Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[andymadmak]

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

And who will decide what defines an "absentee landlord"? You're not out of the Mugabe woods yet.

Your last point illustrates typical (hard of) Nat thinking. Given that the the UK is currently a signatory to the HRA, and the ECHR is currently part of the UK legal system can you explain what landowners should do other than use the ECHR? No doubt there will be a new system one day, and the landowners will surely use that, but until then are they not allowed to use the existing system, lest you find it "amusing"?

Edited by andymadmak on Friday 26th June 09:02

[andymadmak]

Strocky said:

AC43 said:

Last time I want to the Highlands I was struck by the fact that loads of the shops and small businesses were being run by English these days.........

Do the SNP want their money and hard work or not?

Mostly people who decided they would be financially better off by selling off their property down South (at a good profit) and relocate to work/semi retire

Your assumption that there is some whole scale persecution by the SNP or their supporters against English business owners is ludicrous and offensive

Who said "whole scale"? You are the only person saying that. But you know that already don't you. Just as you know that verbal attacks, abuse, and physical attacks against rUK people (in particular the English) in Scotland are steadily rising. But hey, there are no American tanks in Baghdad right?!

Oh and extra points for late use of the victim card there. Well done. Be offended all you like, the truth tends to have that effect on Nats.

[Leithen]

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

Commendable? I'm touched that you approve of my contribution to Scotland's economy. You'll perhaps understand however my disinclination to seek approval from those who don't have a first clue about the rural economy. Sadly it appears that the same said people are in charge of the rural economy, which doesn't engender confidence in many of us.

Who are these "Absentee Landlords" with land "in Trust"? It's a wonderful Dickensian image that of course instills loathing and dislike. But if land is owned by an individual, a number of individuals, a partnership, a trust (John Muir ring any bells?), a company, what difference does it make? If the land is of a certain size or larger, it will inevitably be managed by either an in house operation or factors. Is there really a lack of investment, or development being held back by such ownership? What alternative will provide more?

My experience is that the biggest block on development in the Highlands is local government and the associated nationwide agencies. Try and get permission to build a house on the West Coast - planning restrictions will stop you, not the availability of land.

Affordable housing is clearly a priority, especially in the more remote regions. But without jobs, it's redundant. The inward investment you seem to want already exists, but for whatever reason the Land Reform Bill seems happy to jeopardise it. Invest in small farming? What does that mean? More crofts? For a government that wants the living wage to be adopted it's plainly contradictory.

Why should I have anything "to worry about"? I'm Scottish, I've invested heavily in the country, provide employment for many people, paid my taxes. Why the juddering fk should any citizen of this country have anything "to worry about"?

Land grabs in insalubrious circumstances? The history of the Clan system in Scotland isn't the Tartan wonderland that we like to sell to our tourists. it was brutal, bloody and so far removed from anything we understand now that complaints about the consequences are a waste of time. Should the English revisit the Norman Invasion and attempt to right the wrongs of the Norman conquest, where land was stripped from nearly all Anglo Saxon owners and redistributed? Of course not.

The Land Reform Bill is politically motivated - it doesn't offer answers to the real issues faced by the larger part of the Scottish landmass. Taxing "sporting estates" in the midst of a Deer population crisis encapsulates the failure to tackle the problems that really face us. Increasing population in the Highlands and Islands needs forward thinking and the encouragement of investment from all sources.

[AstonZagato]

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

So will people who have buy-to-let houses in Scotland be forced to sell off their gardens to their neighbours at below market prices if their neighbours want to build affordable houses on them? If not, why not?

[gofasterrosssco]

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

You are missing the point, in that it's the message it sends to potential purchasers of land (i.e. investors) that if their land subsequently becomes 'of perceived use' in the future, for whatever political / economic / social reasons, they will be obliged to sell..

The government should play on the same playing field as commercial investors when it comes to land purchase. I wonder if this was in place during the time the Scottish Gov. approved Trump to build his golf course up here, that the tenants that have refused to move, would have been moved on anyway...

[AstonZagato]

And how do you "invest" in a mountain? What high-technology farming methods can be used on 45deg slopes?

Building affordable homes in the highlands? What jobs are there for the occupants? Or are they to be cheap dachas for the SNP politburo - with the jobs being created as their servants.

FFS, someone save us from the metropolitan elite who think they understand the countryside.

[Strocky]

andymadmak said:

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

And who will decide what defines an "absentee landlord"? You're not out of the Mugabe woods yet.

Your last point illustrates typical (hard of) Nat thinking. Given that the the UK is currently a signatory to the HRA, and the ECHR is currently part of the UK legal system can you explain what landowners should do other than use the ECHR? No doubt there will be a new system one day, and the landowners will surely use that, but until then are they not allowed to use the existing system, lest you find it "amusing"?

Edited by andymadmak on Friday 26th June 09:02

I did say I found it "amusing" not that they shouldn't use the legal mechanisms at their disposal, so I don't know where you got your wee tirade from

[Strocky]

andymadmak said:

Strocky said:

AC43 said:

Last time I want to the Highlands I was struck by the fact that loads of the shops and small businesses were being run by English these days.........

Do the SNP want their money and hard work or not?

Mostly people who decided they would be financially better off by selling off their property down South (at a good profit) and relocate to work/semi retire

Your assumption that there is some whole scale persecution by the SNP or their supporters against English business owners is ludicrous and offensive

Who said "whole scale"? You are the only person saying that. But you know that already don't you. Just as you know that verbal attacks, abuse, and physical attacks against rUK people (in particular the English) in Scotland are steadily rising. But hey, there are no American tanks in Baghdad right?!

Oh and extra points for late use of the victim card there. Well done. Be offended all you like, the truth tends to have that effect on Nats.

I've asked several times when posters have postulated as to what sort of numbers we're talking when a few examples are posted (usually from the Daily Mail or the Telegraph), to date, no figures have been forthcoming

[Strocky]

AstonZagato said:

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

So will people who have buy-to-let houses in Scotland be forced to sell off their gardens to their neighbours at below market prices if their neighbours want to build affordable houses on them? If not, why not?

Have you seen the size of your average garden in the B2L areas, be luck to build a Wendy House never mind a new build

[Strocky]

AstonZagato said:

And how do you "invest" in a mountain? What high-technology farming methods can be used on 45deg slopes?

Building affordable homes in the highlands? What jobs are there for the occupants? Or are they to be cheap dachas for the SNP politburo - with the jobs being created as their servants.

FFS, someone save us from the metropolitan elite who think they understand the countryside.

Watch the hot wind your posting doesn't maim your straw man

[Timmy40]

Strocky said:

AstonZagato said:

And how do you "invest" in a mountain? What high-technology farming methods can be used on 45deg slopes?

Building affordable homes in the highlands? What jobs are there for the occupants? Or are they to be cheap dachas for the SNP politburo - with the jobs being created as their servants.

FFS, someone save us from the metropolitan elite who think they understand the countryside.

Watch the hot wind your posting doesn't maim your straw man

So have you actually got a useful reply to what he said? Or a you the one who is simply full of hot air.

[AstonZagato]

Strocky said:

AstonZagato said:

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

So will people who have buy-to-let houses in Scotland be forced to sell off their gardens to their neighbours at below market prices if their neighbours want to build affordable houses on them? If not, why not?

Have you seen the size of your average garden in the B2L areas, be luck to build a Wendy House never mind a new build

But the principle will still apply, right?

[Justayellowbadge]

AstonZagato said:

But the principle will still apply, right?

I suspect the legislation will exclude curtilage.

[AstonZagato]

Largest estates in Scotland:


Population density of Scotland


Topographic map of Scoland.


Notice the correlation?


Finally, unoccupied dwellings:



Suggests that there is not a lot of demand for more housing in those areas.

Except for second homes:

Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 26th June 13:07

[AC43]

Strocky said:

andymadmak said:

Strocky said:

AC43 said:

Last time I want to the Highlands I was struck by the fact that loads of the shops and small businesses were being run by English these days.........

Do the SNP want their money and hard work or not?

Mostly people who decided they would be financially better off by selling off their property down South (at a good profit) and relocate to work/semi retire

Your assumption that there is some whole scale persecution by the SNP or their supporters against English business owners is ludicrous and offensive

Who said "whole scale"? You are the only person saying that. But you know that already don't you. Just as you know that verbal attacks, abuse, and physical attacks against rUK people (in particular the English) in Scotland are steadily rising. But hey, there are no American tanks in Baghdad right?!

Oh and extra points for late use of the victim card there. Well done. Be offended all you like, the truth tends to have that effect on Nats.

I've asked several times when posters have postulated as to what sort of numbers we're talking when a few examples are posted (usually from the Daily Mail or the Telegraph), to date, no figures have been forthcoming

Well for the first quarter century of my life I lived in Scotland and heard anti-English rhetoric virtually every single day.

If you're old enough to remember Naked Video they had a character whose entire persona was based an English hater. It's nothing new.

Anyway, the SNP have hardly been trying to pour oil on troubled water since then. In fact, like most Nationalist parties, they have been trying to find and accentuate differences.

The various branches of my family and my wife's family still there all tell me it's pretty nasty at times.

Except, that is, for the lone Nat-supporting one who seems to think everything is fine.

[Strocky]

AstonZagato said:

Strocky said:

AstonZagato said:

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

So will people who have buy-to-let houses in Scotland be forced to sell off their gardens to their neighbours at below market prices if their neighbours want to build affordable houses on them? If not, why not?

Have you seen the size of your average garden in the B2L areas, be luck to build a Wendy House never mind a new build

But the principle will still apply, right?

We're talking about a reform and not a principle, but hey ho lets take it to ludicrous levels

[Justayellowbadge]

AstonZagato said:

Largest estates in Scotland:


Population density of Scotland


Topographic map of Scoland.


Notice the correlation?


Finally, unoccupied dwellings:



Suggests that there is not a lot of demand for more housing in those areas.

Except for second homes:

Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 26th June 13:07

It clearly shows the good people of Scotland can't live in their own countryside because it's all owned by bd English landowners or bd English second homers.

[Strocky]

AC43 said:

Well for the first quarter century of my life I lived in Scotland and heard anti-English rhetoric virtually every single day.

If you're old enough to remember Naked Video they had a character whose entire persona was based an English hater. It's nothing new.

Anyway, the SNP have hardly been trying to pour oil on troubled water since then. In fact, like most Nationalist parties, they have been trying to find and accentuate differences.

The various branches of my family and my wife's family still there all tell me it's pretty nasty at times.

Except, that is, for the lone Nat-supporting one who seems to think everything is fine.

So that's 1 in the English hatred ledger column

I don't remember the character you mention from NV, but I do remember McGlashan from Absolutely which was more of a piss take of the character than the English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MnD7q7EFt0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaJPOVGlEPs

[AstonZagato]

Strocky said:

AstonZagato said:

Strocky said:

AstonZagato said:

Strocky said:

Very commendable, however as far as I can see, the land reform act would be a tool to force absentee landlords who hold large swathes of land in trust to either get off their arses and invest or allow (if there is an appetite) the local community to invest in affordable housing or small farming

In your case you would have nothing to worry about as you are utilising the land

There also are some landowners whose fore-bearers grabbed land in less than a salubrious manner

But shrieking "Mugabe landgrabs" is more headline grabbing than the proposed reality

I do find it amusing when Scottish Tory voting Landowners shriek about using the ECHR to fight the proposed reform as their party is trying their best to repeal the HRA

So will people who have buy-to-let houses in Scotland be forced to sell off their gardens to their neighbours at below market prices if their neighbours want to build affordable houses on them? If not, why not?

Have you seen the size of your average garden in the B2L areas, be luck to build a Wendy House never mind a new build

But the principle will still apply, right?

We're talking about a reform and not a principle, but hey ho lets take it to ludicrous levels

But why reform only one type of landlord? If absentee landlords are bad, reform them all. Force them all to invest or force them to sell off to the community.

[AstonZagato]

Justayellowbadge said:

AstonZagato said:

Largest estates in Scotland:


Population density of Scotland


Topographic map of Scoland.


Notice the correlation?


Finally, unoccupied dwellings:



Suggests that there is not a lot of demand for more housing in those areas.

Except for second homes:

Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 26th June 13:07

It clearly shows the good people of Scotland can't live in their own countryside because it's all owned by bd English landowners or bd English second homers.

Yeah, and those bd English landowners have built mountains to make it difficult for the proud Scots to get there too.

The land reform proposals also ought to include a plan to demolish the Highlands. That'll show the English bds.

Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 26th June 13:52