotlands place in the Union. Skilled jobs are now being lost on the Clyde because of the SNP and its supporters.

you say that as is if it's fact. do you have anything to support the claim of direct consequence?

Previous decisions by HMG had been to focus all naval ship building in Scotland. Other facilities in the UK have been run down or closed in order to facilitate this.
During the Indie referendum campaign it was pointed out that, aside from time of extreme conflict such as WW2, the UK has never built capital ships for the Navy in a foreign yard. It was therefore logical to suppose that if Scotland did vote to be independent then the work going to the Clyde from HMG would dry up.
The SNP repeatedly poo posed the idea that the UK would not continue to give Scottish yards all the naval work, suggesting that the UK would have no where else too go, and asserting that hundreds of years of historical precedent would be ignored in favour of Scotland.

Many of us pointed out that MPs in rUK constituencies with an interest in naval ship building (for example Portsmouth, Plymouth, Merseyside, Tyneside) would be eyeing the prospects of bringing those skilled jobs back home if Scotland voted for independence.
It was pointed out that it would take time to re-establish these alternate options.
The granting of the Type 26 contract to the Clyde is sensible. Those ships are needed quickly and HMG has to honour the promise it made before the referendum that a vote to remain in the UK would allow that order to go ahead.
The announcement that the Type 31s will be built (at least in part) elsewhere in the UK is concrete evidence in my opinion that HMG is now looking to widen its naval ship building options for the future. In other words it will not be held hostage by the Nats.
Of course, it is only my opinion, but I think it is clear that if there was not continued uncertainty over the position of Scotland within the Union then the Type 31 contract would also have gone to the Clyde.
The Type 31s are reported to be a simpler, general purpose type frigate. Perfect then for rUK yards to re-acquire the skills they dropped when Scotland was the centre of UK naval ship building.

You may of course disagree - but if what I assert does not at least have some merit, why would HMG not simply award the Type 31 contract to Scotland?

I think saabster is asking about a source of information about "reduction of reliance shipbuilding on the Clyde" as opposed to any post-Armageddonindependence contracts...?

interesting report on BBC Scotland 6pm news report about this very subject:

BAE reportedly saying that location of type 31 builds will depend on the timing. Might just be PR bullst, might be true?

[r11co]

Welshbeef said:

To be fair that's true of many finance ministers.

McDonnel now what qualifications does he have hmm

The problem though is that the SNP keep rotating the same no-hopers around their departments. Mike Russell the 'Scottish Brexit Minister' (non-job of course) left his post in Education in disgrace after presiding over the disastrous implementation of the new Scottish curriculum and exam system.

Fiona Hyslop, Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Tourism and External Affairs and Russell's predecessor I have already mentioned (resigned before facing a vote of no confidence).

Angela Constance, Cabinet Secretary for Communities, Social Security and Equalities, was Russell's successor but moved sideways when it became blatantly apparent that she could not string a coherent sentence together.

Sturgeon herself was a failure in charge of health, and was on the verge of losing her job for attempting to subvert the Scottish justice system.

Humza Yousaf proves on a daily basis he is useless in his post.

About the only competent one out of the lot of them is John Swinney and that is down to his work ethic and that he is neither a 'Johnny-come-lately' to the party (Yousaf et al) or a crony of Sturgeon (Hyslop, Constance, Robison).

[Hainey]

Speaking both as a Scotsman and proudly Ex Royal Navy, I personally would like these vessels to be built in other locations throughout the UK.

This is nothing to do with politics, but all to do with spreading the skills base so that should Scottish Independence ever happen, the RoUK doesn't find itself on the back end of the drag curve with no native ability in possession of a current skill set who can build the vessels the RN requires. This pandering to the politics of the SNP and the workers on the Clyde at the expense of the security of the UK as a whole is a damned nonsense and I'll vote for whatever politician that stands up to it.

We have seen the very positive effect on the local economy with Appledore Shipyard in the South West and their small contract to build bow sections and flight deck sections for the QE carriers, and I think that should be expanded in the area. Then again, I give as much of a damn about kids having parents with jobs that live in Gloucester as I do in Glasgow, unlike the SNP.

It's only 50 years since Devenport dockyard could close its gates, and with the labour and stores already within could manufacture from scratch a Type 12 frigate. We might never reach those heights again but this current policy of all eggs in one basket is a bloody nonsense.

[simoid]

BlackLabel said:

It beggars belief that our last transport minister actually got a promotion and is now finance secretary. Derek Mackay dropped out of Uni to "concentrate on local politics', became a councillor at 21 and hasn't had a proper job outside of the SNP and politics since.

Mackay has no financial qualification of any description. He would not be qualified to run the finances of a school or a hospital yet he is in charge of the finances of all of Scotland.

I did say a few times on this thread I wouldn't trust the SNP to run my golf club

[B'stard Child]

simoid said:

BlackLabel said:

It beggars belief that our last transport minister actually got a promotion and is now finance secretary. Derek Mackay dropped out of Uni to "concentrate on local politics', became a councillor at 21 and hasn't had a proper job outside of the SNP and politics since.

Mackay has no financial qualification of any description. He would not be qualified to run the finances of a school or a hospital yet he is in charge of the finances of all of Scotland.

I did say a few times on this thread I wouldn't trust the SNP to run my golf club

I wouldn't trust them to run a bath...........