Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[FN2TypeR]

Lies, it'll be fine *puts feet up*

[hidetheelephants]

There's a detail-free article in the Herald today about some academics who've decided that Scotland is bound to be accepted into the bosom of the EU as EU politicians aren't meanies like the tories, the copenhagen criteria will be fudged and everyone will live happily ever after.

[Silverbullet767]

Well, I don't know about you lot. But I'm convinced.

What's the worst that could happen...

[Rick_1138]

NoNeed said:

I love Andrew Neil

[r11co]

Why it’s harder for the poorest to succeed at university under the SNP.

The figures speak for themselves - the SNP have funded universal benefits by taking away targeted ones. The party that stood on a platform of social justice and was elected as an alternative to their 'Red Tories' narrative.

Charlatans of the worst order. At least other parties are clear about their position on welfare and progressive taxation. The SNP talk of 'vile Tories' yet pull tricks far worse.

'Burger - still waiting for your response on the SNP's objectively dire record on education.....

[simoid]

I have a few friends who can't see past the "free university is brilliant" ruse.

[r11co]

simoid said:

I have a few friends who can't see past the "free university is brilliant" ruse.

No offence to your friends, but the Salmond soundbite will sound better to people who are hard of thinking. Double-whammy for the SNP - make education worse so that people are too stupid to be able to see through their blatant lies.

[Troubleatmill]

Business for Scotland.... The lion that rips the arse out of the Institute of Directors.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13177133.In_ful...

Read that list of captains of industry - and wet yourself at their global awesomeness..


Or you might just find...they are a rag tag bunch of bad bag one man bands....

[Cobnapint]

r11co said:

Double-whammy for the SNP - make education worse so that people are too stupid to be able to see through their blatant lies.

You might just have uncovered their master plan.

[simoid]

r11co said:

No offence to your friends, but the Salmond soundbite will sound better to people who are hard of thinking. Double-whammy for the SNP - make education worse so that people are too stupid to be able to see through their blatant lies.

Aye. They know my view and I've shared articles and what not for them to read. In particular about the cuts in bursaries, the decline in Scotland's education generally and how English low income students get on better than ours.

Deaf ears.

[technodup]

Troubleatmill said:

Read that list of captains of industry - and wet yourself at their global awesomeness..


Or you might just find...they are a rag tag bunch of bad bag one man bands....

A good boycott list there. There's at least a few people I know on it. One of whom has a small shop who I know for a fact only makes any money because the actual unit has been in the family forever. Were he to pay rent he'd be out of business.

Between him and the various wee bakeries and gas engineers it looks more like a networking group than anything else. Which would be fine if they kept it to that and stopped the stupid press releases.

[Welshbeef]

r11co said:

Why it’s harder for the poorest to succeed at university under the SNP.

The figures speak for themselves - the SNP have funded universal benefits by taking away targeted ones. The party that stood on a platform of social justice and was elected as an alternative to their 'Red Tories' narrative.

Charlatans of the worst order. At least other parties are clear about their position on welfare and progressive taxation. The SNP talk of 'vile Tories' yet pull tricks far worse.

'Burger - still waiting for your response on the SNP's objectively dire record on education.....

Has Burger responded to this one yet?

[Silverbullet767]

Welshbeef said:

Has Burger responded to this one yet?

He'll ignore it and post another link to a story from a SNP sympathiser painting the SNP in a good light while writing 'interesting' underneath it.

[wc98]

r11co said:

Michelle Thomson will be flipping a few more reposessed houses to fund that then. I wonder how 'Business for Scotland' patrons are coping with the 300%+ rates rises in some cases, or are they getting 'exemptions', or could it be that none of them are actually real business people?

A total non-story. Thinly-veiled propaganda wing of the SNP repeats the party narrative in a press release. Nothing more and nothing less.

Edited by r11co on Sunday 19th February 16:08

as much as i agree if it were not for the complete waste of money i would love to see another referendum in 2018. it would put the nats right back in their box as support appears to be plummeting now people realise just what a dire job they are doing of running the country (more like running it into the ground).

[Big Rod]

wc98 said:

as much as i agree if it were not for the complete waste of money i would love to see another referendum in 2018. it would put the nats right back in their box as support appears to be plummeting now people realise just what a dire job they are doing of running the country (more like running it into the ground).

Strange that many of my independence supporting acquaintances seem to think that support is growing.

Not seeing it myself.

[r11co]

Big Rod said:

Strange that many of my independence supporting acquaintances seem to think that support is growing.

These are the same people who will quote the same soundbites ('vile Tories', 'our overlords') and turn in the same social media circles as each other, so are just perceiving the echoes they are hearing as growing support.

Some might say the same is true of this thread, but continuous polling samples show the same steadfast results - that support for independence is stuck around the 40-45% mark at best. I honestly thought support for independence would erode quicker, but one thing I do perceive is that more independence supporters are becoming disenfranchised with the SNP because of reasons various but not limited to disagreement with their stance over the EU, the hypocrisy and ineptitude of their personnel, and their total lack of engagement with issues at local level because they are too busy fighting phoney wars over the constitution and international issues.

Hopefully that will reverse the situation of the pro-union vote being split across parties while pro-indy is united behind the SNP. Even small splits in the ranks will undermine the SNP's power, as is already happening in the Scottish parliament. The 'broad church' of support behind the SNP has become fractured in the past few days thanks to the business rates re-evaluation and the tax-concession given to the Greens in return for the budget being passed. Several large party donors are seriously reconsidering their support....

I'm still of the opinion though that this 'call for indyref 2' that is supposed to be only weeks away now is yet more bluff and bluster. The hook is being dangled again in advance of the local council elections to distract from the rates/council tax/education fiascos.

Edited by r11co on Tuesday 21st February 12:16

[FN2TypeR]

Big Rod said:

wc98 said:

as much as i agree if it were not for the complete waste of money i would love to see another referendum in 2018. it would put the nats right back in their box as support appears to be plummeting now people realise just what a dire job they are doing of running the country (more like running it into the ground).

Strange that many of my independence supporting acquaintances seem to think that support is growing.

Not seeing it myself.

I don't think it's shrinking either - static at best I'd say.

[roadtripboy]

r11co said:

Why it’s harder for the poorest to succeed at university under the SNP.

I think they are capitalising on the Scottish psyche here. In the new SNP heartlands of the West of Scotland, most people don't move away for university, preferring to stay nice and safe at home with Mummy and Daddy and socialising with the same group of people they have done since they were 5. (Anyone who has spent any time of the West of Scotland will know the type - "I'd miss everyone if I moved away!")

They love their free tuition fees, but fail to realise they could make university a much better experience if bursaries for living costs to move elsewhere were available. I suppose it fits that by not widening their social circle, or experiencing life in other, more diverse, parts of Scotland, they don't widen their horizons to alternative political beliefs. Though it is rather ironic that their chief retort to those who aren't pro-independence is that they are too scared.

In my experience, even fewer now move away than when I left school, which is sad.

[Alpacaman]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alex-salmond...

So Alex Salmond now thinks the term "Yoon" is an acceptable one for an elected MP to use? He clearly thinks it is acceptable to insult over 2 million residents of Scotland and for their supporters to do the same. As for the media being biased, there hardly seems to be anyone either on BBC or STV who actually press the SNP for answers, perhaps due to the "joyous" mob that descended on the BBC during the referendum because someone asked fatty a question.

[Twilkes]

roadtripboy said:

In the new SNP heartlands of the West of Scotland, most people don't move away for university

I recognise this in Glasgow, although Glasgow does have three darn good universities (well, two and Cali).

Do Scottish students have to pay tuition fees in England and Wales? It would be a shame if the differential in funding meant that Scottish students immediately discounted the wealth of universities in the cities and towns of Down South.

Am curious what percentage of English students choose to study in Scotland and vice versa - if it's say 5% in both cases, the English students in Scotland would be much more noticeable than the Scots in England, which is pretty much the case from my university experience.